Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

Apocalypse · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

PoS said:
Hmm, an Isreali who sympathizes with a group whose leader has a Hitler moustache and hates immigrants. Thats interesting.

It's a movement so naturally I'm not sympathizing with the leader but with the people who take to the streets, but I'm glad to see you haven't wasted an opportunity to make a hateful remark regarding my nationality for the thousandth time, quite fittingly backwards of you.

Florian · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

PoS said:
The fact that they had a leader like that tells me all I need to know about that group. Funny how people now are defending racism all of a sudden as long as it suits them.

Why can't you separate the leader from the message of the group? Have you read their platform? Do you know many people attended their rallies? You know none of these questions. And you want to deny Germans the right to free speech and demonstration by branding them racist.

Immigration to Europe must stop before it dissolves the continent.

Hatuey · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Florian said:
The PEGIDA demonsrators outnumbered the counter protesters and polls are consistently showing more and more Germans are worried about immigration and Islam. Of course the German political elite and German business will oppose this. Anti-immigration sentiment has been silenced across the continent for a while now, branded as « racist » and so on.

Look to France. Front national has been attacked in the US and UK as fringe element when it is the third largest party in France and growing. There is a conspiracy to silence anti-immigration and anti-EU groups.

Interesting:

BBC News - 'Anti-Islamisation' group Pegida UK holds Newcastle march

About 1,000 protesters are demonstrating against the first rally in Britain by a group opposed to what it calls the "Islamisation of Europe".

Supporters of the UK branch of German group Pegida are at Newcastle city centre's Bigg Market.

Critics claim they are anti-Muslim and have come to the city to "promote expression of hatred", which they deny.

A counter-rally has marched to Newgate Street, within sight of about 400 Pegida UK demonstrators.

I don't question what Germans are and aren't worried about. However, I find it mostly irrelevant. It wouldn't be the first time they're worried about Middle Easterners taking over. But I did find your claim about outnumbering interesting. There is a PEGIDA demonstration going on right now and counter demonstrators more than double the demonstrator numbers.

CMPancake · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

spangledbanner said:
The Republican Party is ten times more racist than Pediga. And Yes. Pediga is racist.

What complete and utter hyperbole.

If you truly disagree with the Republican Party do it with some honesty instead of draping "racist" over all of them and have that be the end of the discussion. As far as the Repblican party being "10 times more racist" than Padega I find that hard to believe when one of the leaders of the GOP literally dress up like Hitler.

Apocalypse · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Hatuey said:
German leaders condemn xenophobia after Pegida protests | World news | The Guardian

So in short, tens of thousands of counter protesters, the German Chancellor, AND Germany's churches have all come to the conclusion that PEGIDA is pretty xenophobic if not racist. Do you believe there is a reason for this or some conspiracy to silence PEGIDA supporters?

Since when do opinions, and even if they are the opinions of such important people, constitute as facts?
For a movement to be considered a bigoted movement such as the EDL it is my opinion that the general atmosphere surrounding it needs to be a bigoted one as well.
Observing an average PEGIDA demonstration, what bigoted elements are you seeing exactly?

joG · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Hatuey said:
It seems like there is no part of PEGIDA that doesn't have some racial element. There are its leaders:

Who have espoused views such as these ones:

Pegida leader resigns after photograph of him posing as Adolf Hitler emerges - Telegraph

Then there are the people who support both PEGIDA and Golden Dawn:

It's also important to mention that the reaction to PEGIDA has been pretty strong:

Around 35,000 Germans rally in Dresden against racism and xenophobia | Reuters

So with that said, do you believe PEGIDA is a racist movement pretending not to be? I made the choices Yes or No. This poll supposes that you actually know about these organizations.
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From what I can see, PEGIDA is not a racist movement, though, miss understanding the basis has attracted a number of xenophobe primitives and agitators. The media and German Parties have focused on that group of individuals for very German and reasons of domestic politics. The foreign reporting has been mostly based on the indigenous reports and are so quite tinted.

Hatuey · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Apocalypse said:
Since when do opinions, and even if they are the opinions of such important people, constitute as facts? For a movement to be considered a bigoted movement such as the EDL it is my opinion that the general atmosphere surrounding it needs to be a bigoted one as well.
Observing an average PEGIDA demonstration, what bigoted elements are you seeing exactly?

