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Has capitalism increased hatred in the human race?

Has capitalism increased hatred in the human race?

  • Total voters
    67
MildSteel said:
No, I think it is appropriate to have that discussion in another thread because it is rather involved, and not only that, this one is a rather involved topic itself.
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While I would admit that it's an involved discussion, I suspect that all you want here in this thread is a reaffirmation of your basic premise which is that capitalism causes an increase in hatred in humans, and frankly, I think that's not the case. The people will bring to capitalism what's in their hearts and minds. Capitalism doesn't cause humans to hate, nor to love, nor to empathize, or not. How do you justify the attributing an emotional response to an economic system?

MildSteel said:
Having said that however, what I think needs to be done in addition to having a markets in which government interference is kept to a minimum, would be to put more of an emphasis on education. That would entail creating a superb class of teachers in society. This could be done by training teachers the way we currently train doctors, in that it would require an additional four to five years of training before one could teach. It would mean setting high admission standards into the profession of teachers, currently like those of medical doctors. It would mean that persons wanting to teach would have to demonstrate that they have the quality of compassion and are genuinely concerned about the well being of society. It would mean that candidates would have to demonstrate that they can teach all types of students before they would be allowed to teach. It would mean that candidates would have to demonstrate that they are able and willing to instill a sense of compassion, sharing, and social responsibility in students and that they set that example themselves before they would be allowed to teach. It would mean increasing the level of financial compensation of teachers to be on the level of what doctors currently receive. It would also mean that such a class of educators should have greater impact on the political system. That would mean that in addition to the two party system putting forward candidates for President of the United States, that this class of teachers would be able to put forward a third option and that campaign would be given the same visibility and funding that the current two major political parties have.

It would also mean more funding for schools, and not having teachers burdened with more students than they can properly educate.

That is where I would start.
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The US spends far more than any other Western Democracy on education, and yet, get the least results for that spending. Clearly, a system which has some fundamental problems in it that remain yet to be resolved.

What you are suggesting is dumping yet even more money into education, with no expected and demanded increase in results.

How about we hold the education system accountable for better results, on par with the results other teachers in other countries are achieving with far less, before we decide to spend even more money on it?
 
MildSteel said:
That sentiment is not confined to libertarians.
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Thats great but nothing that you have presented here has confirmed that Capitalism causes humans to be greedy and/or increase hatred. You presented some half truths and want me to ignore that they are only half truths.

The reality is that in American society today theres a lot of selfless sharing going on. We dont sound like a greedy hateful country at all. Capitalism hasnt at all harmed our ability to help our neighbors. So quit this propaganda parrot campaign.

Which country is most charitable? The USA -- and Myanmar

"•The United States is the only country to be ranked in the top 10 for all three areas of giving behavior.

•The U.S. score has increased from 61% to 64% this year."

Netherlands is #12 and Denmark #18

https://www.cafonline.org/pdf/CAF_WGI2014_Report_1555AWEBFinal.pdf
 
MildSteel said:
Relative to systems that are based on the notion of sharing and social responsibility.
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When and where was that prior to capitalism?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Thats great but nothing that you have presented here has confirmed that Capitalism causes humans to be greedy and/or increase hatred. You presented some half truths and want me to ignore that they are only half truths.

The reality is that in American society today theres a lot of selfless sharing going on. We dont sound like a greedy hateful country at all. Capitalism hasnt at all harmed our ability to help our neighbors. So quit this propaganda parrot campaign.

Which country is most charitable? The USA -- and Myanmar

"•The United States is the only country to be ranked in the top 10 for all three areas of giving behavior.

•The U.S. score has increased from 61% to 64% this year."

Netherlands is #12 and Denmark #18

https://www.cafonline.org/pdf/CAF_WGI2014_Report_1555AWEBFinal.pdf
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You are exactly correct.

The only thing that he has done is repeat the same thing over and over, ad nauseam, believing it to be true.

He is wrong, and too closed-minded to see otherwise.

My 12 year old knows better than to do that.
 
countryboy said:
Gee, another poll spammed by leftists with nothing better to do than skew the results of an online poll. :roll:

Here are the real results, if anyone is interested. Looks like the "nos" have it, not a big surprise.

View attachment 67181230
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It is also interesting to see who the pure socialists are and worth remembering for other topics.

Capitalism means a person has the freedom to market their own labor, negotiate their wages, and buy and sell as they please.

Prior to capitalism there was no right to say how much someone would have to pay you to work for them, no say over what you did for a living, what you sold and bought anything for. You were a slave/serf or the 0.1% with virtual absolute power.

