• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

National Legalization of Marijuana [W:237]

Legal Weed: For or Against


  • Total voters
    75
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Because there is NOT libertarian government rule in Colorado. The legalization of marijuana (a decidedly LibertariaN goal for decades) will not be accompanied by a libertarian approach to social services. Use has already been shown to have skyrocketed, with use increasing in kids as young as age 12. Use of other illegal drugs have also increased during that same time period. National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2013

There is a dirty little secret. SOME people can use marijuana just like they use alcohol. Function perfectly well during the week, hang out, smoke a few joints and get mellow once or twice during the week and maybe get lit on the weekend...life is good. Others...others are addicts. Psychological addiction comes with a cost. Homelessness, joblessness, increase in crime, increase in health care costs, to say nothing of the increase in those populations from homeless people in other states moving to a state with friendlier drug rules. Its far too early to tell what kind of long term impact it will actually have on schooling, graduation rates, college attendance, job prep, etc.

Will there be identified gains? Sure. Incarceration costs may immediately decrease. And as far as 'addictions' go, its an easily treated disorder. Essentially...there is no treatment for marijuana addiction. But...all addicts tend to suffer greater health problems. Someone is going to have to foot the bill. To that end, Colorado would be wise to bank that money.

Absolutely correct, I spent some time at a rehab for teens and young adults, visiting a family member, over the past year or so. Whoever thinks marijuana is harmless should spend some time working with kids who have been affected by addiction. Horrible outcomes.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

That may be true, but I'm not of the view that because we have one product that people can abuse, we might as well have 2, or 5, or 10 products they can abuse.

I'd say that in most sectors pot is an occasional treat. If it were legalized and easily accessible, use is likely to increase, and it remains to be seen how that will affect society long-term.

Yes, well, we can give it 10 years.

For me it's about the Constitution and people's rights. If alcohol isnt something the govt is prohibiting, then something thus far with many less health and societal implications should also not be prohibited.

Keep in mind, pot use is widespread (not an occasional treat)...legal or not and in the states where legal....not much different has occurred, including any uptick in usage (except for out of state tourism.)

People tend to be less violent, less abusive, and less inclined to have car accidents on pot than alcohol. There are also less health implications.

This country has more important things to focus on. (And I dont use it)
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

That may be true, but I'm not of the view that because we have one product that people can abuse, we might as well have 2, or 5, or 10 products they can abuse.

If you're goal is to reduce use, then how can you prefer the status quo after ~80 years of costly failure, when in half that time we've reduce tobacco usage in the U.S. 50% without banning it?

Why won't the tobacco model work with marijuana?


I'd say that in most sectors pot is an occasional treat. If it were legalized and easily accessible, use is likely to increase, and it remains to be seen how that will affect society long-term.

If\when we find out there is no significant damage to society, will you support decriminalization then?

Do you have no faith in the existing studies of the effects of marijuana? Governments have been studying its impact since the 1890s, and not one scientific study has concluded it should be banned outright.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I think a distinction should be made.

The Marijuana thats available today is not the marijuana that was sold 20 or 30 or even 40 years ago.

Thanks to hydroponics Marijuana can be extremely potent and have highly debilitating effects on the user

Its a dishonest comparison to say its akin to a few drinks and its outright misinformation to claim its " healthy " and or not harmful.

Keep it illegal exept for cases where it may help with the side effects of certain Cancer treatments.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I think a distinction should be made.

The Marijuana thats available today is not the marijuana that was sold 20 or 30 or even 40 years ago.

Thanks to hydroponics Marijuana can be extremely potent and have highly debilitating effects on the user

Its a dishonest comparison to say its akin to a few drinks and its outright misinformation to claim its " healthy " and or not harmful.

Keep it illegal exept for cases where it may help with the side effects of certain Cancer treatments.

Highly debilitating.

Please tell me how many people have died of an overdose of marijuana in the last 50 years.

BTW, I grow tomatoes hydroponically, they aren't extremely potent, just delicious.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I'm against the legalization of marijuana strictly for personal reasons. However, if other people want to use it and make it legal, that is certainly within their right. I just won't be joining them in that addicting cause. I don't even drink coffee so...

Marijuana reminds me too much of the smoking campaigns in the 50s and before. The advocates sound like the Cigarette lobby. I'm predicting a lot of people will be suing a similar marijuana lobby for brain damage and the like.