What atmosphere are you talking about? What does an atmosphere have to do with anything? How you feel about what goes on is irrelevant to what I asked. I asked how so many people came to the conclusion that these people are bigoted. Don't deflect. Come up with a reason. Are they ALL conspiring to make PEGIDA seem racist?

joG · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

chad1389 said:
It's a group of people tired of living in fear of being gunned down or blown up, .......

Of course, anyone afraid of being gunned down or blown up in Germany is rather over anxious to the point of risking looking quite paranoid. But there are a lot of those people around in Germany.

Also, though, I voted "no" that is qualified by the fact, that xenophobia is very widely spread and deeply ingrained in the indigenous population in Germany. The "no" meant only, that the PEGIDA people are not particularly racist and that they do have rational arguments for a number of their demands.

jamesrage · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Hatuey said:
So with that said, do you believe PEGIDA is a racist movement pretending not to be? I made the choices Yes or No. This poll supposes that you actually know about these organizations.
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I know that leftists media outlets label anyone opposed to sharia law, uncontrolled/unrestricted immigration, illegal immigration and open borders is a racist organization. For example the minute men which is a anti-illegal immigration group gets fraudulently labeled as racists by leftists that support illegal immigration. So I would imagine that media outlets further left than our own will do the same thing.

Going by the political positions of PEGIDA I say no.I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegida#Political_positions
Affirms the right of asylum for war refugees and politically persecuted people.
Advocates to include in the German constitution a right and duty to integration.
Advocates for decentralized housing of refugees.
Suggests creation of a central refugee agency for a fair allocation of immigrants among countries of the European Union.
Demands a decrease in the number of asylum seekers per social worker from currently 200:1.
Suggests to model German immigration policies after those of the Netherlands and Switzerland and demands an increased budget for the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees to speed up processing of applications.
Demands an increase in funding for the police.
Demands implementation of all asylum laws including expulsion.
Mentions zero tolerance towards criminal refugees and immigrants.
States that Pegida oppose a misogynic and violent political ideology, but does not oppose assimilated and politically moderate Muslims.[31]
Supports immigration as in Switzerland, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
Pegida demonstration on 12 January 2015
States that Pegida support sexual self-determination (opposing "early sexualization of children"[32]).
Argues for the protection of Germany's traditionally Judeo-Christian culture.
Supports the introduction of referenda as in Switzerland.
Opposes weapon export to radical and non-permitted groups, such as the PKK.
Opposes parallel societies/parallel jurisdictions, for example Sharia courts, Sharia police and peace judges.
States that Pegida oppose gender mainstreaming, and political correctness.
Indicates that Pegida oppose any radicalism, whether religious or politically motivated.
Says that Pegida oppose hate speech, regardless of religion.

Hatuey · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

jamesrage said:
I know that leftists media outlets label anyone opposed to sharia law, uncontrolled/unrestricted immigration, illegal immigration and open borders is a racist organization. For example the minute men which is a anti-illegal immigration group gets fraudulently labeled as racists by leftists that support illegal immigration. So I would imagine that media outlets further left than our own will do the same thing.

Going by the political positions of PEGIDA I say no.I
Affirms the right of asylum for war refugees and politically persecuted people.
Advocates to include in the German constitution a right and duty to integration.
Advocates for decentralized housing of refugees.
Suggests creation of a central refugee agency for a fair allocation of immigrants among countries of the European Union.
Demands a decrease in the number of asylum seekers per social worker from currently 200:1.
Suggests to model German immigration policies after those of the Netherlands and Switzerland and demands an increased budget for the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees to speed up processing of applications.
Demands an increase in funding for the police.
Demands implementation of all asylum laws including expulsion.
Mentions zero tolerance towards criminal refugees and immigrants.
States that Pegida oppose a misogynic and violent political ideology, but does not oppose assimilated and politically moderate Muslims.[31]
Supports immigration as in Switzerland, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
Pegida demonstration on 12 January 2015
States that Pegida support sexual self-determination (opposing "early sexualization of children"[32]).
Argues for the protection of Germany's traditionally Judeo-Christian culture.
Supports the introduction of referenda as in Switzerland.
Opposes weapon export to radical and non-permitted groups, such as the PKK.
Opposes parallel societies/parallel jurisdictions, for example Sharia courts, Sharia police and peace judges.
States that Pegida oppose gender mainstreaming, and political correctness.
Indicates that Pegida oppose any radicalism, whether religious or politically motivated.
Says that Pegida oppose hate speech, regardless of religion.

