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Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    Votes: 91 92.9%

  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    Votes: 7 7.1%
  • Total voters
    98
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

sangha said:
But it's not "going to court" as you dishonestly claimed the lender must do



"Going through a court" is not the same thing as "going to court". The latter involves filing a lawsuit. The former does not.

The immoral desire to absolve the lender of its' obligations has created a need to support your position with lies.
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In Ohio, it must go to a court and through a court. It is a judicial proceeding. Stop squirming. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
In Ohio, it must go to a court and through a court. It is a judicial proceeding. Stop squirming. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper.
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No, foreclosure does not require a lawsuit.

Please stop lying.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

To the people who answered no, do you remember that one friend in college who was always borrowing money, or who always said he would pay you back for half the pizza you were ordering for yourself, NEVER paid you back, yet always seemed to have enough money for a new jacket or whatever? Was that guy morally obligated to pay you back?

Or were you those pizza/money borrowing people? If the latter, I want the money for all that pizza I paid for, dammit.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

CanadaJohn said:
If you want to deflect and hijack the thread for your particular agenda, it's not for me to stop you.
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CanadaJohn, this discussion started well before the thread. You are just a superficial addition to a discussion that was going on way before you got here.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Henrin said:
If you really want to talk about some of those issues you should probably understand that there are times in business where you do things because they must be done or to stay competitive. You can't really take wage rates up all that much as an individual employer in most cases, sorry. That is one reason wages don't jump up like liberals want them to.
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Well, I would imagine that holds true on a personal level, right? As a person, there are times in our lives when you do things so that you can stay afloat and thrive. One such instance, is when you a buy a house that is underwater shortly thereafter, right?

If one is immoral, the other is immoral as well.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

ttwtt78640 said:
The example is apt, as it puts the shoe on the other foot.
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No, it's not apt. At all.

1) Bankruptcy is both a legal and moral alternative in dire circumstances. On both sides of the coin. It is not afforded to only one side. That would be unfair. Bankruptcy is also extremely difficult for a city to do. Circumstances have to be extremely bad before a city is allowed to move forward with a bankruptcy. Not so much for a private individual or company.

2) Two, the pensioners in this case played a part in their own downfall. They helped negotiate a system that was clearly unsustainable to anyone with open eyes. They don't deserve all the blame, of course, but they're not wholly innocent either.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

radcen said:
Different states have different criteria and procedures.
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He's doing his red herring act, anyway, trying to find some tangential diversion to quibble about in order to distract from the main points of the discussion. It's a dishonest debate tactic, which means it is completely in character for the person using it.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Cardinal said:
To the people who answered no, do you remember that one friend in college who was always borrowing money, or who always said he would pay you back for half the pizza you were ordering for yourself, NEVER paid you back, yet always seemed to have enough money for a new jacket or whatever? Was that guy morally obligated to pay you back?

Or were you those pizza/money borrowing people? If the latter, I want the money for all that pizza I paid for, dammit.
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Excellent analogy. I suspect they would say it's your fault for being dumb enough to lend the money in the first place.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
He's doing his red herring act, anyway, trying to find some tangential diversion to quibble about in order to distract from the main points of the discussion. It's a dishonest debate tactic, which means it is completely in character for the person using it.
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Ironically, it was you who brought up the tangential diversion about going to court which is irrelevant because it's what the lender agreed to do. It was nothing more than a pitiful argument that diverts attention away from the fact that the lender agreed to the process.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
He's doing his red herring act, anyway, trying to find some tangential diversion to quibble about in order to distract from the main points of the discussion. It's a dishonest debate tactic, which means it is completely in character for the person using it.
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He does that often. I think because it seriously amuses him to be argumentative and get other people all wound up. Topic is often irrelevant. In this thread, though, I sense that he is being sincere. Repugnant, but sincere.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

sangha said:
Don't care
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This is gold. Pure gold!!! Someone who normally portrays them self as being so concerned with facts suddenly doesn't care about facts after being proven wrong.

