Does Israel have too much influence on US foreign policy?

[MildSteel]

Self explanatory. Please discuss.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

Nope, it may be the other way around though.

 

[MildSteel]

Nope, it may be the other way around though.

Why do you say that?

 

[Apocalypse]

Why do you say that?

Because he's right.

But on the broader sense it doesn't really matter because the two nations share every single geopolitical interest.

 

[MildSteel]

Because he's right.

That does not explain anything.

But on the broader sense it doesn't really matter because the two nations share every single geopolitical interest.

That is debatable.

 

[Joby]

No, not any more than our other allies we have commitments too.

I do believe that Israel has a relationship with the US it doesn't with any other country, and I hope the US can use its status as "the one real friend" to try and get Israel to make a deal. Like a good friend telling another their ****ing up their life in the way only a true friend can.

 

[MildSteel]

No, not any more than our other allies we have commitments too.

I do believe that Israel has a relationship with the US it doesn't with any other country, and I hope the US can use its status as "the one real friend" to try and get Israel to make a deal. Like a good friend telling another their ****ing up their life in the way only a true friend can.

Yes I would hope the same. But it appears that Israel does not care when it's "one real friend" says such things.

 

[Apocalypse]

That does not explain anything.

What is there to explain?
Isn't it obvious that America has influence over Israeli policies?
First of all let us be clear: the US is the biggest empire in the world and it has influence over every single nation out there the same way a large-mass object has influence on its surrounding smaller-mass objects if you're into physics.
Secondly it's quite obvious that the US is Israel's biggest ally on the planet and as such has more influence than other nations would.
Finally the US involves itself in every foreign policy Israel may have.

So yeah I figured that was pretty much established by now.

That is debatable.

Of course it is.

 

[Joby]

Yes I would hope the same. But it appears that Israel does not care when it's "one real friend" says such things.

Real question isn't whether Israel will listen to the US but whether Israel has the balls to face the future.

 

[rocket88]

Because he's right.

But on the broader sense it doesn't really matter because the two nations share every single geopolitical interest.

It sometimes does seem like Israel is more like the 51st state than an ally.

 

[MildSteel]

What is there to explain?
Isn't it obvious that America has influence over Israeli policies?
First of all let us be clear: the US is the biggest empire in the world and it has influence over every single nation out there the same way a large-mass object has influence on its surrounding smaller-mass objects if you're into physics.
Secondly it's quite obvious that the US is Israel's biggest ally on the planet and as such has more influence than other nations would.
Finally the US involves itself in every foreign policy Israel may have.

So yeah I figured that was pretty much established by now.

Couple of points.

First of all, although the US does have some influence over Israeli policy, it does not appear that the influence is substantial enough on certain issues of high substance, e.g. the Palestinian issue.

Second of all, to say that the US has influence on Israeli policy does not mean that Israel does not have too much influence on US policy.

Of course it is.

Yep. That's what we be here for!

 

[MildSteel]

Real question isn't whether Israel will listen to the US but whether Israel has the balls to face the future.

Absolutely!!! Great point!!!!

 

[Apocalypse]

Couple of points.

First of all, although the US does have some influence over Israeli policy, it does not appear that the influence is substantial enough on certain issues of high substance, e.g. the Palestinian issue.

And what is this claim based on, that a conclusion to the conflict wasn't reached by now?
Because of all the things I'd find blamable, the US not having enough influence is at the end of the list together with global warming and kangaroos.

Second of all, to say that the US has influence on Israeli policy does not mean that Israel does not have too much influence on US policy.

Israel has lobbyists that argue for it in the US like every other nation, company, or pretty much anything else these days. It's quite the popular myth that Israel (or Jews in general) are actually in control of US policies - but a mere myth it is. The reason so many people believe that, in my opinion, is because America is generally pro-Israeli and people are having a hard time accepting it.

 

[MildSteel]

And what is this claim based on, that a conclusion to the conflict wasn't reached by now?
Because of all the things I'd find blamable, the US not having enough influence is at the end of the list together with global warming and kangaroos.

It is based on that and the fact that when the US objects to Israeli policy and behavior they are met with public ridicule from the Israeli leadership and rudely rebuffed.

Israel has lobbyists that argue for it in the US like every other nation, company, or pretty much anything else these days. It's quite the popular myth that Israel (or Jews in general) are actually in control of US policies - but a mere myth it is. The reason so many people believe that, in my opinion, is because America is generally pro-Israeli and people are having a hard time accepting it.

Although they don't exercise absolute control of US policy, there is no doubt that the Israeli lobbies are some of the most powerful in Washington, and as such they exert a substantial amount of influence on US policy.