Yes, yes, there are their demands, and there are the ideas behind the people who created them. Do you believe that given their former leader's/founder's views on immigration, they are masquerading as something they are not? For example, their founder doesn't seem to be a fan of the Judeo part of Judeo-Christian culture but they claim to be supported of protecting the aforementioned. Do you believe that is disingenuous at all?

Apocalypse · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Hatuey said:
What atmosphere are you talking about? What does an atmosphere have to do with anything?

Atmosphere is the chanting, the signs, the opinions of the majority of the demonstrators.
The general atmosphere in an EDL demonstration is a bigoted one.
Is that the same in a PEGIDA demonstration? Doesn't seem so.

How you feel about what goes on is irrelevant to what I asked. I asked how so many people came to the conclusion that these people are bigoted. Don't deflect. Come up with a reason. Are they ALL conspiring to make PEGIDA seem racist?

Conspiring? Who talked about conspiring. That's entirely your injection. It's also your injection that they claimed it was racist, Angela Merkel said "Xenophobic" which is a different term. The word 'racism' gets thrown around too much and it's a shame. It is my opinion that they are wrong. Merkel can't be wrong? She has admitted to being wrong on many occasions so we've established the fact that she can be wrong. As to the counter protesters, what makes them right? Their numbers? Because they simply do not.

So if you wish to establish the claim that they are racist you would need to show more than some comments made by officials or a counter protest or anything like that. In order to establish the claim that the movement itself is a racist movement you'll need to point at its racist elements. I'm not going to change my mind regarding to the movement itself when I've seen nothing to indicate that it has a racist nature.

PeteEU · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Florian said:
Why can't you separate the leader from the message of the group? Have you read their platform? Do you know many people attended their rallies? You know none of these questions. And you want to deny Germans the right to free speech and demonstration by branding them racist.

Immigration to Europe must stop before it dissolves the continent.

THIS is the problem with people like you.. hiding behind "immigration" when you fully know that there is very little legal immigration to Europe from outside the EU, and what there is is mostly of highly professional peoples who come here for a job (depends on each country of course).

What you, Front National, UKIP, Pegida, The Danish Peoples Party and all similar parties and organisations want is to get rid of the coloured people and non Christians and you use the immigration issue internally and externally in Europe as a platform to gain political power based on an irrational fear of people who act and look different. That is racism being hidden behind "immigration" issues.

Europes problem is NOT legal immigration.. but illegal immigration and refugees and that is something that no one is willing to combat on an European scale... especially the parties mentioned above because of their racist nationalism. Just think if the illegal immigration and refugees was solved, what on earth would a party like Front National do then? Actual politics? HAHAHAH.

This new organisation is nothing but a cover for more right wing nationalistic racist and fascists people using peoples irrational fears about the stranger to get political power.

Now saying that, the traditional parties are doing a piss poor job of explaining what is the truth about immigration, refugees and illegals and have not realized that to solve the problems you need not quotas on internal EU immigration, but to have an EU wide fair policy on handling illegals and refugees and external immigration, but the mostly conservative parties of Europe refuse to talk about it.. as "illegals and immigration" is the bred and butter of their politics now days and that is sad. It is easier to blame Ali from Somalia for the economic problems of a country than their own failed policies.

Hatuey · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Apocalypse said:
Atmosphere is the chanting, the signs, the opinions of the majority of the demonstrators.
The general atmosphere in an EDL demonstration is a bigoted one.
Is that the same in a PEGIDA demonstration? Doesn't seem so.

So in some panning shots and 10 second interviews with some people you were able to determine the environment? Interesting.

Conspiring? Who talked about conspiring. That's entirely your injection. It's also your injection that they claimed it was racist, Angela Merkel said "Xenophobic" which is a different term.

Xenophobic is an umbrella term which also includes racists. Unless of course you're being purposely obtuse. I mean, it's not like they're against British immigrants coming over or American immigrants coming over. They're against a specific type of immigrant coming over.

The word 'racism' gets thrown around too much and it's a shame. It is my opinion that they are wrong. Merkel can't be wrong? She has admitted to being wrong on many occasions so we've established the fact that she can be wrong. As to the counter protesters, what makes them right? Their numbers? Because they simply do not.