:lamo

Seriously, rather than twist in the wind for everybody to see, it would be more dignified to back out quietly.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
Clearly, anyone who thinks you can do business on a handshake and expect people to do what's right because it's right is going to get burned. It's just not smart to trust people freely because too many have no character.
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That is no bull Papa. ;)
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

radcen said:
This is gold. Pure gold!!! Someone who normally portrays them self as being so concerned with facts suddenly doesn't care about facts after being proven wrong.
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Even you have agreed that whether or not the lender has to go to court is nothing but "tangential" to the matter and even "a red herring"

Please explain why should I be concerned about tangential red herrings?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

radcen said:
He does that often. I think because it seriously amuses him to be argumentative and get other people all wound up. Topic is often irrelevant. In this thread, though, I sense that he is being sincere. Repugnant, but sincere.
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It's so transparent that at this point, I see no point in responding to his drivel any more. But I do suspect you are right about his sincerity. It's good to know that liberals can be sincere about SOMETHING even if it's just about the degree of their sociopathy.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

radcen said:
This thread saddens me. I guess it shouldn't, as I should be used to gross rationalizations, but it does.

People are bending over backwards to disassociate themselves from the act of borrowing. By their reasoning (spin, really), if the act of borrowing is a separate act, then it is "amoral" because a non-human act doesn't have a conscience. The non-human act can do whatever it wants. That leaves their conscience free and clear.

Problem is, the issue doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with the act specifically, and everything to do with one's own promise to repay*. The promise on on YOU, and only you. They're only kidding themselves when they try to spin it away.

This mindset is not unlike the thinking behind civil asset forfeiture. The person doesn't have to be burdened with guilt/innocence. No, the property is guilty. This is the only way they... enforcers in this case... can spin it wildly enough to justify it in their own conscience.

Point 2: Prior to this thread I would not have guessed that political lean would be so definitive on an issue like this. That has been eye-opening.


*- Disclaimer: Dire circumstances requiring bankruptcy and similar not included. There are legitimate times when circumstances spin out of a person's control, but those are the exception, not the general rule.
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Good morning, radcen. :2wave:

In some cases, such as when the ability to repay a loan becomes impossible because of job loss or illness, or because a "teaser" interest rate was used and the real rate kicks in at a later date, I can understand walking away when you know you aren't going to be able to keep your word. You're still responsible and your credit rating will suffer even though you didn't mean for it to happen.

We had a case in our town where a family bought a great house with an above-ground swimming pool that was surrounded by a large enough deck that lounge chairs and tables were located there. My son-in-law knew the people that lived next door, so we were kept apprised of what was going on. Those people did not keep the house in good shape - they didn't paint the exterior when it badly needed it, and it started looking shabby. What they did do was tear the deck down and sold the wood, then emptied the pool and sold it. They apparently made sporadic house payments for a while then stopped paying altogether. They always had a new car, though, but it sat outside because they had also torn down a fairly new two car detached garage and sold it in pieces. They didn't replant the grass to improve the appearance but left big ugly holes where the pool and the garage used to be. It was an eyesore, and they eventually just walked away from the property - after gutting the interior of all the kitchen cupboards and lighting fixtures in the house that had been there when they moved in, and sold those, too. How they ever got a loan from any lending company is unknown, but the husband did have a job. They left the property a total mess when they left the area, though, which lowered the value of other houses around them. The bank has lowered the selling price by half, but no one is interested in buying it. This was a fairly high-priced neighborhood, too - not a ghetto. What do you do with ***holes like that if they move in next door to you, since it's against the law to kill them? :2mad: I wonder who they will scam next?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

CanadaJohn said:
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. As for banks lending you money to buy stocks, many banks have brokerages that will allow clients to purchase stocks on margin provided they have collateral to back up their credit worthiness. Then, when the margin comes due, they either sell the stock at a profit, the margin satisfied by the sale, or they sell the stock at a loss and pay the balance from the client's own funds.
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Buying on margin is not a 30 year mortgage. Try again
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

sangha said:
The agreement obligates the lender to accept the collateral to satisfy the loan....The contract specifies that the loan can be satisfied by either paying the lender cash on a set schedule of some sort, or through foreclosure on the collateral.
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It matters little how often you repeat this bull****, it's still bull****. The sad part is you're fully aware it's bull**** and you continue to troll it out there.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

whysoserious said:
CanadaJohn, this discussion started well before the thread. You are just a superficial addition to a discussion that was going on way before you got here.
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We're all superficial in that respect. I've been dumped on frequently enough for tangentially referring to similar or linked topics in a thread and I've no interest in playing that game again. You are, however, free to do so.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

iguanaman said:
Buying on margin is not a 30 year mortgage. Try again
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It's a loan - who said the OP was solely about mortgages? Doesn't change the fact you don't know what you're talking about.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

polgara said:
Good morning, radcen. :2wave:

In some cases, such as when the ability to repay a loan becomes impossible because of job loss or illness, or because a "teaser" interest rate was used and the real rate kicks in at a later date, I can understand walking away when you know you aren't going to be able to keep your word. You're still responsible and your credit rating will suffer even though you didn't mean for it to happen.

We had a case in our town where a family bought a great house with an above-ground swimming pool that was surrounded by a large enough deck that lounge chairs and tables were located there. My son-in-law knew the people that lived next door, so we were kept apprised of what was going on. Those people did not keep the house in good shape - they didn't paint the exterior when it badly needed it, and it started looking shabby. What they did do was tear the deck down and sold the wood, then emptied the pool and sold it. They apparently made sporadic house payments for a while then stopped paying altogether. They always had a new car, though, but it sat outside because they had also torn down a fairly new two car detached garage and sold it in pieces. They didn't replant the grass to improve the appearance but left big ugly holes where the pool and the garage used to be. It was an eyesore, and they eventually just walked away from the property - after gutting the interior of all the kitchen cupboards and lighting fixtures in the house that had been there when they moved in, and sold those, too. How they ever got a loan from any lending company is unknown, but the husband did have a job. They left the property a total mess when they left the area, though, which lowered the value of other houses around them. The bank has lowered the selling price by half, but no one is interested in buying it. This was a fairly high-priced neighborhood, too - not a ghetto. What do you do with ***holes like that if they move in next door to you, since it's against the law to kill them? :2mad: I wonder who they will scam next?
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Indeed. It turns out that over 25% of all the mortgage defaults that fueled "The Great Recession" were "strategic defaults" where the homeowner COULD have paid and simply decided to walk away from their obligations because their "investment" wasn't worth what they thought it was going to be worth. They stuck everyone else with the cost of cleaning up the mess for their unprofitable "investment" decision and they did it willingly and by choice despite having the funds to make good.

I ended up cashing out some of my 401K to pay the difference when I had to sell the home I bought in 2004 for 192,000 (After making every single mortgage payment for 8 years) for only 160,000. It cost me a lot of money because the house had lost so much value. I suppose I could have just "walked away" since I bought the home I live in now with cash from the early IRA distribution (that cost me a bundle, too), but I'm not a thief and I agreed to the mortgage in good faith and even though it was hard, I did have the means to discharge my obligation. It cost me thousands and thousands of dollars but how can people put a price on their honesty and integrity? I don't know. I just know that somehow a lot of parents failed to teach their children about values and morals and this country and this generation will end up taking the wheel and steering the ship soon. It's not something to be optimistic about.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
LOL. That's what I figure most lefties would say. "screw 'em, let them keep the house (or car or TV or furniture) since it isn't worth what I paid for it".
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Corps go belly up-
Often restructuring keeps the company in business. So those assets in the newly restructured company were then paid for with pennies on the dollar.
Workers and pensioners are bottom of the list.
But then again, all those companies must have been run by Lefties. Right?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

JANFU said:
Corps go belly up-
Often restructuring keeps the company in business. So those assets in the newly restructured company were then paid for with pennies on the dollar.
Workers and pensioners are bottom of the list.
But then again, all those companies must have been run by Lefties. Right?
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Maybe they were run by lefties. Unless, of course, you figure lefties aren't capable of running a business, (a very unflattering assumption) you'd have to assume that it's quite possible.

But which political lean is the least moral wasn't really the point, was it? That was just an interesting revelation as a reulst of this discussion. The point here is...... Do YOU feel that it is immoral to decide to renege and welsh on your debts and contracts if it suits you? "Well, THEY did it, too." isn't an answer or a justification.
 
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