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Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?


  • Total voters
    98
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Maybe they were run by lefties. Unless, of course, you figure lefties aren't capable of running a business, (a very unflattering assumption) you'd have to assume that it's quite possible.

But which political lean is the least moral wasn't really the point, was it? That was just an interesting revelation as a reulst of this discussion. The point here is...... Do YOU feel that it is immoral to decide to renege and welsh on your debts and contracts if it suits you? "Well, THEY did it, too." isn't an answer or a justification.
I mentioned corps- you can only pay back what you can. The corps are not shy about collecting on assets when needed. Knife cuts both ways.
Reason we have various laws for that.
I mentioned the workers and pensioners often get the short end of the stick when a corp goes belly up.
On an old browser at work. Very slow.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

I mentioned corps- you can only pay back what you can. The corps are not shy about collecting on assets when needed. Knife cuts both ways.
Reason we have various laws for that.
I mentioned the workers and pensioners often get the short end of the stick when a corp goes belly up.
On an old browser at work. Very slow.

The fact that "corps" aggressively go after collections has no bearing at all on this discussion. We have "various laws for that" because there must be a means to try to force people to do what they don't have the character to do willingly: Make good on their promisory notes. When they don't make good on those notes and refuse to abide by their own agreements, the law allows them various means to try to collect what is owed. That doesn't mitigate the immorality of welshing on loans.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

The fact that "corps" aggressively go after collections has no bearing at all on this discussion. We have "various laws for that" because there must be a means to try to force people to do what they don't have the character to do willingly: Make good on their promisory notes. When they don't make good on those notes and refuse to abide by their own agreements, the law allows them various means to try to collect what is owed. That doesn't mitigate the immorality of welshing on loans.

You cannot get blood for a stone.
Citizens using the same laws as corps makes them immoral?
Perhaps revise the laws.
Clarify morals- and where you are deriving these morals from please
 
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Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

You cannot get blood for a stone.
Citizens using the same laws as corps makes them immoral?
Perhaps revise the laws.

What part of "willingly" don't you understand? I know you can't get blood from a stone and people who absolutely can't pay get a pass even if it was due to bad judgement on their part. But this isn't about whether or not you can pay. It's about whether you feel that it is a moral obligation for you to repay money you borrow. It's about whether YOU think that YOU have a moral obligation to do what you contractually agreed to do. (whether you are actually capable of doing it is a different matter completely). It sounds like you are arguing that it's OK to default on debts if it profits you to do that.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

What part of "willingly" don't you understand? I know you can't get blood from a stone and people who absolutely can't pay get a pass even if it was due to bad judgement on their part. But this isn't about whether or not you can pay. It's about whether you feel that it is a moral obligation for you to repay money you borrow. It's about whether YOU think that YOU have a moral obligation to do what you contractually agreed to do. (whether you are actually capable of doing it is a different matter completely). It sounds like you are arguing that it's OK to default on debts if it profits you to do that.

No. I pay my debts. I have an obligation to pay them, but as mentioned circumstances can change.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

No. I pay my debts. I have an obligation to pay them, but as mentioned circumstances can change.

The circumstances can change and people can find themselves unable to fulfill their obligations. That, however, has no bearing on whether or not people feel that it is a moral obligation to discharge debts they incurred willingly. And about half the respondents don't feel any moral pressure to make good on their debts. It's a matter of character.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

The circumstances can change and people can find themselves unable to fulfill their obligations. That, however, has no bearing on whether or not people feel that it is a moral obligation to discharge debts they incurred willingly. And about half the respondents don't feel any moral pressure to make good on their debts.

Not the way I was raised, not the way I am.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Not the way I was raised, not the way I am.

Then you would have to vote that you do feel it is a moral obligation (even if you ended up being incapable of discharging that obligation). It is one thing to bite off more than you can chew. It is another to shrug your shoulders and walk away from an obligation that you COULD discharge but won't simply because it suits you better.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Then you would have to vote that you do feel it is a moral obligation (even if you ended up being incapable of discharging that obligation). It is one thing to bite off more than you can chew. It is another to shrug your shoulders and walk away from an obligation that you COULD discharge but won't simply because it suits you better.

