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US Backing for 'Moderate' Syrian Rebels: Long Reported, Continually Forgotten

Should we be arming Islamic rebels?.


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I think that was over-exaggerated JH. We had up all their groups. Many were espousing for Shariah Law.

Sorry, but that's simply not true. Because they did not receive timely support they were stalemated and the extremists were given their opening.
 
Predictably these "moderates" turned out to be affiliated with Al-Qaeda. So basically should we be arming Al-Qaeda?


No. The moderates were not supported and became stalemated. That gave the extremists their opening.
 
In early 2012 the US missed a huge opportunity to support the Assad regime. Our failure to do so created the opportunity for extremists to grow in strength and attack the legitimate governing body of Syria. A legitimate body that protects and defends people regardless of faith I might add.

The Asad regime is a brutal dictatorship unworthy of support.
 
The Asad regime is a brutal dictatorship unworthy of support.
I disagree with your grade school level of analysis and suggest you grab a history book so that you can learn the track record of the people we've supported in the past.
No. The moderates were not supported and became stalemated. That gave the extremists their opening.
We did support the moderates. They turned out to be affiliated with Al-Qaeda.
 
I disagree with your grade school level of analysis and suggest you grab a history book so that you can learn the track record of the people we've supported in the past.

We did support the moderates. They turned out to be affiliated with Al-Qaeda.

Wrong. We never provided meaningful support to the moderates and they were supplanted by extremists affiliated with AQ. Your ego is writing checks your knowledge can't cash.
 
Wrong. We never provided meaningful support to the moderates and they were supplanted by extremists affiliated with AQ. Your ego is writing checks your knowledge can't cash.
Considering...
The Asad regime is a brutal dictatorship unworthy of support.
what you just wrote, I think you're the last person to accuse anyone of being lacking in knowledge or and having an ego. Somebody in another thread claims that you've been around and know things but I'm starting to suspect that person was just your sockpuppet because I'm thoroughly convinced you've been in your mom's basement so long you've gone blind from the lack of sunlight. There's no way somebody like you, whom I'll be generous and say is naive at a level that is shocking for a functional adult, believes that the standards of whom is deserving of American support is based on how mean of a dictator they are.
 
Considering...

what you just wrote, I think you're the last person to accuse anyone of being lacking in knowledge or and having an ego. Somebody in another thread claims that you've been around and know things but I'm starting to suspect that person was just your sockpuppet because I'm thoroughly convinced you've been in your mom's basement so long you've gone blind from the lack of sunlight. There's no way somebody like you, whom I'll be generous and say is naive at a level that is shocking for a functional adult, believes that the standards of whom is deserving of American support is based on how mean of a dictator they are.

No. That is not what I posted. Asad has been brutal toward his own people to be sure, but he has also been the primary conduit of Iranian mischief in the Middle East, the primary channel of support to Hezbollah, and the author of instability in Lebanon and persistent threats to Israel. The end of the Asad regime would be a significant strategic gain for the US.
 
No. That is not what I posted. Asad has been brutal toward his own people to be sure, but he has also been the primary conduit of Iranian mischief in the Middle East, the primary channel of support to Hezbollah, and the author of instability in Lebanon and persistent threats to Israel. The end of the Asad regime would be a significant strategic gain for the US.
You're right. Let's just get rid of Assad and not give any thought to who takes over afterwards. Al-Qaida, ISIS, the devil himself...let's just get rid of "mean people" so that power vaccuums can develop all over the middle east willy nilly.
 
You're right. Let's just get rid of Assad and not give any thought to who takes over afterwards. Al-Qaida, ISIS, the devil himself...let's just get rid of "mean people" so that power vaccuums can develop all over the middle east willy nilly.

Had we acted decisively in early 2012 we could have replaced the Asad regime with one roughly in the same spectrum space as the regime in Jordan. The power vacuum resulted from our failure to act. You're the only one mentioning "mean people." I don't use that kind of terminology when discussing leaders who operate in environments where the price of defeat is often death.
 
Remember last time we did this? That really came back to bite us in the ass.
 
Sorry, but that's simply not true. Because they did not receive timely support they were stalemated and the extremists were given their opening.

It is True JH. :2wave: That came straight from commanders with the Free Syria Army. If you recall the Syrian Rebels decapitated a couple of people too.



