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Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

  • Total voters
    75
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

joG said:
I have heard of persons being coerced into participation in gay marriage and punished, where they refused.
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I've never heard of someone being forced to marry someone of the same sex.



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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

WorldWatcher said:
I've never heard of someone being forced to marry someone of the same sex.



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I am sure you have heard of people being forced into heterosexual marriage though
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

joG said:
I have heard of persons being coerced into participation in gay marriage and punished, where they refused.
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Are you referring to for-profit businesses that hold out to the public being forced to comply with public accommodation laws?
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

AGENT J said:
1.) correct
2.) again there would be no FORCE and that would only be successful if they CHOOSE to break the law, become criminals and violate people rights like that bakery did

laws are laws and rights are rights

saying they are forced is like saying rap laws could force people to be virgins, its simply disingenuous

no business has been forced to participate in a gay marriage
VERY easy solution, dont choose to break the law and be a criminal and one wont face the consequences
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I thought we were seeing if there was precedent in some way that could be compared to making churches perform same sex marriage ceremonies against their conscience. Everything you said COULD be applied to churches who refuse to perform same sex marriage in violation of their conscience and the Bible.

Words replaced to make the point:

"...again there would be no FORCE and that would only be successful if they CHOOSE to break the law, become criminals and violate people rights like that Church or Christian Minister did. Laws are laws and rights are rights. Saying they are forced is like saying rap laws could force people to be virgins, its simply disingenuous...no Church or Christian minister has been forced to participate in a gay marriage. VERY easy solution, dont choose to break the law and be a criminal and one wont face the consequences..."

The Bakery owner was a person of faith and their faith dictated if they participated in a same-sex marriage ceremony, THEY would be in sin against God. The government ruled they had to anyway so they simply closed their doors instead of committing what they believed to be sin. Although they have not yet been seen in America, you can take the same circumstances and apply them to those authorized to authenticate marriage licenses on behalf of the state and force Christian ministers to preside over same-sex marriages or give up their privilege of marrying members of their own congregations because not doing same-sex marriages would be a criminal act of discrimination.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

AGENT J said:
united states of america
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Then you are wrong. People have been punished for not participating or assisting in gay matrimony festivities. As a matter of fact the various incidents were discussed here in the forum.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

WorldWatcher said:
I've never heard of someone being forced to marry someone of the same sex.



>>>>
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Well that is not a surprise. Of course, I didn't say that either.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Deuce said:
Are you referring to for-profit businesses that hold out to the public being forced to comply with public accommodation laws?
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I was referring to the persons. CompanyCompanydo not have religious beliefs. People do. If you force a business, you force a person.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Smeagol said:
1.)I thought we were seeing if there was precedent in some way that could be compared to making churches perform same sex marriage ceremonies against their conscience. Everything you said COULD be applied to churches who refuse to perform same sex marriage in violation of their conscience and the Bible.

2.)Words replaced to make the point:

"...again there would be no FORCE and that would only be successful if they CHOOSE to break the law, become criminals and violate people rights like that Church or Christian Minister did. Laws are laws and rights are rights. Saying they are forced is like saying rap laws could force people to be virgins, its simply disingenuous...no Church or Christian minister has been forced to participate in a gay marriage. VERY easy solution, dont choose to break the law and be a criminal and one wont face the consequences..."

3.)The Bakery owner was a person of faith and their faith dictated if they participated in a same-sex marriage ceremony, THEY would be in sin against God.
4.) The government ruled they had to anyway
5.) so they simply closed their doors instead of committing what they believed to be sin.
6.) Although they have not yet been seen in America, you can take the same circumstances and apply them to those authorized to authenticate marriage licenses on behalf of the state and force Christian ministers to preside over same-sex marriages or give up their privilege of marrying members of their own congregations because not doing same-sex marriages would be a criminal act of discrimination.
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1.) no it couldnt because the church is protected by the constitution and it can LEGALLY discrimination in the religious realm
2.) replace all the words you want it instantly fails because there is no ILLEGAL discrimination there for not CRIME or LAW broken, so your point fails based on facts and legality
3.) meaningless, a baker isnt religious and has nothing to do with religion, if they cant play by the same rules as we ALL have to play by then dont run a business its that simple. Same reasons why st. johns hospital cant just refuse gay patients . Im a christian and i would have to be a complete moron to think that i get special treatment when i open up a business and I get to break laws and infringe on the rights others
4.) yes the government rule they dont get special treatment and get to break the law lol
5.) good move they never should have been dumb enough to open them
6.) no you cant as long as its in a CHURCH and RELIGIOUS REALM because like facts, the law and history prove ZERO laws are broken


