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Does Jeb Bush have a Terri Schiavo Problem?

Does Jeb Bush Have a Schiavo Problem?


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Good morning, CJ. :2wave:

Obama is helping the best way he can by giving millions of illegals drivers licenses and job cards, thereby giving them an ID to vote Democrat! Oh wait - maybe he won't much care how they vote in 2016 since he'll be leaving, but I truly pity whoever it is that inherits what he's going to leave them, and it doesn't matter what party they are. He doesn't like the Clintons, and he's called the Rebs his "enemies," so that may be a win either way in his book. The downside will be having to lower the standard of living he has enjoyed for the past six years, which includes having to start paying for his own multi-million dollar vacations though, and that's going to be really tough on his family budget. :shock:

don't get too excited
i predict Michelle will be running for political office on or before 2020
she's smart and now has an extensive political network
unlike hillary, i would vote for Michelle in a skinny minute
 
I'm glad for you. I would want my parents making decisions for me. I would also want to make decisions for my kids.

Moderate voters who wouldn't vote for a pro-life candidate weren't going to vote for Jeb anyway.

Scary..... I thought the point was once you're an Adult you're outside of your parents sphere

And by the way, where were Terry's ever so loving parents when she was starving herself down to nothing which is what caused her cardiac arrest in that whole ordeal in the first place?
 
Yes, I know. Her parents were terrible people. Not sure what Hannity and Fox have to do with my post. The section to complain about them is that way.------>

what is so terrible about not wanting your daughter to die?
personally, i would have made the other choice, but i can see no motivation for the anguished parents to pursue their legal actions but to enable their daughter to breath for another day. is that really so terrible
 
The husband asked the state to get involved.

The State could get involved without Bush taking sides. He chose to be on the side of Schiavo's parents, and he should have remained neutral on the subject.
 
They intervened because they were trying to appease themselves. You may find it hard to believe, but Republicans have convictions too, and don't do everything solely to "appease" others.

Greetings, tres borrachos. :2wave:

If I recall, it was her parents who wanted her to be kept alive, because she was somewhat cognizant and aware of things, and I can't say I fault them. Her husband was the one who wanted to pull the plug, and we later learned his motivations! It became a case of family in-fighting which went to court, and Florida decided on the side of keeping her alive. She had not committed a crime - why should the State be put in the position of being the executioner of someone who had done nothing wrong? If I were Jeb Bush, I would have made the same decision! Miracles may not be commonplace, but they do occur!
 
what is so terrible about not wanting your daughter to die?
personally, i would have made the other choice, but i can see no motivation for the anguished parents to pursue their legal actions but to enable their daughter to breath for another day. is that really so terrible

Once again my sarcasm didn't translate well on to the message board. I'm not the one who disagrees with you. It's the others on here who do, from the one who called Terri a "creature" to the one i posted to there who was bashing her parents for wanting to keep their daughter alive.
 
Good morning, CJ. :2wave:

Obama is helping the best way he can by giving millions of illegals drivers licenses and job cards, thereby giving them an ID to vote Democrat! Oh wait - maybe he won't much care how they vote in 2016 since he'll be leaving, but I truly pity whoever it is that inherits what he's going to leave them, and it doesn't matter what party they are. He doesn't like the Clintons, and he's called the Rebs his "enemies," so that may be a win either way in his book. The downside will be having to lower the standard of living he has enjoyed for the past six years, which includes having to start paying for his own multi-million dollar vacations though, and that's going to be really tough on his family budget. :shock:

I'm sorta confused why its bad when a democrat does it and ignored when a republican does it. And this one could be president too!