 

[Hatuey]

And what is this claim based on, that a conclusion to the conflict wasn't reached by now?
Because of all the things I'd find blamable, the US not having enough influence is at the end of the list together with global warming and kangaroos.

Israel has lobbyists that argue for it in the US like every other nation, company, or pretty much anything else these days. It's quite the popular myth that Israel (or Jews in general) are actually in control of US policies - but a mere myth it is. The reason so many people believe that, in my opinion, is because America is generally pro-Israeli and people are having a hard time accepting it.

I don't think they're in control, but it's undeniable that they exert certain influence over the nation's evangelical masses for whatever reason. In the end, I don't care whether Israel does or doesn't have influence over US policy. Foreign politics are entirely about influence and the US government is influenced by most nations with some significance on the world stage.

 

[MildSteel]

It sometimes does seem like Israel is more like the 51st state than an ally.

It's amazing you should say that. Actually, I was thinking the other day that it would be better if the US made Israel another state of the US. Then a lot of problems could be solved.

 

[MildSteel]

For one thing, Israeli influence on US foreign policy is making it very difficult for the US to have good relations with Arab countries in the Middle East.

 

[DaveFagan]

Self explanatory. Please discuss.

Even though Israel is on the US dole to the tune of at least $3billion/year, they don't act like a welfare state. Then, every Presidential Candidate makes sure they kiss Israel's ankle to not offend AIPAC. When our politicians do that, you know they have too much power and influence in our money politics that we've nicknamed "democracy." How many of our Congressmen share dual citizenship with Israel? I think that should be illegal. We seem to be helping Israel to keep Palestinians in their big concentration camp by supporting Israel in every UN dispute. Screw a bunch of Zionists and let's worry about real Jews.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Self explanatory. Please discuss.

Yes, they do and it is very apparent in how close those relations are. There is no debate that the US gives Israel billions of dollars in some form of aid every year, the US consistently blocks UN Security Council resolutions condemning Israel, the US often backs Israel's military offensives including Israel's embargo/strict control over Gaza, and Israel is a primary buyer of US made military weapons and equipment.

Why there is so much influence goes back to the 1960's when we looked at relations with Israel as a tool to deal with Soviet (at the time) influence over the region. Because of that history and eventual expansion to friend Egypt and Saudi Arabia the US self-appointed themselves as manager of the Middle East going so far as landing the job of handling the never ending (because neither side really wants to) Israel-Palestinian peace broker. Think about that when you look over recent history of how those "agreements" were really worded.

And all of it worked when it came to how much influence Israel has on US foreign policy, we even vote in terms of Israel support. And do not get me started on the religious reasons for that support.

 

[PoS]

For one thing, Israeli influence on US foreign policy is making it very difficult for the US to have good relations with Arab countries in the Middle East.

Yeah, thats the sad part. We could have been good friends with Iran and 9/11 wouldnt have happened.

 

[11Bravo]

Self explanatory. Please discuss.

No. They are a strong ally, which with any ally, they should be a part of our foreign policy. Also, because we invest a lot in our military (which we absolutely should), the Israeli's are an even better ally to contract with.

Great people!

 

[WCH]

The main reason we have the current relationship with Israel is because it's God's will.

Genesis 12:2-3 (NIV)

2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”

 

[Apocalypse]

It is based on that and the fact that when the US objects to Israeli policy and behavior they are met with public ridicule from the Israeli leadership and rudely rebuffed.

That's politics. The Obama and Netanyahu administrations aren't really getting along and that's all there is to it. Relations between nations go beyond politics, they're more about cultural similarities and shared geopolitical interests. American influence on Israel can be seen more in how Israel buys only American armaments, how Israel asks for green light from Washington before every attack in a foreign country such as the attack on the Syrian nuclear site several years ago or the convoy in Sudan, how Israel votes in favor of the US in the UN councils (the only nation in the world to support the US over the Cuban embargo), etc.

Although they don't exercise absolute control of US policy, there is no doubt that the Israeli lobbies are some of the most powerful in Washington, and as such they exert a substantial amount of influence on US policy.

But then again these lobbyists are American, most of them aren't even Jewish, and the reason they push for more pro-Israeli decisions is no different than the reason other American lobbyists would push for gun control policies for example, because that is their interest and that is what they're pushing for. People have their interests.

 

[DDD]

Yes,

It is too much if Israel asks USA to cover its crimes against humanity in the recent Gaza conflict.

 

[joG]

Self explanatory. Please discuss.

Israel makes life more difficult in many respects. That much is true. It is, however, a relatively reliable ally in a rather shady part of town that is very good at a number of tasks.
We should probably lean on them more.