Have we learned from that mistake? I guess not.
 
Last edited:
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

As a libertarian, do you believe that alcohol should be legal?

i dont care one way or the other

the voters of this country apparently do care.....and threw out the laws surrounding prohibition

maybe one day, they will do the same with some drugs

i can only hope not.....

i realize my views arent the "popular" ones

and my views are skewed by personal knowledge of what drugs can do to people, and families

i dont wish that on anyone else....period
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Absolutely correct, I spent some time at a rehab for teens and young adults, visiting a family member, over the past year or so. Whoever thinks marijuana is harmless should spend some time working with kids who have been affected by addiction. Horrible outcomes.

bingo

we have a winner

pot is not a victimless drug

and selling it is not a victimless crime

any trip to a good rehab facility will show you that in just a few hours
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

bingo

we have a winner

pot is not a victimless drug

and selling it is not a victimless crime

any trip to a good rehab facility will show you that in just a few hours


That is their personal problem. Doesnt mean that pot should be illegal and everyone else suffer the consequences and $$ costs of law enforcement, prisons, and violence (because keeping it a crime creates criminals that then must defend themselves, their illegal property, etc and they kill innocent people...them and the cops do so too).

It doesnt mean that other people cannot enjoy the recreational properties of pot and that others should be punished because of the few.

And I have no interest in smoking it.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

bingo

we have a winner

pot is not a victimless drug

and selling it is not a victimless crime

any trip to a good rehab facility will show you that in just a few hours

As long as the action that is illegal doesn't violate or threaten the rights of anyone else it is a victimless crime. The act of selling pot to someone else is a consensual act and is therefore a victimless crime.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Absolutely should be legalized. There is no rational basis in my mind for the government to continue to spend the time, money, and effort on attempting to combat marijuana when compared to it's potential risks and the success rate of those efforts. This is especially true when the government is not investing similar time, money, and effort in combatting a far more dangerous intoxicant that is legally available pretty much throughout the country. The fact a more significantly dangerous intoxicant is legal suggest to me that the prohibition against marijuana is not one based on a rational necessity. As such, the infringement upon the freedoms of citizens is not justified.

Legalization, regulation and taxation.

Yep

legal in all states and treated like alcohol.

I'd say a hybrid of Alcohol and Tobacco. You have to take into account that unlike alcohol, marijuana when smoked will give off a secondary effect that has the potential to impact those around the user. So it'd be a hybrid of laws and regulations regarding both.

Legalize it, end the war on drugs use 1/10th of the savings on drug education and treatment programs (reluctantly as it's not my problem if you use drugs).

Definitely an interesting thought of potentially addressing some of the concerns with legalization while at the same time still coming up with a likely net fiscal gain.

Addiction to marijuana?

To my understanding marijuana does have the potential to be psychologically addicting, but generally not physically addicting. Even then, I believe the rates are significant less than many other such things. Additionally, the potential for addiction is not reason enough to ban something from use, so not really a great argument by others for why it should remain illegal.


Or at the very least decriminalisation of small time possession without intent to sell.

Removal of it from the narcotics list as it isn't one, and allow the individual states the right to regulate or ban.

Two interesting potential alternative options as well.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Moderator's Warning:
Folks, the topic of this thread is national legalization of marijuana, not "Are you Libertarian enough". The conversations that have been popping up all thread challenging other posters "libertarian-ness" need to stop going forward
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I'd say a hybrid of Alcohol and Tobacco. You have to take into account that unlike alcohol, marijuana when smoked will give off a secondary effect that has the potential to impact those around the user. So it'd be a hybrid of laws and regulations regarding both.

i agree.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

As long as the action that is illegal doesn't violate or threaten the rights of anyone else it is a victimless crime. The act of selling pot to someone else is a consensual act and is therefore a victimless crime.


so selling to a 12 year old? is that a violation to you? 14 year old? where is that line?

getting kids already having a hard time involved with drugs is victimless?
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

so selling to a 12 year old? is that a violation to you? 14 year old? where is that line?

getting kids already having a hard time involved with drugs is victimless?

These conversations have little to do with minors. None of the laws include them and all protect them.

People do break laws however. That's happening now, legalization actually can protect them more since it will be a controlled substance, not an illegal one.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

so selling to a 12 year old? is that a violation to you? 14 year old? where is that line?

getting kids already having a hard time involved with drugs is victimless?

