Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?[W:131]

tres borrachos · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

Mavis said:
I voted no and wonder what authority or legal precedent does the author of the poll speculate could be used to "get rid" of temp agencies? I've had experience working for two temp agencies and I have used them as an employer. Which is why I have to take exception to some of your comments tres borrachos. All of these details vary from state to state for obvious reasons, right to work laws (or as I like to call them, right to fire) etc. But I have found the practice of using temp agencies to spot potential good employes and hire them full time quite common. It's how I got hired by a fortune 500 company back in 2003 and they still follow the practice, though they also do direct hiring and recruitment at colleges too. This is not the case in your area?

I have no idea what comments you're taking exception to, and being in a right to work state has nothing to do with my post that you quoted. These "details" don't vary from state to state. Temp employees are paid by their employer, and they also have no idea what the company pays their employer for their labor, nor do the employees of the company paying for their labor have any say in personnel matters unless they are discussing salaries of other people with a senior manager, in which case the senior manager is in violation.

pbrauer · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

tres borrachos said:
It's costing your employer a fortune to maintain temps through an agency. No cllue why they'd do that.

There are probably several reasons why they use temp agencies here is a couple:

They have a project that's needs to be done, but they have no need to hire a permanent employees where they would not only pay them a salary but also have to provide benefits.
Firing or laying off evmployees is not a simple matter. With a temp, they can simply say don't come here tomorrow and that is it.

I've worked for a temp agency, they can be very helpful between jobs.

tres borrachos · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

pbrauer said:
There are probably several reasons why they use temp agencies here is a couple:

They have a project that's needs to be done, but they have no need to hire a permanent employees where they would not only pay them a salary but also have to provide benefits.

Firing or laying off evmployees is not a simple matter. With a temp, they can simply say don't come here tomorrow and that is it.

I've worked for a temp agency, they can be very helpful between jobs.

We have certain major projects that are scoped and we bring in temporary help all the time for these projects - Agile developers, engineers, etc. After 18 months, the project is finished. The work is complete. That's why we hire temps.

Mavis · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

tres borrachos said:
I have no idea what comments you're taking exception to, and being in a right to work state has nothing to do with my post that you quoted. These "details" don't vary from state to state. Temp employees are paid by their employer, and they also have no idea what the company pays their employer for their labor, nor do the employees of the company paying for their labor have any say in personnel matters unless they are discussing salaries of other people with a senior manager, in which case the senior manager is in violation.

I guess I'm taking exception to your argument that the laws and policies that temp agencies follow are not different from state the state. You know, because they are of course. Different from state to state. For example in one state an employee who has been temping for an agency for over a set number of hours might have to be offered health insurance. Whereas the same agency does not have to offer the same to an employee for having temped the same number of hours in another state. There really are a multitude of polices and laws that affect temp agencies and that is what I was pointing to. I'm not clear on how you were confused by that, so I hope this clarification helps. The other thing I said, which I thought was pretty obvious too, was that I have found the practice of using temp agencies to spot potential good employes and hire them as permanent ones quite common. It's how I got hired by a fortune 500 company back in 2003 and they still follow the practice, though they also do direct hiring and recruitment at colleges too. This is not the case in your area?

tres borrachos · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

Mavis said:
I guess I'm taking exception to your argument that the laws and policies that temp agencies follow are not different from state the state. You know, because they are of course. Different from state to state. For example in one state an employee who has been temping for an agency for over a set number of hours might have to be offered health insurance. Whereas the same agency does not have to offer the same to an employee for having temped the same number of hours in another state. There really are a multitude of polices and laws that affect temp agencies and that is what I was pointing to. I'm not clear on how you were confused by that, so I hope this clarification helps. The other thing I said, which I thought was pretty obvious too, was that I have found the practice of using temp agencies to spot potential good employes and hire them as permanent ones quite common. It's how I got hired by a fortune 500 company back in 2003 and they still follow the practice, though they also do direct hiring and recruitment at colleges too. This is not the case in your area?

