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National Legalization of Marijuana [W:237]

Legal Weed: For or Against

  • Total voters
    75
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Cephus said:
And they should be held accountable for it. There are restrictions in the medical field.
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Meh, I don't care for drug prescription laws. The more doctors that ignore them the better in my book. People should be able to buy whatever drugs they want from any willing seller.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Cephus said:
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has to inject or ingest, snort or smoke anything to make them feel better about themselves has some serious psychological issues. The point is not to medicate the pathetic, it's to actually push them to grow and get the hell over it.
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Ok, that's fine, but I disagree and so does at least half the country who drink on occasion, plus the share that uses other recreational drugs. You've got a set of values which work for you, but I don't agree that you have a right to impose your values on the rest of us.

The same goes for religion, people use it as a drug so they don't have to deal with reality on it's own terms, but reality never goes away, no matter how far down the rabbit hole you fall. Drugs don't solve problems, they just ignore them for a while and when you come down, the problems are still there. Weakness of character isn't an excuse, it's a call to action to actually address the weakness and grow a pair. Unfortunately, our increasingly liberal society has stopped caring about holding people responsible for their own lives and issues, now people just want a pill or a patch to make the pain go away with the minimal amount of actual effort required. Sticking a needle in your arm or snorting some powder up your nose should not be seen as an acceptable crutch to help people deal with their issues.
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Again, that's a nice speech for your soapbox, or for your own children, but it's just your opinion. You've managed to take maybe 150 million drug users (roughly 60% of the adult population) and put them in convenient boxes, then condemn them all as somehow inferior to yourself. Maybe they have different priorities, or different ways to enjoy this life, and it's not your job or my job to make their decisions for them.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Cephus said:
Libertarians are, by and large, idiots, sorry.
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I'm not a libertarian, but my idea of living in a free country isn't one where you or a bare majority of your fellow abolitionists make life choices for the rest of us. You don't seem to be a fan of religion, but your views on drugs is of the same character as a theocracy imposing religious beliefs on the citizenry - two sides of the same authoritarian coin.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Henrin said:
Meh, I don't care for drug prescription laws. The more doctors that ignore them the better in my book. People should be able to buy whatever drugs they want from any willing seller.
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I almost agree with you, Henrin...believe it or not. Where I might disagree "any willing sellers". I don't oppose all drugs known to humankind being legal. But counterfeit drugs would pop out everywhere if there is no control over quality.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Cephus said:
I already said that medicinal marijuana is fine, so long as it has a prescription and comes from a legal pharmacy. I don't buy for a second that people should be able to grow their own, any more than I think people should be able to cook up their own prescription drugs. So long as it is controlled and monitored, I'm fine with it, only because we know that it works better than any other medicine we currently have. Anyone who wants to be licensed to dispense legally grown medical marijuana, I'm cool with that. Those that do not... that's their problem.
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Thanks for the clarification. I must have missed that.

You death penalty\medical use policy would ramp up the violence (particularly for illegal growers) and the profit margins of the drugs. What is now nudge nudge wink wink would become life and death. You apparently think that would be an improvement. I suppose we'd save a bit on prison space, and we'd scare a lot of people. It seems like an incredibly disproportionate response in the case of marijuana.

The Übermensch thing is a ridiculous ego-stroke. Anyone who believes they are immune to the stresses and temptations of the world is a dangerous fool. The idea that we should kill or marginalize those that fall short of your standards is monstrous.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Henrin said:
Meh, I don't care for drug prescription laws. The more doctors that ignore them the better in my book. People should be able to buy whatever drugs they want from any willing seller.
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Please refer back to my previous post about libertarians being idiots. Thank you.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Cephus said:
Please refer back to my previous post about libertarians being idiots. Thank you.
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Allowing people to buy from more sellers should lower prices and give people greater access to what they need. There is no good reason that doctors should have a government sanctioned monopoly on the delivery of many drugs.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

JasperL said:
Ok, that's fine, but I disagree and so does at least half the country who drink on occasion, plus the share that uses other recreational drugs. You've got a set of values which work for you, but I don't agree that you have a right to impose your values on the rest of us.
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While I don't drink at all, I have no problem with people who drink in moderation because science has shown that it does have positive medical effects. People who go out and get drunk, those people I have no respect for. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, I've never said anything of the sort, all of these things would need to be adopted by society and I don't see that likely, since modern liberal society has entirely forgotten what personal responsibility and good decision making are. That's one of the major reason why our nation is circling the drain.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

JasperL said:
I'm not a libertarian, but my idea of living in a free country isn't one where you or a bare majority of your fellow abolitionists make life choices for the rest of us. You don't seem to be a fan of religion, but your views on drugs is of the same character as a theocracy imposing religious beliefs on the citizenry - two sides of the same authoritarian coin.
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I didn't say you were, you brought them up, I responded. I never intended you to take any personal offense, if you did.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

WillyPete said:
Thanks for the clarification. I must have missed that.