this is a very simple concept

the church discriminant breaks ZERO laws there for theres no precedence to use against them and the Constitution would have to be amended for them to be breaking the law
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

joG said:
Then you are wrong. People have been punished for not participating or assisting in gay matrimony festivities. As a matter of fact the various incidents were discussed here in the forum.
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sorry facts prove your claim wrong, not ONE single person has been punished for not participating or assisting in gay matrimony festivities . . . not one lol
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

AGENT J said:
sorry facts prove your claim wrong, not ONE single person has been punished for not participating or assisting in gay matrimony festivities . . . not one lol
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Odd that you don't remember. But maybe that is your problem. In any event, last time someone took that position and posted a few links. This time around you can.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

joG said:
Odd that you don't remember. But maybe that is your problem. In any event, last time someone took that position and posted a few links. This time around you can.
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not my problem at all it factually as never happened if you disagree prove otherwise lol
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

roguenuke said:
From who? Extremists? Certainly not a majority of same sex marriage supporters.
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"Same-sex marriage supporters" are, by way of thier beliefs, extremists.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

The Baron said:
"Same-sex marriage supporters" are, by way of thier beliefs, extremists.
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nothing extreme about equal rights lol
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

joG said:
It hardly seems probable that the Catholics or Lutherans could marry homos. If they do, they will have become new religions.
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I don't disagree but who would have thought that the Catholic church would ever pay for abortions. But, thanks to Obamacare, that's happening.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

The Baron said:
I don't disagree but who would have thought that the Catholic church would ever pay for abortions. But, thanks to Obamacare, that's happening.
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That is something that I noted and was somewhat surprised by. Up till now that would have made the law unconstitutional.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

The Baron said:
"Same-sex marriage supporters" are, by way of thier beliefs, extremists.
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No, they aren't. They are in fact a majority and in no way extreme. Only severely biased people would believe otherwise.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

First, once again, a poll placed in the "Debate Political Polls .. Polls" section of the forum has its numerical results distorted by visitor spam voting. We would all do well to simply post a poll and its topic in the appropriate topical section and to not post in the special polls section until this problem in the polls section gets fixed.

As to the topic ..

.. At what point do religious organizations have exemption with respect to the U.S. constitution?

If a church starts a private school and wants to exclude African Americans, are they not in violation of the 14th Amendment? Do they get a free pass because they're a religious organization?

If the SCOTUS in June decides that there is a constitutional right for any two people to marry, and a church chooses to do marriages, but they say they refuse, however, to perform same-sex marriages, will they also not be in violation of the appropriate part of the U.S. constitution? Will they get a free pass because they're a religious organization?

It's a valid question.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

AGENT J said:
1.) no it couldnt because the church is protected by the constitution and it can LEGALLY discrimination in the religious realm
2.) replace all the words you want it instantly fails because there is no ILLEGAL discrimination there for not CRIME or LAW broken, so your point fails based on facts and legality
3.) meaningless, a baker isnt religious and has nothing to do with religion, if they cant play by the same rules as we ALL have to play by then dont run a business its that simple. Same reasons why st. johns hospital cant just refuse gay patients . Im a christian and i would have to be a complete moron to think that i get special treatment when i open up a business and I get to break laws and infringe on the rights others
4.) yes the government rule they dont get special treatment and get to break the law lol
5.) good move they never should have been dumb enough to open them
6.) no you cant as long as its in a CHURCH and RELIGIOUS REALM because like facts, the law and history prove ZERO laws are broken


this is a very simple concept

the church discriminant breaks ZERO laws there for theres no precedence to use against them and the Constitution would have to be amended for them to be breaking the law
Click to expand...

no it couldnt because the church is protected by the constitution and it can LEGALLY discrimination in the religious realm

The Constitution is supposed to affirm the rights of "the people." The Church is only protected as it is made up of people. Not the first time the courts have gotten in wrong, IMHO.