I never made any argument about laws being followed and never mentioned states.

Helix · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

Mavis said:
What I find concerning is that we are seeing far too much of the work force being forced into working for temp agencies Helix. It is a symptom of where things stand with our economy and not a good one in my opinion! I know some temp agency horror stories and then I know some great temp agency stories too. What you described is more the company you were temping for screwing you over than the temp agency! I've told many people over the years, if you are temping as a stepping stone to a permanent position someplace for more than a year and half and they are not making serious moves towards hiring you (calling you into HR, doing interviews, etc)? Then you need to move on to some other company if that is what you are using the temp agency job for.

i was getting verbal reassurances that i would be hired. i didn't have any way to demand more, because i had absolutely no leverage, and i was working a fire at will job in a fire at will state.

"great job, you're fired" is a piss poor way to run an economy. i don't want my future kids to have to work in a labor market like that. i think there are a couple key problems :

1. we're in the first stages of a post labor economy. the supply of labor is greater than the need for forty hour a week full time employment.

2. labor is largely unorganized, and it needs to be organized to counteract managers who do slimy things like what was done to me.

if we want to keep our job > money > access to resources distribution model, we're going to have to redesign the system to take reality into account. in our current system, it's pretty much pay people to work or pay them not to. i prefer to pay people to work, and if there are more workers than the private sector needs, we should expand the public sector.

jamesrage · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

stonewall50 said:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/26/the-rise-of-the-permanent-temp-economy/?_r=0

Over the last three years, the temp industry added more jobs in the United States than any other, according to the American Staffing Association, the trade group representing temp recruitment agencies, outsourcing specialists and the like/QUOTE]

Do you think we should get rid of or reduce the temp agencies? Do they seem to be part of the problem or solution?

Click to expand...

I think there should be laws in place defining what is temporary worker,ensuring that after a certain number of days temp workers are paid the same in benefits and wages as the regular workers in order to ensuring that companies are not hiring temp workers in order to get around paying the same wages and benefits and laws in place to ensure that companies are not merely using temp workers to get around certain federal or state laws.

Mavis · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

tres borrachos said:
I never made any argument about laws being followed and never mentioned states.

Never mind, clearly you won't engage what I said. For whatever reason I can't guess. So pointing out a third time that many employers do in fact hire temps from agencies as a means of interviewing potential job candidates won't get through either.

radcen · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

Fearandloathing said:
So, there is a case of abuse, and your solution is to blow up the system?

You voted for Obama didn't you?

I didn't take her comments as wanting to "blow up the system" at all.

tres borrachos said:
That has nothing to do with your employer. Those people have to take it up with their employer. And they have no idea what your employer pays their employer for their labor. And if your employer was going to hire them full time, they would know about this through their employer. Employers don't hire temps from agencies as a means of interviewing job candidates. What kind of business are you in and what is the skill set of these people? By the way, they are supposed to tell their agency that they want to leave and get a better assignment somewhere. They aren't supposed to be discussing it with the employees of the employer who has contracted for their work.

Actually, yes, they do. Not all, obviously none that you have ever dealt with, but it is common.

ChezC3 said:
A good portion of my twenties was spent in temporary employment.

My first temp job was for a manufacturer. This was an employee owned company and they used the temp agency as a sort of probationary period. Usually if you lasted 3 months they'd hire you on full time. Well, 5 months later they finally got around to hiring me on full time but, I was rather insulted by their foot dragging and after I made sure they spent the money on pre employment drug screening and physical I walked out at lunch one day never to return. Lesson? Don't take your temp employees for granted.

