• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Liberals and Conservatives: Are adherents of the rival ideology evil?

Well?

  • I'm a liberal: conservatives are evil

    Votes: 2 4.0%
  • I'm a conservative: liberals are evil

    Votes: 3 6.0%
  • I'm a liberal: conservatives aren't evil

    Votes: 20 40.0%
  • I'm a conservative: liberals aren't evil

    Votes: 11 22.0%
  • Ban Morality Games

    Votes: 14 28.0%

  • Total voters
    50
Funny you say that, because I firmly believe that that is a better descriptor for more right policies than left ones.

I also don't think you can call that evil, more just selfish and that's just part and parcel of human behaviour. We are selfish creatures by nature.

No there is a difference between being selfish and being evil. There is nothing wrong with looking to ones own interests and benefitting ourselves so long as it is done honorably and ethically. True conservatism as it is defined in modern day America strongly promotes that knowing that it ultimately is to the better benefit of all, even those who don't like it. Selfishness is unwillingness to share with others who are as deserving but sometimes it is necessary in order to achieve a higher goal. Evil is knowingly doing them harm simply because you want to harm them and/or for (the generic) your own benefit and there is rarely justification for that.
 
These poll numbers are so bogus. Getting real tired of this happening to nearly every poll.

What causes that? The obviously intentional skewing of polls. I've seen it happen in several lately.
 
Just as a side note, you can see the results without voting, there is an option for "See Results". Just an FYI for anyone who didn't know.

Ah okay. I never remember to look for that. :)
 
No there is a difference between being selfish and being evil. There is nothing wrong with looking to ones own interests and benefitting ourselves so long as it is done honorably and ethically. True conservatism as it is defined in modern day America strongly promotes that knowing that it ultimately is to the better benefit of all, even those who don't like it. Selfishness is unwillingness to share with others who are as deserving but sometimes it is necessary in order to achieve a higher goal. Evil is knowingly doing them harm simply because you want to harm them and/or for (the generic) your own benefit and there is rarely justification for that.

We agree then:

1. Selfishness and evilness are two different things.
2. Conservatism isn't evil, it's just selfish (albeit in an honorable manner).
 
Everything you said there can easily be turned around and stated about the "right" as well.

Generally speaking, the “conservative platform” of more individual freedom, smaller government, less government intrusion is just a pack of lies and/or feel-good words.

Anyone who chooses to do something, or behave in a way that’s not goose-stepping right along with the conservative/religious paradigm is “evil”.
Anyone who doesn't believe what you believe, and anyone who doesn't act like you act is “evil”.

Somewhat debatable. While there certainly are some rather intrusive Conservatives out there, most of us would much rather simply isolate ourselves from people with ideas or behaviors we don't like, rather than see them forcibly eliminated.

The ideological Left, generally speaking, tends to be a bit more proactive.

Perhaps a working definition of "evil" is required.

That which causes harm, unnecessary suffering, corruption, or non-beneficial disruption to established order, either to one's self, other people, or society in general.

Everything I mentioned applies.
 
Its meant to be a zero sum, bottom line question.

I don't identify enough with either ideology to cast a vote either way; I generally dislike conservatism more but more often than not wind up feeling every person who has ever existed is evil and that ideology is them showing their most evil side: unrelentingly hypocritical, unfailingly self-serving and self-congratulatory, and all round conceited.

In my better moments, I try to tell myself no one is evil.

I started a thread, a week or so ago, in which I asked readers to name one thing they LIKE about the viewpoint held by the party that is most different to their own.

As you can guess, I got about 3 replies.

All but the rarest few people in this world have enormously overinflated egos. We all think we're right about everything, we're insufferably inflexible when it comes to our core beliefs.

For that reason, I think the question you pose is a good one. I do believe each side tends to demonize the other. I do believe we are becoming increasingly polarized as well, to my dismay, which is perplexing considering how much smaller this increasingly interconnected world of ours gets by the day.

You would think we would figure out how to get along, but the exact opposite seems to be occurring.
 
What causes that? The obviously intentional skewing of polls. I've seen it happen in several lately.