Syrian Rebels Accused of Decapitations by Rights Group
Jun 27, 2013

Militants fighting alongside Syrian rebel forces have beheaded two civilians with knives in front of onlookers including children, a pro-opposition group said.

The Syrian civilians were accused of collaborating with President Bashar al-Assad’s government, the Coventry, U.K.-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said on its Facebook page. The rebels, who spoke in classical Arabic with an accent, may have been Chechen, the Observatory said.

Separately, a suicide bomber killed four and injured an unspecified number of people in the Christian neighborhood of Bab Touma close to Mariamiyah Cathedral in Damascus, Syrian State TV said today. Opposition groups said the explosion was caused by a mortar round, Al Arabiya Television reported......snip~


Syrian Rebels Accused of Decapitations by Rights Group - Bloomberg Business
 
It is True JH. :2wave: That came straight from commanders with the Free Syria Army. If you recall the Syrian Rebels decapitated a couple of people too.



Syrian Rebels Accused of Decapitations by Rights Group
Jun 27, 2013

Militants fighting alongside Syrian rebel forces have beheaded two civilians with knives in front of onlookers including children, a pro-opposition group said.

The Syrian civilians were accused of collaborating with President Bashar al-Assad’s government, the Coventry, U.K.-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said on its Facebook page. The rebels, who spoke in classical Arabic with an accent, may have been Chechen, the Observatory said.

Separately, a suicide bomber killed four and injured an unspecified number of people in the Christian neighborhood of Bab Touma close to Mariamiyah Cathedral in Damascus, Syrian State TV said today. Opposition groups said the explosion was caused by a mortar round, Al Arabiya Television reported......snip~


Syrian Rebels Accused of Decapitations by Rights Group - Bloomberg Business

That is a year and half too late, long after the moderate secular rebels had been displaced by the religious fanatics. You actually made my point.
 
That is a year and half too late, long after the moderate secular rebels had been displaced by the religious fanatics. You actually made my point.


Only those who were traitors to Assad and his people.....and only until they could get the Rebellion going. It was clear immediately the Secular Rebels were never going to control anything.


Islamist Rebels Create Dilemma on Syria Policy

In Syria’s largest city, Aleppo, rebels aligned with Al Qaeda control the power plant, run the bakeries and head a court that applies Islamic law. Elsewhere, they have seized government oil fields, put employees back to work and now profit from the crude they produce. Across Syria, rebel-held areas are dotted with Islamic courts staffed by lawyers and clerics, and by fighting brigades led by extremists. Even the Supreme Military Council, the umbrella rebel organization whose formation the West had hoped would sideline radical groups, is stocked with commanders who want to infuse Islamic law into a future Syrian government.

Nowhere in rebel-controlled Syria is there a secular fighting force to speak of. More than two years of violence have radicalized the armed opposition fighting the government of President Bashar al-Assad, leaving few groups that both share the political vision of the United States and have the military might to push it forward. Among the most extreme groups is the notorious Al Nusra Front, the Qaeda-aligned force declared a terrorist organization by the United States, but other groups share aspects of its Islamist ideology in varying degrees.

The Islamist character of the opposition reflects the main constituency of the rebellion, which has been led since its start by Syria’s Sunni Muslim majority, mostly in conservative, marginalized areas. The descent into brutal civil war has hardened sectarian differences, and the failure of more mainstream rebel groups to secure regular arms supplies has allowed Islamists to fill the void and win supporters. The religious agenda of the combatants sets them apart from many civilian activists, protesters and aid workers who had hoped the uprising would create a civil, democratic Syria. When the armed rebellion began, defectors from the government’s staunchly secular army formed the vanguard. The rebel movement has since grown to include fighters with a wide range of views, including Qaeda-aligned jihadis seeking to establish an Islamic emirate, political Islamists inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood and others who want an Islamic-influenced legal code like that found in many Arab states. Another prominent group, Ahrar al-Sham, shares much of Nusra’s extremist ideology but is made up mostly of Syrians.....snip~


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/w...reate-dilemma-for-us.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1
 
Only those who were traitors to Assad and his people.....and only until they could get the Rebellion going. It was clear immediately the Secular Rebels were never going to control anything.