My second temp job was a pool and spa distributor. This was a small shop, 6 employees including the owner. The owner was a verbally abusive schmuck. He had an inventory system only he understood and his entire shop was a safety hazard. One time as I was pulling a pallet off a shelf he failed to tell me it was supporting the contents on the shelf above it and I almost had the entire 4 story rack fall on my head. This was my fault of course. After being chastised in a most uncivilized manner for another instance which was not my fault (it wasn't I swear) I got tire of the verbal abuse and told him I was going to throw him over the balcony off the second floor loft if he spoke to me like that again. I was let go by his foreman at the end of the day.

At another temp job where they worked you like a Hebrew slave, I had a full time employee speak to me in a manner unbecoming to which I proceeded to throw a box knife at that person's head. I received a phone call the next day telling me my services were no longer required.

And still, at another temp job where they worked you like a dog I spent 4 months straight working seven days a week sometimes a double shift on the weekends to get hired on full time as the pay rate offered at that time was quite considerable. Well, the Team Lead's daughter was in my cohort and she of course was a shoe in for hire and my dedication and hard work made me a candidate for full time employment. Then, before the hiring processes started for me, the daughter of the Team Lead was hired and it was made known that NOW, after she was hired on the starting pay for the rest of us going to be $4 less an hour. A bomb threat was made on the building one day, (wasn't me, I swear, I was working) and we all were sent home. I never returned. They called me for two weeks begging me to come back and I said, "Nah, that's OK".

So, idk, what yous tink?

Interesting. All these weird happenings, and it was always their fault. Uh huh.

The lesson from your first example is that you're not worthy of a job, hence why I doubt that everything was always the other person's fault.

pbrauer said:
There are probably several reasons why they use temp agencies here is a couple:

They have a project that's needs to be done, but they have no need to hire a permanent employees where they would not only pay them a salary but also have to provide benefits.

Firing or laying off evmployees is not a simple matter. With a temp, they can simply say don't come here tomorrow and that is it.

I've worked for a temp agency, they can be very helpful between jobs.

Yep.

11Bravo · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

TOJ said:
You suggest they have been promised a different arrangement multiple times. Have you heard the phrase, Fool me once, bad on you. Fool me twice, bad on me?

As I said, if they don't like the terms of their employment, they should find something else to do.

BTW, I do not believe your they are being paid 2 times less statement.

.

God. Literal people are the most annoying people. I didn't mean LITERALLY two times. I mean, a significant amount less.

Enjoy taking every statement literally for the rest of your life bro. Meanwhile, normal people pick up on the element of the story.

11Bravo · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

stonewall50 said:
Precisely. I was applying for a job not too long ago, literally the add went up and I applied. I got a reply that a temp had already filled the job. So they advertised a job with benefits and filled it with someone who won't get them. And it isn't the first time this happened to me so I went to a temp agency. The pay sucks and no benefits.

Yea it's not cool

11Bravo · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

tres borrachos said:
It isn't a false statement. And don't tell me how to act. Who are you anyway?

I'm 11bravo. It says it right there in the top left hand corner of my comment.

AlbqOwl · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

I happened to marry a man who got transferred a lot and we mutually agreed from the beginning that he would be the primary bread winner. That meant I had to start over in each new town. The temp agencies were a wonderful way to go right back to work while I learned the ropes of the new place and figured out where the permanent jobs were. I never had to work in the temp jobs for long, but some of my coworkers preferred the temp agency for the flexibility and variety it offered. And they pretty much made a career of it turning down permanent job offers that came their way.

If you don't like temp agencies, though, how about getting behind those of us who are promoting a strong, healthy, economy and lots of real job creation in the private sector. Find enough good jobs for folks to take, and it will put the temp agencies out of business.

Thrilla · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

well, it's only anecdotal .. but here's my take on it.

I know for fact there is one company near me that hires temp labor for the unskilled/semi-skilled position they have.
these are full times jobs, not temp projects.
they use temp services to provide 6 months of labor, without having to provide 6 months of benefits.... after 6 months, they become full employees.. and then have an additional 90 days of probationary status, in which some benefits are still denied (such as vacation, 401k, and profit sharing).
i'm not to keen on the idea of giving new employees reason to dislike the company.... while this stuff might be perfectly legal, i find it unethical and counterproductive to employee relations.

so yeah, I think some firms are gaming the system.
how many?.. no clue
is it widespread?.. no idea.

