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Should the US finally switch over to the metric system?

Should the US finally switch to the metric system?

  • Total voters
    50
Goshin said:
I learned metric in the 70s, when the initiative to change was on, and before it flopped.


I'm good with meters, kilometers, liters, all that stuff.... found it very handy in doing scientific calculations too.


The one I STILL have trouble with is Celsius vs Fahrenheit.... I can't seem to stop thinking in Fahrenheit and struggle convert C to F in my head.
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In most other sorts of units, there are indeed mathematical advantages to using them. Given the great effort that was made in the 1970s to get us to convert to Metric, and the colossal failure of that effort, I have to conclude that we Americans find it more advantageous to continue using the units with which we are familiar.

Temperature is an exception. There really is no advantage to the Celsius scale over the Fahrenheit scale. Both are based on setting the zero and hundred points according to arbitrary criteria (though the Celsius scales' criteria are perhaps, slightly more meaningful that Fahrenheit's), and scaling the units to fit those points. It's more difficult to convert between the two scales, because it's not just a simple factor conversion.

If we wanted to switch to a temperature scale that actually made sense, we'd should switch to one like the Kelvin scale, where zero really is zero. Both Celsius and Fahrenheit are like measuring lengths with a ruler that has zero somewhere in the middle, and anything shorter than that is deemed to have a negative length.
 
Declan said:
Would a billion new highway signs really substantially improve infrastructure?
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YES , no doubt thousands are obsolete, in design and condition ..
Other more mature, more advanced nations have done this .. and more !
Had we more liberal leadership centuries ago, this conversion (and others) would have been so much easier ..
 
earthworm said:
YES , no doubt thousands are obsolete, in design and condition ..
Other more mature, more advanced nations have done this .. and more !
Had we more liberal leadership centuries ago, this conversion (and others) would have been so much easier ..
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We could sell advertisements on the new signs to cut costs or allow companies to sponsor roads like bowl games. You take Viagra until you get to the stop sign and then you turn left down the Hershey Highway.
 
Goshin said:
The one I STILL have trouble with is Celsius vs Fahrenheit.... I can't seem to stop thinking in Fahrenheit and struggle convert C to F in my head.
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Multiply by 1.8 and add 32.
 
roguenuke said:
Most people have plenty of time to look up the necessary conversions. It really isn't that hard to do. And if they don't have the "skills", "ability" to actually perform those conversions, then they have seriously bigger issues than whatever is requiring those conversions to begin with.
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However, in order to be fully functional in a measurement system its best to have the ability to think in that system without having to go through a conversion process. The same is true of learning a new language. I know intuitively 75 degrees and breezy is a nice day weather wise. 24 degrees Celsius means nothing to me without looking it up.

In all objectivity, metric makes way more sense as a measurement system. Celsius, the units temperature is measured is indexed to the temperature at which water freezes and boils; zero is ice and 100 is boiling water. Meters are indexed to the distance between the north or South Pole and the equator. There are probably very logical benchmarks on volume and weight too but I haven't looked.

I say we use both concurrently for the benefit of international commerce if nothing else.
 
SlevinKelevra said:
What about those who don't give 2 craps that Europe uses it, but rather wish our children learned about units that have fundamental definitions based on real scientific properties.
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Tell us about these "fundamental definitions based on real scientific properties." The only one I know about is a pint weighing roughly a pound.
 
Smeagol said:
However, in order to be fully functional in a measurement system its best to have the ability to think in that system without having to go through a conversion process. The same is true of learning a new language. I know intuitively 75 degrees and breezy is a nice day weather wise. 24 degrees Celsius means nothing to me without looking it up.

In all objectivity, metric makes way more sense as a measurement system. Celsius, the units temperature is measured is indexed to the temperature at which water freezes and boils; zero is ice and 100 is boiling water. Meters are indexed to the distance between the north or South Pole and the equator. There are probably very logical benchmarks on volume and weight too but I haven't looked.

I say we use both concurrently for the benefit of international commerce if nothing else.
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Is it possible that you are confusing meters with nautical miles?

I know that a nautical mile is defined as a minute of arc at the Earth's surface. If you go north or south, such that your latitude changes by one minute, then you've travelled a nautical mile.


Ice and steam aren't really as meaningful as one assumes them to be, in arguing for the Celsius scale. Just arbitrary points, and the fact remains that “zero” is still defined very far away from true zero.

Daniel Fahrenheit defined his zero as the coldest temperature that he could produce using ice and salt, and his hundred according to his own body temperature (apparently, he was sick with a fever, at the time).
 
