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Is this cartoon racist?

Is this cartoon racist?

  • Total voters
    69
Zyphlin said:
You've demonstrated no such thing.

You've demonstrated that at some point in time people have used the word "chocolate" to refer to black people.

You've demonstrated that at some point in time people have used the word "****" in reference to black people.

What you haven't demonstrated, what so ever, is how this cartoon in any way, shape, or form gives ANY contextual evidence that it's usage of "chocolate" or reference to "****" is in any way related to those instances.
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Wrong. I did indeed demonstrate that it is related. The cartoon creator has intentionally chosen chocolate and has made a direct connection between chocolate and feces. Obama is colored brown like chocolate, the papers representing his policies have been colored brown like chocolate. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that the cartoonist intentionally meant to associate both Obama and his policies with feces. And because I have indeed demonstrated that feces has been used to refer to blacks because of their skin color, the racist association was indeed demonstrated.

Zyphlin said:
There's no indication what so ever in the cartoon suggesting that those particular policies are "black" policies. There's no indication what so ever in the cartoon that those polices are made of the same thing as Barack Obama or that they are a part of him (indeed, even the color used to shade the various items in the room is a distinctly different hue than the President).
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Wrong. Although the hue is different, it is barely differenct and therefore the association of the policy, feces, and Obama can be made.

Zyphlin said:
There's absolutely no indication what so ever in the cartoon suggesting that Obama's race plays ANY role what so ever.

Nothing. You've not "demonstrated" anything as relating to that. You've demonstrated that other people have used those words in racist ways before, but that is not the same as demonstrating any evidence that they're being used in that fashion in this cartoon.

You're making ASSUMPTIONS. You are GUESSING. And you are guessing in a completely baseless fashion, as you've not been able to point to or articulate a single thing within the cartoon that gives ANY indication what so ever that race has anything to do with it. Nothing.
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Because reality is so complicated the mind is constantly making certain assumptions. Over and above that, if we had to rely strictly on direct evidence we would be extremely limited in our activities and knowledge of the world. As an example, you have no direct evidence that I am black. You have not seen me in person, neither do you have any pictures of me, and neither do you know anyone that knows me. All you can do is make certain assumptions and try to come to a reasonable conclusion that I am black. As such, to say that I have made assumptions is meaningless because any knowledge that is obtained through the human mind is based on assumptions. Of course I have assumed that because the cartoon creator has made an association between chocolate, feces and Obama that he has a racist intent. However that claim is not baseless as you have claimed. It is based on the facts that there is common reference to blacks with feces and chocolate. And because the cartoon creator has used both in the cartoon, along with color to make the association, my claim does indeed have merit. Therefore your assertion that the claim is baseless is bogus.

Furthermore even you have conceded that a person could conclude that they MIGHT be racist. If that is the case, then one should not DEFINITELY conclude that they are not racist either.

The thing is this, the human mind makes assumptions based on past experience. As a black male that grew up in a very racist area of the U.S., and area that to this day is a KKK stronghold, my experience led me to conclude that the cartoon is racist. Your background may lead you to conclude otherwise. However, you and others here are wrong to strongly assert that my perception is baseless when I have not said the same about your position. I would put forward that such narrow mindedness and lack of respect are why we continue to have problems with race in this country.
 
I'm late to the party, as usual. No, the cartoon itself isn't racist... but despite my personal displeasure with Obama's presidential performance, I found myself, well, uncomfortable and offended by it. :shrug:

Can't say why. It wasn't a rational reaction; more of a visceral one.
 
Considering everything in life is racial for better or worse and that reality can't be done away with, yes. Do I care? No. Race is a reality.
 
Seems pathetic to spend so much effort to vote anonymously a 1000 times. Someone has way to much time on their hands.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I sense some veiled racism there... who ever heard of a person with a chocolate touch? The golden touch? Yes. The Chocolate touch? No, and then to have it be from a black man?
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No one's really used the term "chocolate touch" before.

That's the point.

The comic isn't actually depicting Obama having the "chocolate touch", it depicts that everything he touches turns to ****. A slang notion that is hardly unheard of and hardly restricted or even associated with black people.