Islamist Rebels Create Dilemma on Syria Policy

In Syria’s largest city, Aleppo, rebels aligned with Al Qaeda control the power plant, run the bakeries and head a court that applies Islamic law. Elsewhere, they have seized government oil fields, put employees back to work and now profit from the crude they produce. Across Syria, rebel-held areas are dotted with Islamic courts staffed by lawyers and clerics, and by fighting brigades led by extremists. Even the Supreme Military Council, the umbrella rebel organization whose formation the West had hoped would sideline radical groups, is stocked with commanders who want to infuse Islamic law into a future Syrian government.

Nowhere in rebel-controlled Syria is there a secular fighting force to speak of. More than two years of violence have radicalized the armed opposition fighting the government of President Bashar al-Assad, leaving few groups that both share the political vision of the United States and have the military might to push it forward. Among the most extreme groups is the notorious Al Nusra Front, the Qaeda-aligned force declared a terrorist organization by the United States, but other groups share aspects of its Islamist ideology in varying degrees.

The Islamist character of the opposition reflects the main constituency of the rebellion, which has been led since its start by Syria’s Sunni Muslim majority, mostly in conservative, marginalized areas. The descent into brutal civil war has hardened sectarian differences, and the failure of more mainstream rebel groups to secure regular arms supplies has allowed Islamists to fill the void and win supporters. The religious agenda of the combatants sets them apart from many civilian activists, protesters and aid workers who had hoped the uprising would create a civil, democratic Syria. When the armed rebellion began, defectors from the government’s staunchly secular army formed the vanguard. The rebel movement has since grown to include fighters with a wide range of views, including Qaeda-aligned jihadis seeking to establish an Islamic emirate, political Islamists inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood and others who want an Islamic-influenced legal code like that found in many Arab states. Another prominent group, Ahrar al-Sham, shares much of Nusra’s extremist ideology but is made up mostly of Syrians.....snip~


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/w...reate-dilemma-for-us.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1

Again, your source is well over a year too late. In early 2012 the situation was much different. The "secular vanguard" did not get the support they needed.
 
Again, your source is well over a year too late. In early 2012 the situation was much different. The "secular vanguard" did not get the support they needed.

Yes it is older JH but note what it states about the Islamist Character and this was back in 2013, but it points out what the Problems were all along and from their beginning. I'm not saying you aren't Right with the Secularists leading from those that betrayed Assad.



The Islamist character of the opposition reflects the main constituency of the rebellion, which has been led since its start by Syria’s Sunni Muslim majority, mostly in conservative, marginalized areas. The descent into brutal civil war has hardened sectarian differences, and the failure of more mainstream rebel groups to secure regular arms supplies has allowed Islamists to fill the void and win supporters.

The religious agenda of the combatants sets them apart from many civilian activists, protesters and aid workers who had hoped the uprising would create a civil, democratic Syria.....snip~ <<<<< Same NY Times link.
 
Yes it is older JH but note what it states about the Islamist Character and this was back in 2013, but it points out what the Problems were all along and from their beginning. I'm not saying you aren't Right with the Secularists leading from those that betrayed Assad.



The Islamist character of the opposition reflects the main constituency of the rebellion, which has been led since its start by Syria’s Sunni Muslim majority, mostly in conservative, marginalized areas. The descent into brutal civil war has hardened sectarian differences, and the failure of more mainstream rebel groups to secure regular arms supplies has allowed Islamists to fill the void and win supporters.

The religious agenda of the combatants sets them apart from many civilian activists, protesters and aid workers who had hoped the uprising would create a civil, democratic Syria.....snip~

2013 is too late. In early 2012 the secularists were very much in charge.
 
2013 is too late.

Not really JH as it points out.....the Secularists never had a chance.



As extremists rose in the rebel ranks, the United States sought to limit their influence, first by designating Nusra a terrorist organization, and later by pushing for the formation of the Supreme Military Council, which is linked to the exile opposition group, the Syrian National Coalition. Although led by an army defector, Gen. Salim Idris, the council has taken in the leaders of many overtly Islamist battalions. One called the Syrian Liberation Front has been integrated nearly wholesale into the council; many of its members coordinate closely with the Syrian Islamic Front, a group that includes the extremist Ahrar al-Sham, according to a recent report by Ms. O’Bagy, of the Institute for the Study of War.