Hard Truth said:
Tell us about these "fundamental definitions based on real scientific properties." The only one I know about is a pint weighing roughly a pound.
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Well, 1ml of water weighs 1gram. It also measures 1cc.

How much does a liter of milk weigh? ~1 kg. How about a half gallon? Don't know...get a scale!

You can do a lot with that- volume, weight and area are all proportional and easily multipled and divided.
 
Threegoofs said:
We are basically the last country to not use the metric system in our day to day lives - we measure temperature in Farenheit, distances in feet.yards and miles, and have a ridiculous volume and weight measurement system of cups, ounces, quarts, gallons, etc.

Its an antiquated system that costs the US milions each year by having to convert, tool things in english units (5/8 in wrenches?) etc. Our kids need to learn both systems, and tend to learn neither well.

Why is there no active movement in the US to upgrade our systems?

Why dont we just bite the bullet and change already?

Nice article that may jump start the popular cry: Why Americans still use Fahrenheit long after everyone else switched to Celsius - Vox
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Yes its long passed due . . .
Funny thing is not only have the majority of countries converted but science and medical industries already have too .. . the hold out is that we simply haven't done it everywhere.
 
Smeagol said:
However, in order to be fully functional in a measurement system its best to have the ability to think in that system without having to go through a conversion process. The same is true of learning a new language. I know intuitively 75 degrees and breezy is a nice day weather wise. 24 degrees Celsius means nothing to me without looking it up.

In all objectivity, metric makes way more sense as a measurement system. Celsius, the units temperature is measured is indexed to the temperature at which water freezes and boils; zero is ice and 100 is boiling water. Meters are indexed to the distance between the north or South Pole and the equator. There are probably very logical benchmarks on volume and weight too but I haven't looked.

I say we use both concurrently for the benefit of international commerce if nothing else.
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Yet every child can easily learn 32 for freezing and 212 for boiling. It isn't that hard. People are acting like this is some hindrance to us. It isn't. I've never had any issue with it, despite traveling to other countries that use the metric system. If you are living in those countries, you adapt, just as others do coming to our country. Not really a huge deal. The industries that might have issues can deal with those, can adapt and have been doing so.
 
Threegoofs said:
Well, 1ml of water weighs 1gram. It also measures 1cc.

How much does a liter of milk weigh? ~1 kg. How about a half gallon? Don't know...get a scale!

You can do a lot with that- volume, weight and area are all proportional and easily multipled and divided.
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1/2 gallon of water is about 4.25 lbs (I know this because 1 gallon of water is about 8.5 lbs, milk is likely to be around the same).
 
Smeagol said:
I say we use both concurrently for the benefit of international commerce if nothing else.
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We currently do for stuff that is international. I semi routinely run freight to Canada. With the US originating load going to a Canadian consignee or shipper, we get two documents, one bill of lading which the weight of the cargo is denoted in pounds, and the commercial invoice for the foreign consignee in which the freight is denoted in kilograms.

I understand what you're talking about being able to use both system seamlessly, but for how infrequently I use metrics that is pointless. In Canada when I pull into a waystation their way stations measure weight in kilograms, but if I scale a load at a truck stop scale in the United States, certified weight is in pounds and not kilograms, so I have to do a conversion to make sure I'm within the weight boundaries.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
We currently do for stuff that is international. I semi routinely run freight to Canada. With the US originating load going to a Canadian consignee or shipper, we get two documents, one bill of lading which the weight of the cargo is denoted in pounds, and the commercial invoice for the foreign consignee in which the freight is denoted in kilograms.

I understand what you're talking about being able to use both system seamlessly, but for how infrequently I use metrics that is pointless. In Canada when I pull into a waystation their way stations measure weight in kilograms, but if I scale a load at a truck stop scale in the United States, certified weight is in pounds and not kilograms, so I have to do a conversion to make sure I'm within the weight boundaries.
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hmmph, the haulers I use to go into Canada tell me they can get scaled in pounds in Canada, but they usually have to ask.

you can also get scaled in Kilograms in the US... but its the same way, ya gotta ask.


as a side note, if you're legal in the US, you're legal in Canada... but the inverse doesn't apply...Canada allows for heavier loads ( sometimes much much heavier.. I think their max is about 140k compared to our max of 80k without permits)
 
Thrilla said:
hmmph, the haulers I use to go into Canada tell me they can get scaled in pounds in Canada, but they usually have to ask.

you can also get scaled in Kilograms in the US... but its the same way, ya gotta ask.


as a side note, if you're legal in the US, you're legal in Canada... but the inverse doesn't apply...Canada allows for heavier loads ( sometimes much much heavier.. I think their max is about 140k compared to our max of 80k without permits)
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Yes except for one thing, Canada has different bridge laws in the United States. I am very limited as to where I can set the trailer tandems to shift weight. There are limited circumstances where you can make a load US legal but Canada illegal and vice versa. I did one run where I had to shift the trailer axles all the way forward to scale the load legal in the United States, then right before I got to the border shift the axles back and then the load was US illegal but Canada legal. That type of stuff you have to be really careful with.