For example, from the Soprano's:

Anthony 'Tony' Soprano Sr.: I'm like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to ****.
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Or the UK show "Skins", with image and quote highlighted here

BYaq8jCCEAAaLLp.jpg


Since other's have been using "urban dictionary" as some kind of source, look here:

Everything i touch turns to ****!:

A feeling of things not going your way. When you screw things up.
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The suggestion isn't that he has the "Chocolate touch", it's that essentially he has the reverse midus touch as Tony Soprano's calls it...everything he touches turn to ****.

And what has a substantial history in comedy for being either mistaken for ****, or for **** being mistaken for?

Chocolate.







Another video (Because I can only insert 3)

And one more link since I'm at max videos

Which is the clear point of the cartoon. Obama is trying to put a positive spin on what he's done by suggesting it's a GOOD thing (thinking it's "chocolate") when in reality it's a bad thing ("****"). Not just that he's trying to put a good spin on it, but rather that he's completely oblivious to the fact that it's NOT a good thing but rather a bad one.

There absolutely is a long standing notion of "Everything [x person] touches turns to ****", there's absolutely a long standing notion of people mistaking chocolate for **** and vise versa in comedy, and there's absolutely context within the actual cartoon to suggest that the above is exactly what is going on. The obama character directly acknowledges he's turning things into something else by "touching" them, he's clearly mistaking it for chocolate while the others view it correctly as **** (I guess theoretically you could suggest they're the wrong ones in the cartoon and he's the one that's correct. In either case, it's clear there's confusion over what it is because chocolate/poo is easily "confused" in comedy).
 
calamity said:
Chocolate, though not a common racist term, is often associated with black people.

Urban Dictionary: chocolate face
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Sorry, but that like saying that anything brown gets associated with black people. It's a connection that REQUIRES racism to make. When I see chocolate, I don't think of black people, the same goes for anything brown...
 
DiAnna said:
I'm late to the party, as usual. No, the cartoon itself isn't racist... but despite my personal displeasure with Obama's presidential performance, I found myself, well, uncomfortable and offended by it. :shrug:

Can't say why. It wasn't a rational reaction; more of a visceral one.
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It could be of the subtle associations of Obama, chocolate a feces.
 
cpwill said:
He's claiming that there is some old joke about "If black is beautiful then my poop is a masterpiece", I've never heard that joke, but his claim is that therefore any implicit reference to poop being brown is racist.
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tres borrachos said:
So the purpose of his poll, and all of his whiny posts throughout the rest of the thread, are because he takes offense to a joke (never heard that one, BTW) and he has decided that this cartoon is somehow a play on or related to that joke?
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LaylaWindu said:
So basically the racism part is pure invention . . . . .

I'm mean unless the creator comes out and specifically says "yes I made it to make fun of black people and their skin color because they are all just pieces of ****" there's zero racism in the cartoon alone.

Any claim of racism is an assumption and not based on the cartoon itself.
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cpwill said:
Well he didn't lay it out at first so I'm not sure if he actually came to that conclusion when he first saw it, or if he saw the cartoon, assumed it was racist, posted it, and then had to go find a justification.
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cpwill said:
Yeah, but when you point that out to him, he tells you that it's "just your opinion" and to stop "pontificating" :lol:

Welcome to the forum, btw. :)
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LaylaWindu said:
He can make any claim he wants but people, typically, need some type of evidence to buy into something. So it seems he is out of luck :)

Thanks!
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Reminds me of this:

At about 5:00 p.m. on Sunday, January 18, Ms. Currie went to meet with President Clinton at the White House. She told the grand jury:

He said that he had had his deposition yesterday, and they had asked several questions about Monica Lewinsky. And I was a little shocked by that or -- (shrugging). And he said -- I don't know if he said -- I think he may have said, "There are several things you may want to know," or "There are things -- " He asked me some questions.

According to Ms. Currie, the President then said to her in succession:

"You were always there when she was there, right? We were never really alone."

"You could see and hear everything."

"Monica came on to me, and I never touched her, right?"

"She wanted to have sex with me, and I can't do that."

Ms. Currie indicated that these remarks were "more like statements than questions."
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faithful_servant said:
Sorry, but that like saying that anything brown gets associated with black people. It's a connection that REQUIRES racism to make. When I see chocolate, I don't think of black people, the same goes for anything brown...
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That's why I voted "no", not racist. But, seeing it as racist is not that much of a stretch. Depicting a black person with a "chocolate touch" is right on the line, IMO. It definitely implies race, that's almost indisputable. But I don't think it's racist.
 