TALLAHASSEE - Gov. Jeb Bush on Monday strongly endorsed issuing state
driver's licenses to illegal immigrants... Hundreds of thousands of
people could be affected by the proposal, which is currently making
its way through the Florida Legislature. Sen. Rudy Garcia, a Hialeah
Republican pushing the measure in the Senate, says it would enable
those stuck in immigration limbo to drive with valid licenses and get
insurance while they work to become citizens. "Our roads and streets
will be safer because of this," Garcia said...


http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040407/news_1n7drivers.html
 
Scary..... I thought the point was once you're an Adult you're outside of your parents sphere

And by the way, where were Terry's ever so loving parents when she was starving herself down to nothing which is what caused her cardiac arrest in that whole ordeal in the first place?

You have to ask them. I'm not Terri's parents.

Your kids cease being your kids when they turn 18. Mine don't.
 
What if it is their wish expressed by a bitter angry hate filled little man like her husband but not that of her entire family?

I assume since this all 'matters' to you, you followed it while it was playing out...right? Which side came across as loving and caring and with her best interest at heart and which side came across as being pissed they couldnt keep the money and marry their new squeeze and didnt at all present as if they actually gave half a **** about her or anyone else but what HE wanted ?

Hmmmm...I think that question MAY be a little bit biased and leading...

She was effectively brain dead. Her brain had atrophied to the size of a walnut.

This is a normal brain on the right with Shiavo's brain on the left:

Schiavo_catscan.jpg

For all intents and purposes that woman was dead long before they pulled that feeding tube. She was a shell being kept functioning by life support. She was an adult and thus her husband at the time of her injury was the one whom society tasks to act in her medical interest. If she wanted her parents to make those kinds of decisions then she could have given her parents power of attorney when she was a health adult. However, she didn't because hardly anyone would want their parents to make such a decision. All of us who are married leave those decisions to our spouse. Now you can belittle her former husband all you want, but its irrelevant to the case.
 
They intervened because they were trying to appease themselves. You may find it hard to believe, but Republicans have convictions too, and don't do everything solely to "appease" others.

They intervened because ultimately social conservatism is an authoritarian ideology. They believed that they had the responsibility in government to intervene in a personal medical decision. If that isn't authoritarianism, then I don't know what is.
 
Greetings, tres borrachos. :2wave:

If I recall, it was her parents who wanted her to be kept alive, because she was somewhat cognizant and aware of things, and I can't say I fault them. Her husband was the one who wanted to pull the plug, and we later learned his motivations! It became a case of family in-fighting which went to court, and Florida decided on the side of keeping her alive. She had not committed a crime - why should the State be put in the position of being the executioner of someone who had done nothing wrong? If I were Jeb Bush, I would have made the same decision! Miracles may not be commonplace, but they do occur!

You are remembering this differently than me. I remember her being cognizant of nothing, and hadn't been for many years. She was a complete vegetable, and her wishes, according to her husband, were to not be allowed to remain alive in a vegetative state. And I'm not sure what "motivations" you are talking about. The other woman? Terri was in a persistant vegetative state for 3 years when he met this woman. The money? There are arguments on both sides about that.
 
I'm glad for you. I would want my parents making decisions for me. I would also want to make decisions for my kids.

Moderate voters who wouldn't vote for a pro-life candidate weren't going to vote for Jeb anyway.

Are you married? And if you are married you would honestly want your parents making decisions as to your care in the case you were effectively brain dead rather than your husband? Why would you not trust your spouse with such a decision if you are married?
 
You have to ask them. I'm not Terri's parents.

Your kids cease being your kids when they turn 18. Mine don't.

Kids should cease being kids at 18 and become adults.... Besides it's well established at law that your spouse has power of attorney over you should someone be needed to make medical decisions on your behalf. If that scares you, you need a different spouse. Or a living will drawn up by an actual attorney.

The schindlers were grief striken parents, but their position was irrational, Terri was a vegetable, it was established on two different trials and 5 appeals in 14 different courts. And the autopsy afterward. I don't want to be kept alive for 13 years under those circumstances, and thank god I live in a state not run by emotional right wing nut jobs who will send state troopers in defiance of my (or a future spouses) wishes.