It is interesting to see who believes in economic oppression and slavery/serfdom instead. There will always be people who claim that slavery/oppression is a good thing by asserting it is utopian with exactly nothing to back it up and history showing that is exactly what it is - slavery and oppression.
 
The Mark said:
Democracy.






:2razz:
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well, now...thats conditional...right? I mean several of those guys trumpeted their clear annual 'election'.

OK...fine...name 2...
 
Capitalism hasn't done this, it's been greed that's the culprit. We have corporations run by a select few individuals who are so hell bent on profit that they have completely destroyed ecosystems, food systems, social systems, political systems, and everything that relates to well being of life on this planet.

This consumer capitalist era needs to end, badly. We're way past due. We're also well overdue for some kind of major revolution, to adjust the corporate power structures that are destroying everything. Our laws and Constitutions only pertain to government, and business firms have found ways around them on a global scale. That needs serious correction.
 
eohrnberger said:
While I would admit that it's an involved discussion, I suspect that all you want here in this thread is a reaffirmation of your basic premise which is that capitalism causes an increase in hatred in humans, and frankly, I think that's not the case. The people will bring to capitalism what's in their hearts and minds. Capitalism doesn't cause humans to hate, nor to love, nor to empathize, or not. How do you justify the attributing an emotional response to an economic system?
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Since you don't believe me, here's what Adam Smith had to say

“Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many. The affluence of the rich excites the indignation of the poor, who are often both driven by want, and prompted by envy, to invade his possessions.”
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Many experts have observed that capitalism creates vast income inequality

The thing is, capitalism runs on profits. And profits are optimized when they’re monopolized. A good capitalist will try to monopolize the means of production therefore maximizing profits. And when profits are monopolized then you are very likely to get inequality because only a handful of people own the means of production. So capitalism has a natural tendency towards monopolization because capitalists naturally want to maximize profits.
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Is Wealth and Income Inequality Inevitable in a Capitalist System? | Pragmatic Capitalism

Marx also noted that because capitalists want to maximize profit, they are motivated to keep wages as low as possible. The result is income inequality.

So, there is indeed support to the notion that capitalism produces vast income inequality.

There is also support to the notion that income inequality is on the rise. Here is something from Pew Research

Emmanuel Saez, an economics professor at UC-Berkeley, has been doing just that for years. And according to his research, U.S. income inequality has been increasing steadily since the 1970s, and now has reached levels not seen since 1928.
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U.S. income inequality, on rise for decades, is now highest since 1928 | Pew Research Center

At the same time there is a rise in the number of hate groups

Fed by antagonism toward President Obama, resentment toward changing racial demographics and the economic rift between rich and poor, the number of so-called hate groups and antigovernment organizations in the nation has continued to grow, according to a report released Wednesday by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The center, which has kept track of such groups for 30 years, recorded 1,018 hate groups operating last year.

The number of groups whose ideology is organized against specific racial, religious, sexual or other characteristics has risen steadily since 2000, when 602 were identified, the center said. Antigay groups, for example, have risen to 27 from 17 in 2010.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/us/number-of-us-hate-groups-on-the-rise-report-says.html

So at the very least there is a correlation in the rise in hate groups and the rise in income inequality.

The OECD report explicitly links income inequality to resentment

Inequality also raises political challenges because it breed social resentment and generates politcal instability.
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https://books.google.com/books?id=cicw0RHOgH8C&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=divided+we+stand+why+inequality+keeps+rising+resentment&source=bl&ots=3SO8Zt2nv1&sig=ar_klfbI_b6a3B32vkz9DuAi95k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BBP1VLyMLcn1oATOtYG4Dw&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=divided%20we%20stand%20why%20inequality%20keeps%20rising%20resentment&f=false

So there you go. There is indeed support to the notion that capitalism has increased hatred.
 
It is lack of capitalism that causes hatred.

Socialist economies consist of a vast population that is barely hanging on except by practicing graft and corruption rules by a small politically connected class of bureaucrats and government officials stealing whatever they can lay their hands on. So the old Warsaw Pact nations, so Venezuela, so Cuba.

And, sadly, increasingly so Western Europe and the USA.

The pooer the country, the less capitalistic, the more hatred smolders beneath the surface.
 
MildSteel said:
Capitalism leverages the greed in humans to fuel productivity. However, greed is based on selfishness, which produces hatred of others.

As such, has the advance in capitalism resulted in an increase in hatred in the human race?
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1. "Capitalism leverages the greed in humans to fuel productivity." This a straw man. Capitalism is an economic system which allows people to trade their capacity for production into goods and services they want or need. It's the only successful economic system which mankind has created.