What occurred to me while reading through this thread, and so many others like it, is this. People have a very thin skin and think of themselves as too important.
"He called me babe, he harassed me"
"She thinks being gay is a sin, she must hate me"
"He painted Muhammad with a gun, he must be killed"
"He referenced chocolate, he must be racist"
"He, she, they...don't think like I do, they must be scum"
Good grief, get a grip and try to find some commonality instead of faults, give others the benefit of the doubt. And yes, I included Muhammad cartoons on purpose. Why? Think about it. We bicker about stuff that is really not important and forget to look at the bigger picture.
 
calamity said:
That's why I voted "no", not racist. But, seeing it as racist is not that much of a stretch. Depicting a black person with a "chocolate touch" is right on the line, IMO. It definitely implies race, that's almost indisputable. But I don't think it's racist.
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I agree and think that maybe if the cartoonist himself had some kind of history it might be even more of a stretch but I really don't know much about the guy so I can't say for sure it was or was not but I don't think it is.
 
MildSteel said:
Reminds me of this:
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Why on Earth did you quote me and say my post reminded you of Bill Clinton's statements regarding his sexual liaison with Monica Lewinsky? Never mind, rhetorical question.

Have some chocolate. Sugars cheer you up, if you can stomach the racism of a Hershey Bar.
 
tres borrachos said:
Why on Earth did you quote me and say my post reminded you of Bill Clinton's statements regarding his sexual liaison with Monica Lewinsky? Never mind, rhetorical question.

Have some chocolate. Sugars cheer you up, if you can stomach the racism of a Hershey Bar.
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I love good chocolate like Godiva.

You question was more like a statement the way Bill Clinton was leading Bettie Currie with questions.
 
calamity said:
That's why I voted "no", not racist. But, seeing it as racist is not that much of a stretch. Depicting a black person with a "chocolate touch" is right on the line, IMO. It definitely implies race, that's almost indisputable. But I don't think it's racist.
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It doesn't even imply race. It implies something looks like chocolate, but is really ****. No, that's not correct, it doesn't imply it, it clearly states it. You have to associate chocolate with being black in order for there to be a racist implication and that comes from YOU, not the artist.
 
MildSteel said:
I love good chocolate like Godiva.

You question was more like a statement the way Bill Clinton was leading Bettie Currie with questions.
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I don't care much for the texture of Godiva but the taste is really good. The best chocolate I've ever had that wasn't made fresh in front of me is Teuscher, which is Swiss. You can buy it here in the states. I highly recommend it. Heaven!
 
Bodhisattva said:
I sense some veiled racism there... who ever heard of a person with a chocolate touch? The golden touch? Yes. The Chocolate touch? No, and then to have it be from a black man?
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That is a valid point however, the past mayor of New Orleans referred to his city as the Chocolate City and he was black. Was he being racist?

The Chocolate City speech is the nickname that some people have given to the Martin Luther King, Jr. Day speech by Ray Nagin, Mayor of New Orleans, Louisiana, on January 16, 2006. The speech concerned race politics in New Orleans several months after Hurricane Katrina destroyed much of the city. The reference is to the occurrence of the phrase chocolate city in Nagin's speech, which was one of several points in the speech which occasioned significant controversy.
chocolate city speech - Bing
 
tres borrachos said:
I don't care much for the texture of Godiva but the taste is really good. The best chocolate I've ever had that wasn't made fresh in front of me is Teuscher, which is Swiss. You can buy it here in the states. I highly recommend it. Heaven!
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Thanks. I will try to remember to find some today.

My favorite is also a Swiss brand called Rapunzel. Also, I had some Israeli chocolate that was good. I don't remember the name but it came in a red package with a cow on it.
 
Captain America said:
That is a valid point however, the past mayor of New Orleans referred to his city as the Chocolate City and he was black. Was he being racist?
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The chocolate reference usually isn't racist in my experience, although sometimes. The feces reference always is. In Nagin's case, it certainly wasn't racist.

Speaking of Nagin, that's a good example of someone shooting themselves in the foot.
 
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