You death penalty\medical use policy would ramp up the violence (particularly for illegal growers) and the profit margins of the drugs. What is now nudge nudge wink wink would become life and death. You apparently think that would be an improvement. I suppose we'd save a bit on prison space, and we'd scare a lot of people. It seems like an incredibly disproportionate response in the case of marijuana.

The Übermensch thing is a ridiculous ego-stroke. Anyone who believes they are immune to the stresses and temptations of the world is a dangerous fool. The idea that we should kill or marginalize those that fall short of your standards is monstrous.
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Actually, I don't think it would ramp up violence, I think that the street dealers would take one look at the penalty and the chances of getting caught and stop dealing. You might get people up the chain who are willing to keep it up because of the profit, but once you catch them and they're all dead, how many people are you going to find that take a chance? Personally, I don't care, kill 'em all until someone rents a clue. We need to send a clear and loud message that we will not tolerate illegally dealing drugs by anyone, to anyone, for any reason. This sends that message, if our society had the balls to do it, which, unfortunately, we do not.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Removable Mind said:
I almost agree with you, Henrin...believe it or not. Where I might disagree "any willing sellers". I don't oppose all drugs known to humankind being legal. But counterfeit drugs would pop out everywhere if there is no control over quality.
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Yeah, I agree that is a concern. Still, I think the current system raises the cost of medicine in this country and makes people at the will of doctors to get what they need. I can not in good conscious agree with that.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Cephus said:
While I don't drink at all, I have no problem with people who drink in moderation because science has shown that it does have positive medical effects. People who go out and get drunk, those people I have no respect for. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, I've never said anything of the sort, all of these things would need to be adopted by society and I don't see that likely, since modern liberal society has entirely forgotten what personal responsibility and good decision making are. That's one of the major reason why our nation is circling the drain.
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OK, but you said death penalty for dealers, so if you were king for a day, you'd impose a very authoritarian stance on drug use you don't approve of.

And those are VERY gray lines you're taking a hard line stance around. Where does one draw the line between "moderate" drinking and getting drunk? It will vary based on how much you've eaten, whether you're hydrated, etc. And I find it really odd that you can respect people who get a little bit high, but have no respect for people who get just a bit more high. They're all getting high - it's why they drink.

And the problem with legalized alcohol is the same as any other drug. There is a fairly significant share of the population who will predictably abuse alcohol - they're the 88,000 who die annually from alcohol use.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Cephus said:
I didn't say you were, you brought them up, I responded. I never intended you to take any personal offense, if you did.
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I didn't take any personal offense - I was just pointing out that your views are authoritarian on this issue. You've decided to place drugs in these IMO arbitrary boxes, with those in one box getting the death penalty and others engaged in similar acts allowed to run for POTUS. Users of some drugs are "pathetic" but users of other drugs can be respectable members of society.

From where I sit, people should do what works for them. For both of us, abstaining works - for others, getting high on occasion works. That's fine with me - more power to them, it's their life.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

JasperL said:
The point is that observation doesn't tell us whether the War on Drugs lessens the harm.

It harms some young people, but everyone I knew in college including me smoked pot at least once, several on a more or less regular basis, and not one were harmed by pot.

But I can make a long list of those I know who have DIED because of alcohol. So this is clearly true: "Alcohol harms people. Young people." And yet it's legal, because prohibition caused more problems than it solved.



But you're OK with drug dealers and gangsters who sell the drug alcohol? One of them was the GOP nominee for POTUS, and per CDC, alcohol kills 88,000 per year. Shouldn't we also jail the gangster McCain who sells poison to kids?

There were about 40,000 deaths from drug overdoses. Most of those (at least 55%) were manufactured by pharmaceutical companies. Shouldn't we shut down their drug labs and jail the kingpins making that poison?

Etc.
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Yes I'm ok with ppl who sell alcohol because it's legal. Marijuana dealers, on the other hand, are breaking the law. Again, two wrongs don't make a right. Meaning that just because alcohol is harmful that isnt an argument to legalize weed.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Risky Thicket said:
It will be a presidential campaign issue in 2016. Where do you stand on the issue?
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Agree it should be legal...just like it is in Colorado.

Disagree that it'll be a campaign issue, though.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Peter Grimm said:
Yes I'm ok with ppl who sell alcohol because it's legal. Marijuana dealers, on the other hand, are breaking the law. Again, two wrongs don't make a right. Meaning that just because alcohol is harmful that isnt an argument to legalize weed.
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But the debate is over whether marijuana should be legalized, what the law should be. We all know what the law IS, and it's irrelevant for this debate. If you support different standards for the drugs alcohol and pot based only on their current legality, it's an argument for hypocrisy as optimal policy.

And my argument to legalize pot isn't that alcohol is also harmful. That was just to push back on those who are vehemently against "drugs" except alcohol. That position isn't against drugs, just opposition to some drugs used by some people who are not my friends, family and colleagues.

