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Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    Votes: 91 92.9%

  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    Votes: 7 7.1%
  • Total voters
    98
Paxaeon said:
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The real question should be is the lender morally obligated to show forbearance, mercy and charity towards the borrower?
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Radcen is right. That is a completely different question for a completely different thread. And without explaining what you mean by "charity, mercy and forbearance", you can't even have a sensible discussion. One could argue that lenders who have a grace period for late payments shows mercy, forbearance and charity. But, like I said, that isn't a better question. It's just another question; one that actually has no bearing at all on this one.
 
Papa bull said:
Radcen is right. That is a completely different question for a completely different thread. And without explaining what you mean by "charity, mercy and forbearance", you can't even have a sensible discussion. One could argue that lenders who have a grace period for late payments shows mercy, forbearance and charity. But, like I said, that isn't a better question. It's just another question; one that actually has no bearing at all on this one.
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so, you would leave us with the question, do we owe a moral obligation to an entity which would not act morally towards us
 
justabubba said:
so, you would leave us with the question, do we owe a moral obligation to an entity which would not act morally towards us
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Silly non sequitur. I said it is a different question. And one we haven't answered but you assume an answer. And you also assume that moral obligations must be null and void toward anyone or thing we Don't think is "moral" by our estimates. Unless, however, a bank is breaking it's agreement with you, you cannot argue that it was immoral because it loaned you money and, therefore, you can renege on your deals, refuse to repay and not be immoral because of it. So much silliness....
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

cpwill said:
It is a good question. The problem comes with the moral hazard. Loan forgiveness can quickly become an incentive to dive deeper into debt, or at least not to change ones' habits and circumstances.
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`
Does morality even have a play here? To borrow money without the "intent" of paying it back is theft and is both illegal and violates the ethics of most societies....with the possible exception of the Spartans. To borrow money in good faith but being unable to pay back for reasons beyond the borrowers control , puts the onus on the lender to make a moral or ethical judgement call.
 
justabubba said:
so, you would leave us with the question, do we owe a moral obligation to an entity which would not act morally towards us
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If your actions are dictated by the actions of others, then you are no better than they are. In fact, you don't even have the character to stand up and say, "I have no character.". Instead, you blame it on others.

Generic 'you', btw.
 
Papa bull said:
Silly non sequitur. I said it is a different question. And one we haven't answered but you assume an answer. And you also assume that moral obligations must be null and void toward anyone or thing we Don't think is "moral" by our estimates. Unless, however, a bank is breaking it's agreement with you, you cannot argue that it was immoral because it loaned you money and, therefore, you can renege on your deals, refuse to repay and not be immoral because of it. So much silliness....
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waiting for you to explain whether you feel a moral obligation towards an entity that would not act in a moral manner towards you
but then you have already shared with us that you wasted thirty grand paying over to a lender the amount you were upside down in your house
when instead you could have tendered a deed in lieu of foreclosure and cleared the debt
so, unless you advise otherwise, it seems safe to conclude you do believe in acting morally towards a lender which would not reciprocate in a moral manner
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Paxaeon said:
Does morality even have a play here? To borrow money without the "intent" of paying it back is theft and is both illegal and violates the ethics of most societies....with the possible exception of the Spartans. To borrow money in good faith but being unable to pay back for reasons beyond the borrowers control , puts the onus on the lender to make a moral or ethical judgement call.
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How do you intend to measure "intent"? Call a priest to perform a divination?

Beyond that - if a person makes poor financial decisions, are you helping them if you enable them to continue to do so? Is it ethical to give a drunk a drink because he asked for it and you want to be charitable?
 
Papa bull said:
Radcen is right. That is a completely different question for a completely different thread. And without explaining what you mean by "charity, mercy and forbearance", you can't even have a sensible discussion. One could argue that lenders who have a grace period for late payments shows mercy, forbearance and charity. But, like I said, that isn't a better question. It's just another question; one that actually has no bearing at all on this one.
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`
Legal forbearance is a contractual clause. Not all lending agreements contain that. Is it not morally just and incumbent for the lender to include that in a contract?
 
justabubba said:
waiting for you to explain whether you feel a moral obligation towards an entity that would not act in a moral manner towards you
but then you have already shared with us that you wasted thirty grand paying over to a lender the amount you were upside down in your house
when instead you could have tendered a deed in lieu of foreclosure and cleared the debt
so, unless you advise otherwise, it seems safe to conclude you do believe in acting morally towards a lender which would not reciprocate in a moral manner
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1. what radcen said.