So if you wish to establish the claim that they are racist you would need to show more than some comments made by officials or a counter protest or anything like that. In order to establish the claim that the movement itself is a racist movement you'll need to point at its racist elements. I'm not going to change my mind regarding to the movement itself when I've seen nothing to indicate that it has a racist nature.

So many acrobatics and I've got no time for them. Answer the question: Are they ALL conspiring to make PEGIDA seem racist?

Apocalypse · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Hatuey said:
So in some panning shots and 10 second interviews with some people you were able to determine the environment? Interesting.

Another injection. You think they are racist? Prove it. You can't? Bummer.

Xenophobic is an umbrella term which also includes racists. Unless of course you're being purposely obtuse. I mean, it's not like they're against British immigrants coming over or American immigrants coming over. They're against a specific type of immigrant coming over.

No it's not and no I'm not. Xenophobic describes the hatred of foreigners and not of a specific race. An American with roots from Mexico can be xenophobic towards immigrants from Mexico. What kind of nonsense is that?

So many acrobatics and I've got no time for them. Answer the question: Are they ALL conspiring to make PEGIDA seem racist?

If you couldn't infer the answer to that question from this earlier statement I've made:

Conspiring? Who talked about conspiring. That's entirely your injection.

Then you're a lost cause.
And just in case you still haven't realized it - the answer is no.

Hatuey · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Apocalypse said:
Another injection. You think they are racist? Prove it. You can't? Bummer.

I didn't say they were racist. I asked you why you believe so many people think they are. Don't let the strawman hit you on the way out.

No it's not and no I'm not. Xenophobic describes the hatred of foreigners and not of a specific race.

Semantics. If you dislike people from Sub-saharan countries because they're black, then you're both a xenophobe and a racist. If you dislike the Chinese because they're Asians, it's the same exact thing. Your acrobatics are starting to amuse me though. Do they work in the M/E forum?

An American with roots from Mexico can be xenophobic towards immigrants from Mexico. What kind of nonsense is that?

Yes, and that would make him a xenophobe and a racist. The difference you're trying to draw here is irrelevant. PEGIDA is a movement based on European nationalism. It's not like they're opposing white immigrants. They're opposing Muslim immigration which come from specific countries.

If you couldn't infer the answer to that question from this earlier statement I've made:

Then you're a lost cause.
And just in case you still haven't realized it - the answer is no.

Ah, so nobody is conspiring to make PEGIDA look racist? Interesting. Why do so many people think they are racist then?

Apocalypse · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Hatuey said:
I didn't say they were racist. I asked you why you believe so many people think they are. Don't let the strawman hit you on the way out.

What way out? :lol:
1) I answered that two posts ago. (They are wrong) 2) It's not the question in the poll.

Semantics. If you dislike people from Sub-saharan countries because they're black, then you're both a xenophobe and a racist. If you dislike the Chinese because they're Asians, it's the same exact thing. Your acrobatics are starting to amuse me though. Do they work in the M/E forum?

Again with the M/E forum, that took long enough didn't it? Well no, xenophobia and racism are still not the same thing. One is advocating the hatred of anyone who is not a national and the other is advocating hatred against people on a racial basis. It's really silly to just assume that anyone who's a xenophobic person is also a racist.

Yes, and that would make him a xenophobe. If he is against Mexicans because they have NA roots, he's being both racist and a xenophobe.

So you're now saying that one can be a xenophobe without being a racist, which means that the two terms are not similar.
Consistency, is it too much to ask for?

Ah, so nobody is conspiring to make PEGIDA look racist? Interesting. Why do so many people think they are racist then?

Because they're wrong. Why did a million people think the world is flat? Appealing to numbers is a very wrong approach, logically.

Hatuey · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Apocalypse said:
What way out? :lol:
1) I answered that two posts ago. (They are wrong) 2) It's not the question in the poll.

So they are wrong based on what? That they don't get PEGIDA like you do?

Again with the M/E forum, that took long enough didn't it? Well no, xenophobia and racism are still not the same thing. One is advocating the hatred of anyone who is not a national and the other is advocating hatred against people on a racial basis. It's really silly to just assume that anyone who's a xenophobic person is also a racist.

And in the context we're discussing they are the same thing. Unless of course you believe PEGIDA is against all sorts of immigration and not just Muslim immigration.