No, selling a kid pot does not somehow violate their rights.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Suppose we assume that in the poll attached to this thread, no one voted for conflicting options.

Suppose we further assume that people who voted for "Medicinal only" count as "against" full legalization.

We then have:

Conservative for 80
Conservative against 37
Liberal for 90
Liberal Against 12
Independent for 79
Independent against 10

If this is accurate, I calculate that support for complete legalization is as follows:

Conservatives 68%
Liberals 88%
Independents 88%

And 5% are just angry about something?

Of course the poll is unscientific, but it seems that the majority of persons...who voted on the poll....support complete legalization.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

That is their personal problem. Doesnt mean that pot should be illegal and everyone else suffer the consequences and $$ costs of law enforcement, prisons, and violence (because keeping it a crime creates criminals that then must defend themselves, their illegal property, etc and they kill innocent people...them and the cops do so too).

It doesnt mean that other people cannot enjoy the recreational properties of pot and that others should be punished because of the few.

And I have no interest in smoking it.

As is said with many public health issues, it has an impact on all society. Not just the direct damage done to the individual, but also the economic impact of addiction, the medical expense of rehab and psychological care, and the general degradation of society at large. Think bigger.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

As is said with many public health issues, it has an impact on all society. Not just the direct damage done to the individual, but also the economic impact of addiction, the medical expense of rehab and psychological care, and the general degradation of society at large. Think bigger.

I do...to freedom. And the fact that we have all those expenses now...perhaps more because of incidents due to it remaining a crime. Nobody is going to stop smoking pot. We are just going to have fewer social and economic costs with it legal. (Less court costs, less cops involved, less people in prisons, less crime, etc.)

Think how Prohibition failed...pretty much the same thing.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

I do...to freedom. And the fact that we have all those expenses now...perhaps more because of incidents due to it remaining a crime. Nobody is going to stop smoking pot. We are just going to have fewer social and economic costs with it legal. (Less court costs, less cops involved, less people in prisons, less crime, etc.)

Think how Prohibition failed...pretty much the same thing.

Not at all the same thing as prohibition. For the record I am good with reform in the criminal aspect. I would focus more energy on an education campaign to deter and shun pot smoking much like has been done with smoking cigarettes. I would heighten the penalties for distribution and transport and simply administer citations low level possession. I think if the media would focus a bit more on the tens of thousands of Mexican deaths caused by the cartels in the transportation of pot and other illegal drugs people might count the cost of their toke with a little more trepidation.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Funny, no one has been able to name all the people who died of marijuana overdose...hmmm
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Funny, no one has been able to name all the people who died of marijuana overdose...hmmm
After a brief viewing of several search results, it appears that overdosing marijuana requires:
  1. High usage volume/overuse (far beyond normal usage levels).
  2. Other health issues ongoing in the user.

With the caveat that high usage may be closer to normal usage with improvements in source quality and the like.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Not at all the same thing as prohibition. For the record I am good with reform in the criminal aspect. I would focus more energy on an education campaign to deter and shun pot smoking much like has been done with smoking cigarettes. I would heighten the penalties for distribution and transport and simply administer citations low level possession. I think if the media would focus a bit more on the tens of thousands of Mexican deaths caused by the cartels in the transportation of pot and other illegal drugs people might count the cost of their toke with a little more trepidation.

How is it different than Prohibition?

And legalization and legal growing here would hugely reduce the crime from Mexican pot cartels. We could also tax the heck out of them if they want to import it legally.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

How is it different than Prohibition?

And legalization and legal growing here would hugely reduce the crime from Mexican pot cartels. We could also tax the heck out of them if they want to import it legally.

yea, we don't wan't to legalize as pot is a harmful substance. The last thing we need is more legal intoxicants. We really don't want to tax it, giving governments an excuse to promote consumption. We want to deter use.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

yea, we don't wan't to legalize as pot is a harmful substance. The last thing we need is more legal intoxicants. We really don't want to tax it, giving governments an excuse to promote consumption. We want to deter use.

There is no Constitutional reason to prohibit it. It is much less harmful than alcohol yet the crime surrounding it is severe and costly.

We have never detered use, even when illegal. Your prejudices blind you to reality.

No one is promoting use. Not of alcohol, not of cigarettes, not of pot. Legalization does not equal 'good.' It equals less crime and more personal liberty.

(And I have no interest in smoking pot)
 
Back
Top Bottom