She was never going to improve. Simple as that, there was zero constitutional authority for jeb to have intervened in any way

Btw my mother does have power of attorney over me becuase I'm unmarried but other the hat I live independently of her, I also have a living will describing exactly what my wishes are if I'm brain dead and multiple trusted relatives and a friend of mine since fifth grade have been given a copy of that well so that there are multiple people who understand what my wishes are and there is no confusion
 
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They intervened because ultimately social conservatism is an authoritarian ideology. They believed that they had the responsibility in government to intervene in a personal medical decision. If that isn't authoritarianism, then I don't know what is.

The government intervenes in "personal medical decisions" all the time. The government decides who pays for medical decisions, and who has to have insurance coverage for our personal medical decisions, and what personal medical decisions are covered by Medicare and Medicaid, and how old you have to be to have an abortion, and what drug is approved for treatment and what hospitals and doctors are licensed, and so on. If you think Terri Schiavo was the one and only time that government intervened in health care, I've wasted 30 seconds of typing.
 
Are you married? And if you are married you would honestly want your parents making decisions as to your care in the case you were effectively brain dead rather than your husband? Why would you not trust your spouse with such a decision if you are married?

I'm married and I have 3 children. If my parents, who are both dead, felt that a decision my husband was making on my behalf was not the right one, then they would be free to fight it as Terri Schivao's parents did because of what they believed. If one of my sons was terribly injured and I believed in my heart he could survive, and his wife didn't and wanted to terminate him, I may or may not act as her parents did. But if I did, I wouldn't owe anyone an explanation.
 
Kids should cease being kids at 18 and become adults.... Besides it's well established at law that your spouse has power of attorney over you should someone be needed to make medical decisions on your behalf. If that scares you, you need a different spouse. Or a living will drawn up by an actual attorney.

The schindlers were grief striken parents, but their position was irrational, Terri was a vegetable, it was established on two different trials and 5 appeals in 14 different courts. And the autopsy afterward. I don't want to be kept alive for 13 years under those circumstances, and thank god I live in a state not run by emotional right wing nut jobs who will send state troopers in defiance of my (or a future spouses) wishes.

She was never going to improve. Simple as that, there was zero constitutional authority for jeb to have intervened in any way

Thank you for sharing your medical expertise with me, but this case was legislated 10 years ago. I have a living will, but thank you for the legal advice as well.
 
The government intervenes in "personal medical decisions" all the time. The government decides who pays for medical decisions, and who has to have insurance coverage for our personal medical decisions, and what personal medical decisions are covered by Medicare and Medicaid, and how old you have to be to have an abortion, and what drug is approved for treatment and what hospitals and doctors are licensed, and so on. If you think Terri Schiavo was the one and only time that government intervened in health care, I've wasted 30 seconds of typing.

How often does the federal government and the state governor intervene in a specific medical case? You can't compare Medicare rules which apply to everyone in the program to a governor or congress intervening in a specific medical case.
 
I'm sorta confused why its bad when a democrat does it and ignored when a republican does it. And this one could be president too!

TALLAHASSEE - Gov. Jeb Bush on Monday strongly endorsed issuing state
driver's licenses to illegal immigrants... Hundreds of thousands of
people could be affected by the proposal, which is currently making
its way through the Florida Legislature. Sen. Rudy Garcia, a Hialeah
Republican pushing the measure in the Senate, says it would enable
those stuck in immigration limbo to drive with valid licenses and get
insurance while they work to become citizens. "Our roads and streets
will be safer because of this," Garcia said...


Jeb Bush backs illegal-immigrant driver licenses | The San Diego Union-Tribune

I was not aware that Jeb Bush endorsed this! It's still not right, no matter who does it! They are here illegally, which means they broke our immigration laws, Monte! How are they "stuck in immigration limbo" as claimed by Garcia? You did note that he included "and get insurance," didn't you? Nothing has prevented them from working to become citizens prior to this, except their decision not to bother with that detail. This is only pandering from both sides for political reasons to get votes, IMO, not to mention the revenue they hope to gain. :2mad: This Country has always welcomed legal immigrants, and that's good. Why should any of our laws have to be changed to accommodate illegals?
 