Generally I avoid public polls.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Generally I avoid public polls.

Judging by the numbers, most liberals try to avoid public polls, too. Or at least THIS public poll.

Did you find it surprising that so few respondents that said "no, they don't feel morally obligated to repay debts" voted while logged in as registered members? I was a bit surprised but in retrospect, I guess I shouldn't be. I think most people know that it's a moral obligation to do that and it's not surprising that people would be embarrassed to be on record publicly as one who has no such moral compunction.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Moderator's Warning:
The personal comments need to stop now. Stick to the topic which is not other posters or accusations of violations.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Good morning, radcen. :2wave:

In some cases, such as when the ability to repay a loan becomes impossible because of job loss or illness, or because a "teaser" interest rate was used and the real rate kicks in at a later date, I can understand walking away when you know you aren't going to be able to keep your word. You're still responsible and your credit rating will suffer even though you didn't mean for it to happen.
Hello polgara.

I have sympathy for people who lose their jobs, experience a significant illness, or some other unforeseen sucky event. No problem there. Sometimes life kicks you in the teeth and you do the best you can.

I don't have sympathy for people who sign a loan with a teaser rate then act surprised when the real rate kicks in. That is easily foreseen. IMO, and this is partly the lender's fault too (the blame is equally shared, lender and borrower), but a person should be qualified for a loan based on a worst case scenario for what payments will ultimately be. If you cannot afford the ultimate payment, you cannot afford the loan. Period. A big reason we had the housing bust and the "great recession" is because too many people knowingly took out mortgages they knew they could not ultimately afford. They were hoping to continually re-fi into another teaser rate forever. Well, any thinking and non-selfish person knows stuff like that doesn't last forever. It catches up eventually.
 
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Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa Bull said:
Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
The banks don't get all their money back from selling the house. It was YOUR choice to buy the house. Reneging on the deal later just because it doesn't suit you any more is about the same as stealing money. You take money with the condition that you pay it back and you decide not to live up to your end of the bargain because it's more profitable for you if you don't. That's basically stealing.

[emphasis added by bubba]

i hear you

NO way did the lender have the CHOICE to deny the requested loan

View attachment 67179381

So with this sarcasm, are you asserting that it's OK to default on the loan because the lender could have refused to make it? Try to explain the reasoning there because that makes it sound like anyone stupid enough to loan someone else money deserves what they get if that person refuses to repay the loan.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Indeed. It turns out that over 25% of all the mortgage defaults that fueled "The Great Recession" were "strategic defaults" where the homeowner COULD have paid and simply decided to walk away from their obligations because their "investment" wasn't worth what they thought it was going to be worth. They stuck everyone else with the cost of cleaning up the mess for their unprofitable "investment" decision and they did it willingly and by choice despite having the funds to make good.

I ended up cashing out some of my 401K to pay the difference when I had to sell the home I bought in 2004 for 192,000 (After making every single mortgage payment for 8 years) for only 160,000. It cost me a lot of money because the house had lost so much value. I suppose I could have just "walked away" since I bought the home I live in now with cash from the early IRA distribution (that cost me a bundle, too), but I'm not a thief and I agreed to the mortgage in good faith and even though it was hard, I did have the means to discharge my obligation. It cost me thousands and thousands of dollars but how can people put a price on their honesty and integrity? I don't know. I just know that somehow a lot of parents failed to teach their children about values and morals and this country and this generation will end up taking the wheel and steering the ship soon. It's not something to be optimistic about.

Right. Almost everybody got hurt with that boondoggle, even people who did everything correctly. That's what shortsightedness and selfishness gets us. Even *if* it wasn't immoral, it was most certainly irresponsible.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

There is a national interest in keeping homelessness as low as possible and home ownership rates as high as possible because neighborhoods with low ownership rates tend to suffer from a number of social ills (ex crime, substance abuse, etc)

well, now it's getting a bit convoluted, as your "national interests" are seemingly based on your morals concerning social issues.... those are morals we all tend to share, so it's not like you're weird or anything... but it seems there actually is a moral component to the issue of foreclosures.


as a side note, I wonder if we all operating on the same understanding of "morals" here.... that's probably something that should have been fleshed out earlier.. but I think it's a possibility some of us are in more of an agreement than it seems.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Exactly, national and societal interest guides my moral feelings and actions far more than some institution that only exists to make money.