Same reasons why st. johns hospital cant just refuse gay patients

Wow. There's nothing in scripture that teaches treating the sick is sinful regardless of the spiritual condition of the patient.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

joG said:
That is something that I noted and was somewhat surprised by. Up till now that would have made the law unconstitutional.
Click to expand...

It does make the law Unconstitutional. I believe we are still waiting on the courts to rule one way or another.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

roguenuke said:
No, they aren't. They are in fact a majority and in no way extreme. Only severely biased people would believe otherwise.
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Riiiight. Whatever helps you sleep at night, hon.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Smeagol said:
1.)The Constitution is supposed to affirm the rights of "the people." The Church is only protected as it is made up of people. Not the first time the courts have gotten in wrong, IMHO.

2.)Wow. There's nothing in scripture that teaches treating the sick is sinful regardless of the spiritual condition of the patient.
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1.) we arent talking about your opinion we are talking about law and facts and theres no legal precedence to go after the church and the break no laws with their LEGAL discrimination so unless the constitution changes theres nothing there. AGain if you disagree simply proved the factual LEGALITY that can be used.

2.) LOL doesnt have to be, if you dont like that example that same hospital cant deny someone spousal privileges if they arent married in the churches eyes or gay etc etc. DOnt try to deflect or over think the example was based on LAW and rights.


this is a very simple concept

the church discriminating breaks ZERO laws there for theres no precedence to use against them and nor will there be unless the Constitution is amended
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Ontologuy said:
First, once again, a poll placed in the "Debate Political Polls .. Polls" section of the forum has its numerical results distorted by visitor spam voting. We would all do well to simply post a poll and its topic in the appropriate topical section and to not post in the special polls section until this problem in the polls section gets fixed.

As to the topic ..

.. At what point do religious organizations have exemption with respect to the U.S. constitution?

If a church starts a private school and wants to exclude African Americans, are they not in violation of the 14th Amendment? Do they get a free pass because they're a religious organization?

If the SCOTUS in June decides that there is a constitutional right for any two people to marry, and a church chooses to do marriages, but they say they refuse, however, to perform same-sex marriages, will they also not be in violation of the appropriate part of the U.S. constitution? Will they get a free pass because they're a religious organization?

It's a valid question.
Click to expand...

Some faith-based organizations legally may discriminate. A faith-based school may only accept students of one gender and require all faculty be that gender, for example.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

joG said:
That is something that I noted and was somewhat surprised by. Up till now that would have made the law unconstitutional.
Click to expand...

It still does. Willful refusal, on the part of government, to obey the Constitution, does not in the least change what the Constitution says, what it allows, nor what it disallows. It only reveals the disturbing, growing lawlessness and corruption of our government.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

The Baron said:
It does make the law Unconstitutional. I believe we are still waiting on the courts to rule one way or another.
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The ObamaCare scam would be unconstitutional anywsy, if for no other reason than that it represents a power grab on the part of the federal government, far beyond the Constitutional bounds thereof; and therefore a blatant violation of the Tenth Amendment.

Requiring those who oppose the savage murder if innocent children to participate therein is just an extra superfluous layer of lawless disregard for the Constitution as well as of basic human rights.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

The Baron said:
Riiiight. Whatever helps you sleep at night, hon.
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Here is the definition of "extremist".

https://dictionary.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEVu5Wc71UiWkAbRslnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTB0N25ndmVnBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1lIUzAwNF8x?p=extremist&.sep=

Does not fit the vast majority of same sex marriage supporters. Although it can fit certain anti-gay people, such as those priests who wanted to put gays in fences and drop in water or WBC or the one who wanted to hit children for showing signs of not acting "straight" enough.
 
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