I refuse to work with temp agencies, personally.. I only hire direct, and haven't run into any problems doing so.
I guess if i was faced with a severe labor shortage, i might try a temp agency, but that's about it.
I find temp agencies to be an unnecessary middleman that operates under a business model I find distasteful...but i do acknowledge they do good in some cases.

Eric7216 · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

stonewall50 said:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/26/the-rise-of-the-permanent-temp-economy/?_r=0

Over the last three years, the temp industry added more jobs in the United States than any other, according to the American Staffing Association, the trade group representing temp recruitment agencies, outsourcing specialists and the like/QUOTE]

Do you think we should get rid of or reduce the temp agencies? Do they seem to be part of the problem or solution?

Click to expand...

Part of the solution. The richer that we get, the less we have to work to gain the necessities of life. It is easy to get the money needed to live and much of the work we do beyond that adds little to the quality of life. Time is the most precious commodity we all get and we all get, equally, the same 168 hours a week.

And it is great to go from job to job and take a lot of vacations. We should have more temporary job availability.

JANFU · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

Fearandloathing said:
So, there is a case of abuse, and your solution is to blow up the system?

You voted for Obama didn't you?

To be fair I would guess there is abuse industry wide. As 11 B makes the case, where he works, they are paid less, often the case, no benefits, no job protection, squat. But they serve a purpose.
In high unemployment areas, you can set the fee paid to a temp as they have a willing pool ready, called the unemployed. And often enough the fee is/can be lowered when you are keeping a Temp for an extended period.
Not word for word from the movie clips - As they say in the mafia, it ain't personal, it is strictly business.

tres borrachos · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

Mavis said:
Never mind, clearly you won't engage what I said. For whatever reason I can't guess. So pointing out a third time that many employers do in fact hire temps from agencies as a means of interviewing potential job candidates won't get through either.

Please show me where I said what you claimed I did, which was some argument against laws being followed in states. I never said any such thing. If you want a debate, don't make posts that are lies.

TOJ · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

11Bravo said:
God. Literal people are the most annoying people. I didn't mean LITERALLY two times. I mean, a significant amount less.

Enjoy taking every statement literally for the rest of your life bro. Meanwhile, normal people pick up on the element of the story.

Where I come from, those that lie are called liars.

tres borrachos · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

radcen said:
Actually, yes, they do. Not all, obviously none that you have ever dealt with, but it is common.

Some do but it isn't where most employers find talent. You have to train a new employee, and when you get one from an agency, you are paying the agency a hefty fee for you to train their employee. That is a terrible business decision. So if you're asking me to agree that there are a lot of foolish employers out there who make mistakes like that on a regular basis, then I'm sure there are. That, however, is not the purpose of most temp agencies today and it isn't the smartest investment of an employer's dollar.

radcen · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

AlbqOwl said:
I happened to marry a man who got transferred a lot and we mutually agreed from the beginning that he would be the primary bread winner. That meant I had to start over in each new town. The temp agencies were a wonderful way to go right back to work while I learned the ropes of the new place and figured out where the permanent jobs were. I never had to work in the temp jobs for long, but some of my coworkers preferred the temp agency for the flexibility and variety it offered. And they pretty much made a career of it turning down permanent job offers that came their way.

If you don't like temp agencies, though, how about getting behind those of us who are promoting a strong, healthy, economy and lots of real job creation in the private sector. Find enough good jobs for folks to take, and it will put the temp agencies out of business.

Some people love temping, but it wouldn't be for me.

Except out of necessity, of course.

11Bravo · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

TOJ said:
Where I come from, those that lie are called liars.

Yea I bet you get all mad when someone says "omg that movie was the best one ever made!" or "pickles are the worst!" or "it took forever to do that report!"