Thank you for mentioning that very important point.

so , in your own way, you've assigned a moral obligation to pay those bills?... it might not be a moral obligation to the bank itself, but instead to society?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

It matters little how often you repeat this bull****, it's still bull****. The sad part is you're fully aware it's bull**** and you continue to troll it out there.

It matters little how often you call it BS - it's still fact
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Judging by the numbers, most liberals try to avoid public polls, too. Or at least THIS public poll.

Did you find it surprising that so few respondents that said "no, they don't feel morally obligated to repay debts" voted while logged in as registered members? I was a bit surprised but in retrospect, I guess I shouldn't be. I think most people know that it's a moral obligation to do that and it's not surprising that people would be embarrassed to be on record publicly as one who has no such moral compunction.

don't judge any polls arouind here on the numbers... some idiots is still gaming them

there are 3 people whom have voted "no".. not 56
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Yes.....no doubt!:2wave: :peace
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

don't judge any polls arouind here on the numbers... some idiots is still gaming them

there are 3 people whom have voted "no".. not 56
Which is why I didn't bother picking a poll choice. I'll just participate in the discussion instead.

If I had picked a poll choice, though, it would have been: "If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.", (with a mental asterisk for unforeseen dire circumstances).
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Hello polgara.

I have sympathy for people who lose their jobs, experience a significant illness, or some other unforeseen sucky event. No problem there. Sometimes life kicks you in the teeth and you do the best you can.

I don't have sympathy for people who sign a loan with a teaser rate then act surprised when the real rate kicks in. That is easily foreseen. IMO, and this is partly the lender's fault too (the blame is equally shared, lender and borrower), but a person should be qualified for a loan based on a worst case scenario for what payments will ultimately be. If you cannot afford the ultimate payment, you cannot afford the loan. Period. A big reason we had the housing bust and the "great recession" is because too many people knowingly took out mortgages they knew they could not afford. They were hoping to continually re-fi into another teaser rate forever. Well, any thinking and non-selfish person knows stuff like that doesn't last forever. It catches up eventually.

I don't find that excusable, either. But 25% of all defaults were worse than that.... 25% of them COULD have repaid. Anyone that feels they don't have a moral obligation to pay off a loan they got from a business because... well.... it's a business, have no high ground to demonize businesses for doing immoral things for profit. There's a very clear pattern here.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

well, now it's getting a bit convoluted, as your "national interests" are seemingly based on your morals concerning social issues.... those are morals we all tend to share, so it's not like you're weird or anything... but it seems there actually is a moral component to the issue of foreclosures.

The desire to keep crime and other social ills low can be justified on self-interest alone without resorting to any sort of moral argument.

as a side note, I wonder if we all operating on the same understanding of "morals" here.... that's probably something that should have been fleshed out earlier.. but I think it's a possibility some of us are in more of an agreement than it seems.

Not sure what you mean

Morality - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Which is why I didn't bother picking a poll choice. I'll just participate in the discussion instead.

If I had picked a poll choice, though, it would have been: "If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.", (with a mental asterisk for unforeseen dire circumstances).

Unforeseen circumstances don't change the moral values involved. It just changes the ABILITY to do what's right, not the DESIRE to do what's right. If you feel that it's your moral obligation to pay back money you owe, then you would feel that whether you could pay it off or not. The morality does not dependent on your circumstances even if your ability to do what's right and moral may become compromised.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

don't judge any polls arouind here on the numbers... some idiots is still gaming them

there are 3 people whom have voted "no".. not 56

It would be interesting to see what the IP numbers for the rest revealed. Most of the people I've seen arguing that it's OK to renege on debts didn't vote (at least while registered).
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Unforeseen circumstances don't change the moral values involved.

Nonsense.

While ethics are conceptual and pure, morality is always determined by circumstances. Behavior that is moral is some circumstances is immoral in other circumstances.

Declaring that morals are absolute and circumstances have no effect on them is to demonstrate an ignorance about what morality is.
 
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