So you're now saying that one can be a xenophobe without being a racist, which means that the two terms are not similar.

Hatuey said:
Xenophobic is an umbrella term which also includes racists.

Reading, your gotcha moment fails when you don't read.

Because they're wrong. Why did a million people think the world is flat? Appealing to numbers is a very wrong approach, logically.

This is hardly comparable to the world being flat. It's two sides looking at the same evidence and coming to different conclusions. Whether they are right or wrong is irrelevant and subjected. I asked you why one group came to one conclusion and the other came to another. I can wait for your answer.

Apocalypse · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Hatuey said:
So they are wrong based on what? That they don't get PEGIDA like you do?

Based on the simple fact that it is not proven.
70,000 people claim tomorrow that Hatuey is a racist. Are they right? Nope. Based on what? Based on the fact that there is no proof that he is. Period.

And in the context we're discussing they are the same thing. Unless of course you believe PEGIDA is against all sorts of immigration and not just Muslim immigration.

I'd have to believe they're xenophobic first so to claim that they are xenophobic against everyone and not just Muslims. Besides, are Muslims a race now?

Reading, your gotcha moment fails when you don't read.

And it isn't an umbrella term for racism. Racism and Xenophobia are two different terms that operate on the same level. One isn't including the other.
You cannot deduce from the fact that someone is a xenophobic that he is also a racist. You also can't deduce from the fact that someone is racist that he is a xenophobe. You've claimed so yourself only a moment ago. So it doesn't include it.

This is hardly comparable to the world being flat. It's two sides looking at the same evidence and coming to different conclusions. Whether they are right or wrong is irrelevant and subjected. I asked you why one group came to one conclusion and the other came to another. I can wait for your answer.

Why are they wrong? It varies with each person. Some due to the misinterpretation of the movement's nature and some due to political bias and other reasons. I'm really not interested in debating why people are wrong - that they're wrong is more than enough for me. So while that was the fourth time I've been answering these irrelevant questions of yours it will also be the last.

Hatuey · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Apocalypse said:
Based on the simple fact that it is not proven.
70,000 people claim tomorrow that Hatuey is a racist. Are they right? Nope. Based on what? Based on the fact that there is no proof that he is. Period.

You're still ignoring the actual question and focusing on the actual number. What I asked you is how and why people reached this conclusion. That you continually ignore that the issue isn't the number but the reasons behind them reaching that conclusion says volumes.

I'd have to believe they're xenophobic first so to claim that they are xenophobic against everyone and not just Muslims. Besides, are Muslims a race now?

And it isn't an umbrella term for racism.

Now you're being purposely obtuse. What kind of immigration are they in opposition to? Where do these people come from? The racial component and the xenophobic are one and the same given the situation. To believe otherwise is wilfully blissful ignorance.

Why are they wrong? It varies with each person. Some due to the misinterpretation of the movement's nature and some due to political bias and other reasons. I'm really not interested in debating why people are wrong - that they're wrong is more than enough for me. So while that was the fourth time I've been answering these irrelevant questions of yours it will also be the last.

Misinterpretation? How do you misinterpret this?

Lmao, the bolded just made it even funnier. You can't say why people are wrong in assuming that PEGIDA is racist and xenophobic but you believe they are because... you say so? Your acrobatics, they're amazing. There is no bias in seeing the founders, the associations with Golden Dawn and considering them to be racist and xenophobic. If you can show why it's wrong, you're welcome to show how.

I can wait.

PoS · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Apocalypse said:
It's a movement so naturally I'm not sympathizing with the leader but with the people who take to the streets, but I'm glad to see you haven't wasted an opportunity to make a hateful remark regarding my nationality for the thousandth time, quite fittingly backwards of you.

Germany had a very similar movement back in the 1930's with a similarly moustachioed man so based on your logic you had no sympathy with that leader but with the people in the streets back then... I guess it makes sense now.

Apocalypse · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Hatuey said:
You're still ignoring the actual question and focusing on the actual number. What I asked you is how and why people reached this conclusion. That you continually ignore that the issue isn't the number but the reasons behind them reaching that conclusion says volumes.

I actually answered that mind you.

Now you're being purposely obtuse. What kind of immigration are they in opposition to? Where do these people come from? The racial component and the xenophobic are one and the same given the situation. To believe otherwise is wilfully blissful ignorance.