Hate to be you. Best of luck though!

AGENT J · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

i wonder if this is a region and or industry thing???

because in the pittsburgh area temp agencies pretty much dominate for tech to engineering jobs in the mechanical, software, electronic and IT industries.

This is what i do and who i hire.

and like i said iver use temp firms to get almost all my jobs and certainly my best ones and long term ones

also i mostly only use temp agencies to hire because of how super beneficial it is to me and my company.
1.) they do the recon for me and screen well because they want to hold up thier rep.
2.) the temp to hire contract is all on them and its great reassurance that if a person doesnt work out we just let them go and again they do the work
3.) they also start learning what im looking for and develop providing the best possible for my needs, they get a feel for it and save us the leg work. if its entry level they even go to fairs and schools and recruit for us.

maybe this is different in other areas/industries but in pittsburgh for tech stuff they are great
on a side note I did stop using one NEWER agency because the quality of employee they sent was never up to par :shrug:

AlbqOwl · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

radcen said:
Some people love temping, but it wouldn't be for me.

Except out of necessity, of course.

Yes, there isn't much chance for advancement with a temp agency and you don't get a lot of choice in the work you will be doing. The employer uses the temp agency when he needs experienced people who don't need a lot of training fast. Those with advanced highly specialized skills generally command more money than your average temp employee, but it is still going to be less money than you can usually get in a permanent job. Temp employees often, not always but often, cost the employer more than a regular employee because the hourly wage pays the temp agency as well as the employee.

But for the employers, a competent, ready-to-be-productive temp employee is a godsend in a pinch. And many people who have been in business for any length of time have used a temp agency for a replacement when their beloved secretary was out on maternity leave or when there is a larger than usual order to fill during a flu epidemic when half their staff is out sick. The employer trusts the temp agency to have already done reasonable background and reference checks and can put the person right to work.

And a whole bunch of us who were waiting for a door to be opened for a permanent job, have been very grateful for the income the temp agency provided during the interim.

tres borrachos · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

AlbqOwl said:
Yes, there isn't much chance for advancement with a temp agency and you don't get a lot of choice in the work you will be doing. The employer uses the temp agency when he needs experienced people who don't need a lot of training fast. Those with advanced highly specialized skills generally command more money than your average temp employee, but it is still going to be less money than you can usually get in a permanent job. Temp employees often, not always but often, cost the employer more than a regular employee because the hourly wage pays the temp agency as well as the employee.

But for the employers, a competent, ready-to-be-productive temp employee is a godsend in a pinch. And many people who have been in business for any length of time have used a temp agency for a replacement when their beloved secretary was out on maternity leave or when there is a larger than usual order to fill during a flu epidemic when half their staff is out sick. The employer trusts the temp agency to have already done reasonable background and reference checks and can put the person right to work.

And a whole bunch of us who were waiting for a door to be opened for a permanent job, have been very grateful for the income the temp agency provided during the interim.

In my case the temp employees always cost more than FTEs. We pay the agency the hourly rate plus as much as an additional 150% of the hourly rate (depending on the skill set we need). The normal fee is anywhere from 25% of the hourly rate (for lower skill set) to 150% for the higher skill set. We don't always hire FTEs for these jobs because they're development projects.

The agency's other big value comes from doing all of the vetting before we get the worker. It's a God send to not have to spend hours doing interviews, reference checks, drug testing, etc.

ChezC3 · Jan 20, 2015

Re: Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?

radcen said:
Interesting. All these weird happenings, and it was always their fault. Uh huh.

The lesson from your first example is that you're not worthy of a job, hence why I doubt that everything was always the other person's fault.

:lamo

What kinda slave talk are you speaking?

Worthy?

:lamo

Should we get rid of or reduce Temp Agencies?[W:131]

Should we reduce or get rid of temp agencies?

Yes, get rid of.

Yes, reduce.

No.

No, they are helping.

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