2. "However, greed is based on selfishness, which produces hatred of others." This is foolish psycobabble. Greed can be a negative force but it can also be force which drives people to succeed. It's the way the fruits of greed are applied that determines it's value.

3. "As such, has the advance in capitalism resulted in an increase in hatred in the human race?" An illogical premise based on a logical fallacy.
 
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MildSteel said:
Capitalism creates huge imbalances with some people having no wealth at all. That is a problem.
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That is simply a lie. Capitalism creates the opportunity for success. PEOPLE create the opportunity to have no wealth at all. NO ONE in a capitalist system benefits from crippled and dependent pets. They are counterproductive to a capitalist system.
 
MildSteel said:
Capitalism creates huge imbalances with some people having no wealth at all. That is a problem.
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yeah and communist countries have no poor

:lamo
 
I see leftwing morons who are not members have jacked this poll
 
MildSteel said:
Capitalism creates huge imbalances with some people having no wealth at all. That is a problem.
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If one contributes an appetite then do they deserve to be rewarded with a meal? ;)
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah and communist countries have no poor

:lamo
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I wonder if he is smart enough to see that it is not a system that encourages industry, creativity, and growth that creates hatred but jealousy, pettiness, and fiscal penis envy.
 
Venezuela: paradise on earth...as long as you like your paradise without toilet paper.:lamo
 
real poll results

Yes 9

No 45

Maybe 0

Other 2
 
Graffias said:
The short answer is yes. Competition for resources which are controlled by a small fraction of the world's population and artificial scarcity created by this same group causes hatred.
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success causes those who fail to hate those who succeed.
 
MildSteel said:
Since you don't believe me, here's what Adam Smith had to say



Many experts have observed that capitalism creates vast income inequality



Is Wealth and Income Inequality Inevitable in a Capitalist System? | Pragmatic Capitalism

Marx also noted that because capitalists want to maximize profit, they are motivated to keep wages as low as possible. The result is income inequality.

So, there is indeed support to the notion that capitalism produces vast income inequality.

There is also support to the notion that income inequality is on the rise. Here is something from Pew Research



U.S. income inequality, on rise for decades, is now highest since 1928 | Pew Research Center

At the same time there is a rise in the number of hate groups



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/us/number-of-us-hate-groups-on-the-rise-report-says.html

So at the very least there is a correlation in the rise in hate groups and the rise in income inequality.

The OECD report explicitly links income inequality to resentment



https://books.google.com/books?id=c...hy inequality keeps rising resentment&f=false

So there you go. There is indeed support to the notion that capitalism has increased hatred.
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So what are you purporting? Eat the rich? That worked out very well for the French, back in the day.

Legislate and regulate capitalism into non-existence?

Far more worry some would be the inability to work your way from the bottom to the top, and on that count, the US as does most other capitalistic systems, fares quite well.

20140201_USC259_0.png
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Class in America: Mobility, measured | The Economist

Overestimating 'inequality'

To Fix Income Inequality, The Have-Nots Must Become The Do-Somethings

You think all this is baloney? Guess you'd call the US Treasury full of baloney then.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY: Income Mobility in the U.S. from 1996 to 2005
November 13, 2007
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf

This is how the left sees the market: a zero-sum game.
If someone makes money, he took it from everyone else. The more the rich have, the less others have. It's as if the economy is a pie that's already on the table, waiting to be carved. The bigger the piece the rich take, the less that's left for everyone else.

The economy is just a fight over who gets how much. But this is absurd.

Bill Gates took a huge slice of pie, but he didn't take it from me. By starting Microsoft, he baked millions of new pies. He made the rest of the world richer, too.
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So what if rich people have more money than poor people in 2014 | Fox News

Examine inequality

In U.S., 60% Satisfied With Ability to Get Ahead

So the majority of Americans just happen not to agree with you and your assessment.

Good thing to, because income inequality across the globe is falling, not raising.

Global Income Inequality is Falling | Pragmatic Capitalism
More on Falling Global Income Inequality | Pragmatic Capitalism
Income Inequality Is Not Rising Globally. It's Falling.

So I'm not seeing your problem with capitalism, which in 20 years, has raised the income level and standard of living for the multitudes across the globe, for far more people than any other economic system has ever done.
 
I think that neither capitalism nor socialism, nor any other government system, (unless we're talking one that intentionally and knowingly includes mistreatment of certain parties)....causes hate, greed, or any other emotion.

Rather, the people who operate within the provided framework cause these things.

Ideally, you would want a framework that prevented the vast majority of negatives - but so far we (as in, humans) haven't seemed able to make that happen.
 
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