How often does the federal government and the state governor intervene in a specific medical case? You can't compare Medicare rules which apply to everyone in the program to a governor or congress intervening in a specific medical case.

Then don't vote for him. Problem solved.
 
That's very compassionate towards her parents. By the way, there are a lot of "creatures" in hospitals and hospices today whose heads are "full of Jello". Do you suggest we just terminate these "creatures" once and for all today?

Of course I do. They are not human beings anymore. Without brains they are the living dead. Why would you want to preserve dead peoples bodies? It is sick.
 
I'm married and I have 3 children. If my parents, who are both dead, felt that a decision my husband was making on my behalf was not the right one, then they would be free to fight it as Terri Schivao's parents did because of what they believed. If one of my sons was terribly injured and I believed in my heart he could survive, and his wife didn't and wanted to terminate him, I may or may not act as her parents did. But if I did, I wouldn't owe anyone an explanation.

Of course you would be free to act as I would be free to act once my kids were grown as well, and my father would be free to act if I were in that situation. However I would stand little chance of prevailing and my father would stand little chance of prevailing because the law - for good reason - puts those types of decisions clearly at the feet of the spouse and not the parents.
 
Kids should cease being kids at 18 and become adults.... Besides it's well established at law that your spouse has power of attorney over you should someone be needed to make medical decisions on your behalf. If that scares you, you need a different spouse. Or a living will drawn up by an actual attorney.

The schindlers were grief striken parents, but their position was irrational, Terri was a vegetable, it was established on two different trials and 5 appeals in 14 different courts. And the autopsy afterward. I don't want to be kept alive for 13 years under those circumstances, and thank god I live in a state not run by emotional right wing nut jobs who will send state troopers in defiance of my (or a future spouses) wishes.

She was never going to improve. Simple as that, there was zero constitutional authority for jeb to have intervened in any way

Btw my mother does have power of attorney over me becuase I'm unmarried but other the hat I live independently of her, I also have a living will describing exactly what my wishes are if I'm brain dead and multiple trusted relatives and a friend of mine since fifth grade have been given a copy of that well so that there are multiple people who understand what my wishes are and there is no confusion

This ^

You summed it up perfectly and there is no rational argument to be made against anything you just wrote.
 
Theres a whole lot of people that fit that category. Shall we just start offing them?

If their brains are gone they are already dead. You wish to preserve their lifeless bodies because?
 
Of course you would be free to act as I would be free to act once my kids were grown as well, and my father would be free to act if I were in that situation. However I would stand little chance of prevailing and my father would stand little chance of prevailing because the law - for good reason - puts those types of decisions clearly at the feet of the spouse and not the parents.

Are you sharing this with me because you want my approval, or because you think this is what's being discussed? The topic of this thread is how this will impact Jeb Bush politically, not how you would react if Terri Schiavo were your daughter.
 
I was not aware that Jeb Bush endorsed this! It's still not right, no matter who does it! They are here illegally, which means they broke our immigration laws, Monte! How are they "stuck in immigration limbo" as claimed by Garcia? You did note that he included "and get insurance," didn't you? Nothing has prevented them from working to become citizens prior to this, except their decision not to bother with that detail. This is only pandering from both sides for political reasons to get votes, IMO, not to mention the revenue they hope to gain. :2mad: This Country has always welcomed legal immigrants, and that's good. Why should any of our laws have to be changed to accommodate illegals?

Oh no, I think you misunderstand my position. I'm not the one that thinks that there stuck in limbo. I'm against giving illegals drivers licenses. But while the the right seems busy blaming it all on the left, the illegals are getting them and both parties are handing them out.
 
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