No they are not one and the same, I see no reason to believe that they are one and the same, it's quite silly to assume that anyone who has a problem with immigrants also hates them for their color.

Misinterpretation? How do you misinterpret this?

A racist person?
Already stated in my first post in this topic that he is obviously racist, he is no longer the leader of the movement however as far as I know and as I pointed out earlier claiming that the entire movement is racist cannot be done solely on the basis that the leader is a racist asshole.

I judge the movement by the people who are making the majority of it, if I will be convinced that the majority of them are racist or that the nature of the movement is a racist one I will admit that it is a racist movement like the EDL is. Until then I'm not going to do so. I will note that such movements naturally attract racists to them and that eventually they will be all that is left from it but right now I cannot see a group of people who are merely protesting against a radical ideology as racists, I find that to be very wrong.

Lmao, the bolded just made it even funnier. You can't say why people are wrong in assuming that PEGIDA is racist and xenophobic but you believe they are because... you say so?

Another injection. No I do not believe they are wrong because I say so, I never suggested that, I believe they are wrong due to the lack of evidence. Perhaps you are used to drawing conclusions based over nothing, I like to have a logical basis for every opinion that I hold and I see none provided for the opinion that they are racists.
And I'll note that you haven't even once made any attempt to create such logical basis, so if you would for once that would be quite refreshing eh?

Apocalypse · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

PoS said:
Germany had a very similar movement back in the 1930's with a similarly moustachioed man so based on your logic you had no sympathy with that leader but with the people in the streets back then... I guess it makes sense now.

Well naturally since the idiot was trying to imitate that same mustached man. Holy **** that's stupid. And no the majority of PEGIDA protesters aren't bigoted as far as I can tell so your point? It's nonexistent per usual.

Medusa · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

allowing muslim immigrants in European countries to open sharia courts doesn't make the West look more tolerant and respectful to the democratic values ,freedom of religion ,human rights etc.but it more likely creates a discrimination against different groups of people from different backgrounds.letting people be judged based on sharia laws or other laws isnt democracy

Florian · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

PeteEU said:
THIS is the problem with people like you.. hiding behind "immigration" when you fully know that there is very little legal immigration to Europe from outside the EU, and what there is is mostly of highly professional peoples who come here for a job (depends on each country of course).

So where did the millions of Muslims in Europe come from? Of course there's high immigration.

PeteEU said:
What you, Front National, UKIP, Pegida, The Danish Peoples Party and all similar parties and organisations want is to get rid of the coloured people and non Christians and you use the immigration issue internally and externally in Europe as a platform to gain political power based on an irrational fear of people who act and look different. That is racism being hidden behind "immigration" issues.

How is it an irrational fear? Why should we not take a stand when ethnic French are decreasing in their own country? I want ethnic French to always have the right to their country. We do not need more Muslims here, or anywhere in Europe.

PeteEU · Feb 28, 2015

Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Florian said:
So where did the millions of Muslims in Europe come from? Of course there's high immigration.

Ahh a good question! Have you ever bothered to find that out?

So which number should we start with? The 44ish million in all of Europe (excluding Turkey), or only the 19-20 million in the EU? When did they arrive in Europe.. the last 10 years or 30+ years ago? How many are actually natural born citizens? How many live in traditionally Muslim areas of Europe... going back hundreds of years?

How is it an irrational fear? Why should we not take a stand when ethnic French are decreasing in their own country? I want ethnic French to always have the right to their country. We do not need more Muslims here, or anywhere in Europe.

Ethnic French? Wow.... that sounds borderline... never mind.

First off what is ethnic French? White? No blacks or Asians? How about mixed breeds? Does Sarkozy count as ethnic French considering his family are Jews from Hungary? How about Hollande.. bet his family has big links to the Netherlands or there abouts.. since traditionally the name "Hollande" is linked to Holland (go look it up). Is he "ethnicity French" enough. How about De Gaulle? He was after all part Scottish, German, Irish and Flemish on his mother side.. was he enough ethnically French? Or Zidane or half the French national team.. in almost all sports!

Secondly what is decreasing? Pure whites? Sure.. cause we dont have issues mating with a non white any more.. people have become civilized.

And finally, no more Muslims in Europe. You know people have been saying that for centuries.. about Muslims and Jews.. and Protestants and Orthodox.. Still does not make it right. It also does not help that we have created a large part of the refugee problem, either directly or indirectly.

Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

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