Greetings, AlbqOwl. :2wave:

I have been advised by the poll itself that I have already voted, if I've forgotten, and voting boxes are disabled for me, so how can hundreds show up on a poll for or against something? We don't get hundreds of different people posting in a week, as far as I can tell, let alone voting on a poll. Since I don't always vote on the polls, it's no big deal, but it is weird!
 
We agree then:

1. Selfishness and evilness are two different things.
2. Conservatism isn't evil, it's just selfish (albeit in an honorable manner).

I disagree that conservatism is inherently selfish.

I also disagree that selfishness and evil are two different things. Ego is the root of all evil.
 
It's not hard to figure out. You don't have to be logged in to DP to vote in the polls section. So if someone wants to **** up the poll, just log out, vote, clear cookies, repeat.
 
No there is a difference between being selfish and being evil. There is nothing wrong with looking to ones own interests and benefitting ourselves so long as it is done honorably and ethically. True conservatism as it is defined in modern day America strongly promotes that knowing that it ultimately is to the better benefit of all, even those who don't like it. Selfishness is unwillingness to share with others who are as deserving but sometimes it is necessary in order to achieve a higher goal. Evil is knowingly doing them harm simply because you want to harm them and/or for (the generic) your own benefit and there is rarely justification for that.

I define selfishness as putting one's own needs above everyone else's.

"I need to have my birth control paid for by the state and you (rich people/taxpayers/whatever) can foot the bill" is selfish. In that way, progressives are selfish and evil.

"I will not give one dime of my hard earned money so that some immigrant kid can get an education" is selfish. In that way, conservatives are selfish and evil.

Evil and selfishness aren't bound to one political ideology.
 
I disagree with conservatives on just about every issue imaginable, but I do not think they are evil.
 
I disagree that conservatism is inherently selfish.

I also disagree that selfishness and evil are two different things. Ego is the root of all evil.

Well first of all I don't think selfishness is necessarily a bad thing.

Secondly I think that human nature is inherently selfish, we are driven to do what is best for ourselves. So to me, your statement suggests that human nature is inherently evil. I don't think that's true.
 
I define selfishness as putting one's own needs above everyone else's.

"I need to have my birth control paid for by the state and you (rich people/taxpayers/whatever) can foot the bill" is selfish. In that way, progressives are selfish and evil.

"I will not give one dime of my hard earned money so that some immigrant kid can get an education" is selfish. In that way, conservatives are selfish and evil.

Evil and selfishness aren't bound to one political ideology.

And if I, a male progressive (i.e. won't be using birth control anytime soon) think that birth control should be paid by the state, is that selfish and/or evil?
 
I think you make a real good point here to polarization in America.

A pair of surveys asked Americans a concrete question: in 1960, whether they would be “displeased” if their child married someone outside their political party, and, in 2010, would be “upset” if their child married someone of the other party. In 1960, about 5 percent of Americans expressed a negative reaction to party intermarriage; in 2010, about 40 percent did (Republicans about 50 percent, Democrats about 30 percent).

At that time the parties were not divided by ideological lines. There were liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats. Party affiliation did not indicate indicate ideology unless you factored in geographical differences, That probably accounts for the change in responses.
 
I define selfishness as putting one's own needs above everyone else's.

"I need to have my birth control paid for by the state and you (rich people/taxpayers/whatever) can foot the bill" is selfish. In that way, progressives are selfish and evil.

"I will not give one dime of my hard earned money so that some immigrant kid can get an education" is selfish. In that way, conservatives are selfish and evil.

Evil and selfishness aren't bound to one political ideology.

The actual liberal/progressive position is "Low income people need access to birth control that they can afford so they can plan their families and their lives more effectively, which will reduce their need for assistance in the future."
 
Would you say some NAZIs were good NAZIs?

godwin3yn.jpg
 
Well first of all I don't think selfishness is necessarily a bad thing.

Secondly I think that human nature is inherently selfish, we are driven to do what is best for ourselves. So to me, your statement suggests that human nature is inherently evil. I don't think that's true.

A lot of human nature is inherently evil. A big part of being a good, moral person is learning to use the rational part of one's brain to override impulses.

For example, a married person might look at another woman and desire her, but a good man controls his impulses and goes home to his wife.