In the past, United States officials saw the Islamist groups’ abundant resources as the main draw for recruits, said Steven Heydemann, a senior adviser at the United States Institute of Peace, which works with the State Department. “The strategy is based on the current assessment that popular appeal of these groups is transactional, not ideological, and that opportunities exist to peel people away by providing alternative support and resources,” he said. Mr. Heydemann acknowledged, however, that the current momentum toward radicalism could be hard to reverse.

We all want an Islamic state and we want Shariah to be applied,” said Maawiya Hassan Agha, a rebel activist reached by Skype in the northern village of Sarmeen. He said a country’s laws should flow from its people’s beliefs and compared Syrians calling for Islamic law with the French banning Muslim women from wearing face veils.....snip~
 
Not really JH as it points out.....the Secularists never had a chance.



As extremists rose in the rebel ranks, the United States sought to limit their influence, first by designating Nusra a terrorist organization, and later by pushing for the formation of the Supreme Military Council, which is linked to the exile opposition group, the Syrian National Coalition. Although led by an army defector, Gen. Salim Idris, the council has taken in the leaders of many overtly Islamist battalions. One called the Syrian Liberation Front has been integrated nearly wholesale into the council; many of its members coordinate closely with the Syrian Islamic Front, a group that includes the extremist Ahrar al-Sham, according to a recent report by Ms. O’Bagy, of the Institute for the Study of War.

In the past, United States officials saw the Islamist groups’ abundant resources as the main draw for recruits, said Steven Heydemann, a senior adviser at the United States Institute of Peace, which works with the State Department. “The strategy is based on the current assessment that popular appeal of these groups is transactional, not ideological, and that opportunities exist to peel people away by providing alternative support and resources,” he said. Mr. Heydemann acknowledged, however, that the current momentum toward radicalism could be hard to reverse.

We all want an Islamic state and we want Shariah to be applied,” said Maawiya Hassan Agha, a rebel activist reached by Skype in the northern village of Sarmeen. He said a country’s laws should flow from its people’s beliefs and compared Syrians calling for Islamic law with the French banning Muslim women from wearing face veils.....snip~

We gave the secularists no choice and no option by failing to support them.
 
Precisely my point. If you don't have terrorists, you don't have a War on Terror and the associated profit stream. Ergo, it is prudent marketing to arm terrorists wherever you can find them or gin some up. The USA has for years been arming Islamic rebels in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Qatar, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and who knows where else. Somalia even. Keerist mon, it's "jus' bidness" to quote the First Torturor, GW Bush.
Yup, we created and perpetuated this "war on terror" in order to keep our multi-billion arms industry alive.
 
We gave the secularists no choice and no option by failing to support them.

There wasn't enough of them. Check this out from 2011. Note all these Groups. Even the Kurds were included.




Opposition groups in Syria took a new turn in 2011 during the Syrian civil war as they united to form the Syrian National Council (SNC), which has received significant international support and recognition as a partner for dialogue. The Syrian National Council has been recognised or supported in some capacity by at least 17 member states of the United Nations, with three of those (France, United Kingdom and the United States) being permanent members of the Security Council.

A new opposition umbrella group — the National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces — was formed in November 2012 and has gained recognition as the "legitimate representative of the Syrian people" by the Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (CCASG) and as a "representative of aspirations of Syrian people" by the Arab League.

The National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces is a coalition of opposition groups in the Syrian civil war. It formed on 11 November 2012 at a conference of opposition groups held in Doha, Qatar. It includes organisations such as the SNC. Islamic preacher Moaz al-Khatib serves as the president of the coalition, Riad Seif and Suheir Atassi were elected vice presidents. Mustafa Sabbagh is the coalition's secretary-general.....snip~

Syrian opposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
There wasn't enough of them. Check this out from 2011. Note all these Groups. Even the Kurds were included.




Opposition groups in Syria took a new turn in 2011 during the Syrian civil war as they united to form the Syrian National Council (SNC), which has received significant international support and recognition as a partner for dialogue. The Syrian National Council has been recognised or supported in some capacity by at least 17 member states of the United Nations, with three of those (France, United Kingdom and the United States) being permanent members of the Security Council.

A new opposition umbrella group — the National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces — was formed in November 2012 and has gained recognition as the "legitimate representative of the Syrian people" by the Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (CCASG) and as a "representative of aspirations of Syrian people" by the Arab League.