But the arguments for legal pot stand on their own merits. The War on Drugs has failed, pot is widely used, available to any HS kid in the country with a phone call, cheap, more potent than ever, and the money we spend fighting this war is nearly entirely wasted, destroys many lives, for no good purpose. If someone can point out a benefit of this War on Drugs, or the War on Pot, feel free....
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Drug laws should be left up to the states. Abolish the DEA, now.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

JasperL said:
But the debate is over whether marijuana should be legalized, what the law should be. We all know what the law IS, and it's irrelevant for this debate. If you support different standards for the drugs alcohol and pot based only on their current legality, it's an argument for hypocrisy as optimal policy.

And my argument to legalize pot isn't that alcohol is also harmful. That was just to push back on those who are vehemently against "drugs" except alcohol. That position isn't against drugs, just opposition to some drugs used by some people who are not my friends, family and colleagues.

But the arguments for legal pot stand on their own merits. The War on Drugs has failed, pot is widely used, available to any HS kid in the country with a phone call, cheap, more potent than ever, and the money we spend fighting this war is nearly entirely wasted, destroys many lives, for no good purpose. If someone can point out a benefit of this War on Drugs, or the War on Pot, feel free....
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Alright, and I don't think pot should be legal because it ruins lives and it is appealing to young people. In spite of what you might think, legalizing it will only make usage go up.... look at Colorado, for example. Now, it's hard to find someone living in that state who doesn't smoke marijuana. In neighboring Utah, Kansas, or Wyoming, pot use is much lower.

I don't think we should give up on the war on drugs just because we've hit some bumps in the road. Anyone who compares it to the prohibition era is overstating the problem. Drug use in this country is not nearly as rampant or widespread as alcohol use was during that time, and that's because we send a clear message about its effects on health.

At the end of the day, to me, it's about kids. If the only people smoking weed were old hippies from the Tommy Chong era, I wouldn't have any problem with that. To those people, I say toke up man, you earned it. But I'm not for anything that encourages, or imparts an air of permissiveness toward weed smoking among people under the age of 30.

At that age, the brain is still developing, and drug use can be extremely harmful.

I think I could get behind legalizing marijuana for medicinal purposes, although I'm on the fence there. For recreational purposes to anyone over 18.... hell no.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Peter Grimm said:
1.)But long term marijuana use is linked with lower dopamine levels, which causes a general lack of motivation.

2.) I'm not saying that a lot of people who use the drug don't already lack motivation to begin with, but the drug does amplify that by changing the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain.
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1.) so :shrug: that doesnt change anything
it was still there choice to use it, stay on it, abuse it and not stop it. That has nothing to do with weed. studies have shown video games, internet and many technologies have done the same.

2.) again thats a problem with the people, not the drug
as few as i know that fit your descriptions i know probably 10x more that dont . . . so what is the reasoning behind that? its the people, not the drug . . .
weed had nothing to do with thier shortcomings
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

AliHajiSheik said:
For those who say legalize it and tax it. Would you be willing to say legalize it and NOT tax it?
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I wouldnt for the simple reason it will need regulated both FDA wise and law wise and that will take on additional money that should be provided by the industry . . but thats just my two cents . . .
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

Grand Mal said:
How's your consistency? Should alcohol be illegal again?
It's a common worry that legalization of drugs would lead to massive increase in abuse and addiction but addiction is a bigger problem now than it was before prohibition. In Portugal, they decriminalized drugs about 14 years ago and the addiction rate dropped.

Ten Years After Decriminalization, Drug Abuse Down by Half in Portugal - Forbes
"Ten years ago, Portugal decriminalized all drugs. One decade after this unprecedented experiment, drug abuse is down by half:"



Drug addicts commit crimes because the drug they're addicted to is very expensive. I say, give addicts their drug, or sell it to them very cheap. The drug problem isn't that some losers are wasting their lives, the problem is they're stealing from you and me to do it. Prohibition hasn't worked at all- I doubt even one person is deterred from trying drugs because of the laws against it. Let's try a different solution.
And let's make very sure we're not trying to legislate morality.
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We tried making alcohol illegal once, it didn't work out very well. No way I would want to go down that road again. Besides, I like to tip one back every now and then just like most folks.

With weed, it's illegal now, and I'm quite happy with the status quo. I don't think society benefits from having a million more stoners laying around in front of their playstations, and I believe that legalization would lead to more people abusing the drug.

I take a practical approach to the issue.
 
Re: National Legalization of Marijuana

TurtleDude said:
1) prohibition

2) the war on drugs
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You would really have to stretch to draw parallels between prohibition and the current war on drugs. Alcohol use is much, much more widespread, accepted, and the demand for alcohol is much higher than marijuana or any other drug.

Prohibition failed because, ultimately, the general public wanted to drink. Thankfully, the general public doesn't want to get stoned..... that's pretty much left up to old hippies and teenagers.
 
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