A person cuts you off in traffic, the impulse might be to get out of your car and smash the hood of his car. A good man learns to control his temper.

In fact, this has a basis in psychology. The use of the rational part of the brain to override base impulses is called "executive function," and psychologists consider it part of the makeup of an intelligent and well-functioning human being.

If you prefer Freud, morality is moving from being id-based to ego, and ultimately superego.

If you prefer Skinner, morality is a set of learned behaviors that are socially acceptable.

If you prefer Maslow, it's about moving from physiological needs to safety, then to social needs, then to self-esteem needs, and finally, the ultimate goal of any human being is self-actualization where one becomes selfless in nature.
 
And if I, a male progressive (i.e. won't be using birth control anytime soon) think that birth control should be paid by the state, is that selfish and/or evil?

No, I'm not saying that all progressives (or that all conservatives for that matter) are evil. The point was that selfishness and evil transcend political leans, and that it really boils down to thoughts, feelings, and motivation which manifest themselves in various ways.

There are plenty of progressives and conservatives who have good, selfless motives behind their belief structure. Just as there are plenty who are "takers" by nature.
 
The actual liberal/progressive position is "Low income people need access to birth control that they can afford so they can plan their families and their lives more effectively, which will reduce their need for assistance in the future."

I don't think there's one unifying liberal/progressive position outside of "birth control should be paid for by the state." Only God can see in to the hearts of men, as it were.

Some people, I'm sure, do rationalize the way you've described. Others don't. Progressives run the gamut.
 
A surprise, very much so ... not even close to what I thought the outcome would be ..
I choose Morality Games ... I did not care for the selections .
"Normal liberalism, regular conservatism cannot be evil ... silly to even think this
What is "evil" ,of course, is extremism ... particularly conservative extremism ..
 
Which only goes to show the futility of moral relativism. If good and evil is subject to the whims of individual or even cultural tastes, then the distinction becomes meaningless.

Was the Nazi extermination of Jews and other “undesirables” evil? I think most today universally recognize it as one of the greatest examples of pure evil in recent history, but by the [lack of any meaningful] standard that you seem to advocate, it couldn't be evil, because it was approved by the society in which it occurred, and allowed by the laws thereof.

All morals are, by definition, relative. That doesn't mean that different societies cannot choose what morals to value and what morals to reject, in fact, that's really how morality works. Nobody can show that their individual moral views are factually accurate or true though, it's all opinion, even yours. In WWII, a lot of countries decided to fight against Hitler, more because of his expansionism than because of his views. In fact, one of the major reasons that the U.S. and Britain advocated giving Israel to the Jews is because they felt bad that they hadn't really paid much attention to the Holocaust early in the war. Two sides fought. One side won. The winners write the history. If Hitler had won and taken over any significant part of the world, there likely would be a very different story in the history books today.

This kind of "objective morality" arguing is really a bunch of "I'm right, so there!" without having to actually demonstrate that your views are true.

So, if Nazi Germany had won the war, would their treatment of the Jews and other “undesirables” have been fully justified?

Was the Holocaust evil, or wasn't it? I think this is a simple, objective question, with a solid, one-word answer. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to answer it.
 
I define selfishness as putting one's own needs above everyone else's.

"I need to have my birth control paid for by the state and you (rich people/taxpayers/whatever) can foot the bill" is selfish. In that way, progressives are selfish and evil.

"I will not give one dime of my hard earned money so that some immigrant kid can get an education" is selfish. In that way, conservatives are selfish and evil.

Evil and selfishness aren't bound to one political ideology.

You're confusing selfishness with greed.

Selfishness is an unwillingness to share with others, what is rightfully yours.

Greed is a desire take for yourself, or for some purpose that you support, that which rightfully belongs to others.

Greed is inherently evil, but selfishness is not necessarily. A person certainly has much more right to determine what use is to be made of what is rightfully his own, than someone else does.

It is ironic that liberals like to accuse conservatives of being greedy, when it is liberal positions that call for taking what is not theirs, to be used for their pet causes; which therefore makes liberals the ones who are actually guilty of greed.
 
Back
Top Bottom