The National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces is a coalition of opposition groups in the Syrian civil war. It formed on 11 November 2012 at a conference of opposition groups held in Doha, Qatar. It includes organisations such as the SNC. Islamic preacher Moaz al-Khatib serves as the president of the coalition, Riad Seif and Suheir Atassi were elected vice presidents. Mustafa Sabbagh is the coalition's secretary-general.....snip~

Syrian opposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Had they received timely support they would have attracted more recruits. They would have had a chance.
 
Had they received timely support they would have attracted more recruits. They would have had a chance.

Even if they did receive the Support from us.....note ALL the groups. Also note especially the Muslim Brotherhood, which we know they aren't Secularists.

Check out post 15 and 16 in this thread from 2 years ago.


The National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces is a coalition of opposition groups in the Syrian civil war. It formed on 11 November 2012 at a conference of opposition groups held in Doha, Qatar. It includes organisations such as the SNC. Islamic preacher Moaz al-Khatib serves as the president of the coalition, Riad Seif and Suheir Atassi were elected vice presidents. Mustafa Sabbagh is the coalition's secretary-general.

The Syrian National Council, a coalition of Syrian opposition groups based in Istanbul, formed in 2011 during the Syrian civil war. Key people include chairman as of 2013 George Sabra, and former chairmen Burhan Ghalioun and Abdulbaset Sieda.

Muslim Brotherhood: Islamist party founded in 1930. The brotherhood was behind the Islamic uprising in Syria between 1976 until 1982. The party is banned in Syria and membership became a capital offence in 1980. The régime of Bashar al Assad, and others[who?], have accused the Muslim Brotherhood of being key players in the Syrian uprising that escalated into a civil war. Other sources have described the group as having "risen from the ashes", "resurrected itself" to be a dominant force in the uprising. Current leader is Ali Sadreddine Al-Bayanouni......snip~

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/171776-honor-syrian-rebels-w-90-a-2.html

Syrian opposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Maybe we should put that Hit Out on Ali Sadreddine Al-Bayanouni......so that MB knows exactly what their Future is going to be like. Let them Know.....we are coming for their Ass.

Even here in the US.....they have no place to hide anymore. No rock they can crawl under for safety.
 
Even if they did receive the Support from us.....note ALL the groups. Also note especially the Muslim Brotherhood, which we know they aren't Secularists.

Check out post 15 and 16 in this thread from 2 years ago.


The National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces is a coalition of opposition groups in the Syrian civil war. It formed on 11 November 2012 at a conference of opposition groups held in Doha, Qatar. It includes organisations such as the SNC. Islamic preacher Moaz al-Khatib serves as the president of the coalition, Riad Seif and Suheir Atassi were elected vice presidents. Mustafa Sabbagh is the coalition's secretary-general.

The Syrian National Council, a coalition of Syrian opposition groups based in Istanbul, formed in 2011 during the Syrian civil war. Key people include chairman as of 2013 George Sabra, and former chairmen Burhan Ghalioun and Abdulbaset Sieda.

Muslim Brotherhood: Islamist party founded in 1930. The brotherhood was behind the Islamic uprising in Syria between 1976 until 1982. The party is banned in Syria and membership became a capital offence in 1980. The régime of Bashar al Assad, and others[who?], have accused the Muslim Brotherhood of being key players in the Syrian uprising that escalated into a civil war. Other sources have described the group as having "risen from the ashes", "resurrected itself" to be a dominant force in the uprising. Current leader is Ali Sadreddine Al-Bayanouni......snip~

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/171776-honor-syrian-rebels-w-90-a-2.html

Syrian opposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Maybe we should put that Hit Out on Ali Sadreddine Al-Bayanouni......so that MB knows exactly what their Future is going to be like. Let them Know.....we are coming for their Ass.

Even here in the US.....they have no place to hide anymore. No rock they can crawl under for safety.

By November 2012 it was already too late. The secularists' moment was in the first third of 2012.
 
By November 2012 it was already too late. The secularists' moment was in the first third of 2012.

I know ....but what also was taking place. Was the MB's plans and protests. Which caused the Defections within Assad's Side. Which that goes back even before 2010.
 
I know ....but what also was taking place. Was the MB's plans and protests. Which caused the Defections within Assad's Side. Which that goes back even before 2010.

The secularist defectors from Asad's forces were not motivated by the MB.
 
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