2. if you borrow the money, you agree to pay it back. if you use a house or car for collateral, that does not alter your obligation.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

cpwill said:
How do you intend to measure "intent"? Call a priest to perform a divination? Beyond that - if a person makes poor financial decisions, are you helping them if you enable them to continue to do so? Is it ethical to give a drunk a drink because he asked for it and you want to be charitable?
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`
Exactly my point....why is morality even a point here? Yes, a borrower is legally and ethically obligated to pay back what they owe but when "morality" is thrown in, it involves subjective values and principles that cannot be defined by law. Therefore, the question tends to be nonsensical.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Morality has nothing to do with the borrowing and lending of money.
 
cpwill said:
1. what radcen said.

2. if you borrow the money, you agree to pay it back. if you use a house or car for collateral, that does not alter your obligation.
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nope
nothing moral about it
it's a business transaction
that's why documents are drawn instead of the shaking of one's hand to the other
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Paxaeon said:
Exactly my point....why is morality even a point here? Yes, a borrower is legally and ethically obligated to pay back what they owe but when "morality" is thrown in, it involves subjective values and principles that cannot be defined by law. Therefore, the question tends to be nonsensical.
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I think you are confused about the question. It's not "Does the law say that you are morally obligated to repay a loan", it's "are you morally obligated to repay a loan". The law simply says that you are legally obligated to repay a loan, with some narrow exceptions.
 
justabubba said:
nope
nothing moral about it
it's a business transaction
that's why documents are drawn instead of the shaking of one's hand to the other
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Like the poster above, you are attempting to conflate "legal obligation" with "moral obligation".
 
cpwill said:
Like the poster above, you are attempting to conflate "legal obligation" with "moral obligation".
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I think it's a mistake to attempt to break it down into legal and moral, but for the sake of conversation let's do it. Is honoring one's legal obligation moral? Or, is it not immoral to break one's legal obligation?

Disclaimer: Not counting unforeseen dire circumstances that allow legal alternatives.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

cpwill said:
I think you are confused about the question. It's not "Does the law say that you are morally obligated to repay a loan", it's "are you morally obligated to repay a loan". The law simply says that you are legally obligated to repay a loan, with some narrow exceptions.
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`
Pray tell, what does morality have to do with this? I cannot answer a question that assumes something that does not exist. The act of borrowing is the domain of the legal system, not moral system...unless you can prove otherwise.
 
cpwill said:
Like the poster above, you are attempting to conflate "legal obligation" with "moral obligation".
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no, it is you who is conflating the two
trying to make a business decision the same as a moral one
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

The sheer length of that blue bar astounds me.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Paxaeon said:
Pray tell, what does morality have to do with this? I cannot answer a question that assumes something that does not exist. The act of borrowing is the domain of the legal system, not moral system...unless you can prove otherwise.
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If you believe that morality does not exist, then obviously your answer is "no" :)
 
justabubba said:
no, it is you who is conflating the two
trying to make a business decision the same as a moral one
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On the contrary - the OP does not ask about what is the right thing to do from a business or legal perspective. It asks what the right thing to do is from a moral perspective.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Mathematica said:
The sheer length of that blue bar astounds me.
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:( welcome to America, where the act of having money to lend makes you the bad guy.
 
cpwill said:
On the contrary - the OP does not ask about what is the right thing to do from a business or legal perspective. It asks what the right thing to do is from a moral perspective.
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which is why he - and you - are found guilty of conflating a business decision with a moral one
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

cpwill said:
:( welcome to America, where the act of having money to lend makes you the bad guy.
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Banks are an evil institution, but I'd pay back my money.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Paxaeon said:
`
Pray tell, what does morality have to do with this? I cannot answer a question that assumes something that does not exist. The act of borrowing is the domain of the legal system, not moral system...unless you can prove otherwise.
Click to expand...

That is the problem. You, apparently think that if money is involved, morality doesn't apply. "Oh, well, that is business and the morality of doing what you say, fulfilling your obligations and being true to your word isn't a moral consideration of it's "just business".

That is classic sociopathy. There is no conscience bother if it is "just business" when you lie, cheat or steal". That's a big problem. This isn't about the morality of the lender. When they cut the duck, they've fulfilled their obligation. Their morality isn't the problem here. Yours is the issue and this sentiment that it is on to screw someone over in business is an immoral one.

Let me guess, though. You would argue that "business is corrupt so you don't have to be honest in business dealings".
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Mathematica said:
Banks are an evil institution, but I'd pay back my money.
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Banks aren't an evil institution any more than liberal are an evil group of people. Loaning money isn't evil. It is an agreement that profits both the bank and the individual borrowing. Otherwise, neither need enter a loan agreement.
 
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