I wasn't aware I could ask for kilogram Weighs on a cat scale, but Canadian weigh stations wait only in kilograms, as do many shipper scales, which necessitates doing metric to pound conversions if you pick up a Canadian originating load bound for the United States
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Yes except for one thing, Canada has different bridge laws in the United States. I am very limited as to where I can set the trailer tandems to shift weight. There are limited circumstances where you can make a load US legal but Canada illegal and vice versa. I did one run where I had to shift the trailer axles all the way forward to scale the load legal in the United States, then right before I got to the border shift the axles back and then the load was US illegal but Canada legal. That type of stuff you have to be really careful with.

I wasn't aware I could ask for kilogram Weighs on a cat scale, but Canadian weigh stations wait only in kilograms, as do many shipper scales, which necessitates doing metric to pound conversions if you pick up a Canadian originating load bound for the United States
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damn Canadians ..they oughta stop being lazy and adopt the US imperial system :lol:

I hear ya though...I work from mainly a shippers POV( import/export).. not so much a truckers POV anymore....I get the occasional load to Canada, but most of my deals are in maritime shipping to South America ( which is a whole new multileveled cluster****)
 
Threegoofs said:
Yeah. Easy conversions.

What about 18.5 ounces? Quick!
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What for? You act like there is going to be some life or death situation to convert. Honestly, that is an irrational argument for the vast majority of the time. The only time it may come to life or death would be in medicine, and that is already in mL.
 
roguenuke said:
What for? You act like there is going to be some life or death situation to convert. Honestly, that is an irrational argument for the vast majority of the time. The only time it may come to life or death would be in medicine, and that is already in mL.
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I'm a pharmacist. It's often life and death situations.

And sometimes it's ml, sometimes it's tsp, sometimes it's tbsp.

That causes overdoses and underdoses. I would guess it does it every single day in kids.
 
Yea lets change our language too. We can still speak English but it has to be like how the rest of the world speaks English. And we can all watch Soccer instead. Oh wait its called football because they use their feet. See it makes much more sense. Dont worry about that culture thing only other countries have culture.
 
Threegoofs said:
I'm a pharmacist. It's often life and death situations.

And sometimes it's ml, sometimes it's tsp, sometimes it's tbsp.

That causes overdoses and underdoses. I would guess it does it every single day in kids.
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Then someone is being irresponsible, either the pharmacist or the doctor or the parent with looking into the actual dosages and making sure the person has the right measuring spoon/injector. I always made sure to check and go off of what the dosage said. Plus, I've never gotten children's medicine measuring instruments that didn't have both metric and standard on them.
 
roguenuke said:
Then someone is being irresponsible, either the pharmacist or the doctor or the parent with looking into the actual dosages and making sure the person has the right measuring spoon/injector. I always made sure to check and go off of what the dosage said. Plus, I've never gotten children's medicine measuring instruments that didn't have both metric and standard on them.
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It's just confusion among parents, mostly.

But it happens a lot. And it's just another very clear reason why changing makes sense, despite your repeated claims that its 'no problem'.
 
Threegoofs said:
It's just confusion among parents, mostly.

But it happens a lot. And it's just another very clear reason why changing makes sense, despite your repeated claims that its 'no problem'.
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It really isn't a relatively large problem, but in the case of medicine, I have no issue if people change and I doubt it would cost that much, if anything, to switch over medicine amounts to mL, as I've said, many doctors are already doing (even some hospitals specify what it is in both). It won't get rid of all the issues though with incorrect dosing of children's medicine because there will always be parents who take shortcuts or get too busy to actually read/pay attention.

I'm not saying people should hold on to the standard system just because. I'm saying that for most industries, it is way too costly to do right now, or even in the near future. Machinery and parts, along with tools would all have to be changed out, a very expensive and time consuming operation. It simply is not feasible, especially in a way that will likely get enough public support to actually be effective. And it should not be mandatory to do.
 
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