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Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?


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AGENT J

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Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
no
yes
other

Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
why now, magically, will this change?
why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
no
yes
other

Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
why now, magically, will this change?
why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!

Theres a thread about this here...
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/213699-should-churches-forced-perform-gay-marriages-17.html
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration


no theres not, that is a COMPLETELY different question
asking if a person believes they SHOULD be (which there aren't any here that do) and if its a reasonable fear that it could ever happen are entirely different questions.
Your mistake, thanks
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

no theres not, that is a COMPLETELY different question
asking if a person believes they SHOULD be (which there aren't any here that do) and if its a reasonable fear that it could ever happen are entirely different questions.
Your mistake, thanks

:lol:
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

The way you asked this question, I answered no. It is a similar stance to the other thread on this subject though and based on the same conclusion.

If we are going to go for separation of church and state then we have a two way street there we have to respect. If we are going to remove the church going to government to define what is and is not marriage, then we have to ensure the government does not go to the church and force them to marry whoever shows up. Both are based on the same 1st Amendment interpretation. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" meaning the church cannot appeal to Congress and subject the populace to the will of the church *and* the people cannot appeal to Congress and force the church to change their exercise of their faith. It is right there in plain English, and it would be a huge travesty of freedoms to suggest that the church must perform a marriage they do not want to at the will of the law. If the church does not own marriage (meaning it can be obtained elsewhere and there is no outright "ownership" of the service) then there is no Constitutional argument that the church must be forced to perform said service. That would be a direct violation of the 1st Amendment, and challenged on that merit.

(Appreciate this coming from an agnostic.)
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

The way you asked this question, I answered no. It is a similar stance to the other thread on this subject though and based on the same conclusion.

1.) If we are going to go for separation of church and state then we have a two way street there we have to respect.
2.) If we are going to remove the church going to government to define what is and is not marriage, then we have to ensure the government does not go to the church and force them to marry whoever shows up.
3.) Both are based on the same 1st Amendment interpretation. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" meaning the church cannot appeal to Congress and subject the populace to the will of the church *and* the people cannot appeal to Congress and force the church to change their exercise of their faith.
4.) It is right there in plain English, and it would be a huge travesty of freedoms to suggest that the church must perform a marriage they do not want to at the will of the law.
5.) If the church does not own marriage (meaning it can be obtained elsewhere and there is no outright "ownership" of the service)
6.) then there is no Constitutional argument that the church must be forced to perform said service. That would be a direct violation of the 1st Amendment, and challenged on that merit.
7.)(Appreciate this coming from an agnostic.)

1.) we already have it
2.) agreed but theres nothing to remove church already has zero say in legal marriage and government already has zero say in religious/spiritual marriage
they are already separate
3.) as long as its a "church" and has long as its within parameters yes. there are extremes where the church can just do what ever it wants
4.) agreed a HUGE travesty that is very well blocked and highly unlikely unless we change the constitution
5.) theres no IF, the church factually does not own legal marriage
6.) agreed 100%
7.) not sure why that matters but ok, anybody that understands and respect rights should agree
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

so nobody thinks its likely or logical . . . . why am i not surprised . . .

another fear tactic and conspiracy throry bites the dust
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
no
yes
other

Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
why now, magically, will this change?
why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!

-Anti-LGBT arguments are mostly based in religion.
-By far the dominant religion in the US is Christianity.
-One of Christianity's fundamental precepts is "Thou shalt not give false testimony against thy neighbor."
-Anti-LGBT arguments such as the ones described in the OP give false testimony against one's neighbor.

Who are we to trust people who won't even follow their basic precepts??
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I don't see it happening outside of isolated incidents.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Over 44% of people in the other thread clicked yes to "churches should be forced to preform gay marriages." Small survey sure and not indicative of the overall population, but if we just say Debate readers/pollsters, then it is clear that this pole should be yes as well.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.)-Anti-LGBT arguments are mostly based in religion.
2.) -By far the dominant religion in the US is Christianity.
3.) -One of Christianity's fundamental precepts is "Thou shalt not give false testimony against thy neighbor." Anti-LGBT arguments such as the ones described in the OP give false testimony against one's neighbor.


Who are we to trust people who won't even follow their basic precepts??
1.) sadly this is true but MILLIONS of chrisitinas respect equal rights and support them
2.) also true see #2
3.)weird im a christian and i see ZERO reason to infringe on others equal rights nor does anybody at my church including clergy. Also theres nothign about respecting equal rights that factually gives false testimony
but there are Christians out there that do want to infringe on rights
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Over 44% of people in the other thread clicked yes to "churches should be forced to preform gay marriages." Small survey sure and not indicative of the overall population, but if we just say Debate readers/pollsters, then it is clear that this pole should be yes as well.

what thread? theres no body here that things they should be forced the poll was spammed
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.) sadly this is true but MILLIONS of chrisitinas respect equal rights and support them
2.) also true see #2
3.)weird im a christian and i see ZERO reason to infringe on others equal rights nor does anybody at my church including clergy. Also theres nothign about respecting equal rights that factually gives false testimony
but there are Christians out there that do want to infringe on rights

I'm not talking about all Christians, but the ones who won't even follow their basic beliefs.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I'm not talking about all Christians, but the ones who won't even follow their basic beliefs.

i get that but what basic beliefs are you talking about.
the example you pointed out isnt a violation

also id say the vast majority of religious people dont follow all thier beliefs. i certainly dont, i have no problem admitting that nor would i ever (follow them all)
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I'm not talking about all Christians, but the ones who won't even follow their basic beliefs.

Just because someone labels themselves a Christian doesn't mean they have the same beliefs as other people who also label themselves Christian. Everyone believes what they want to believe and stamps whatever label they want to use on their forehead.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
no
yes
other

Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
why now, magically, will this change?
why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!

Why is it so far fetched when Christian businesses have already been forced to either participate in gay weddings, or go out of business? We either have religious freedom, or we don't.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Why is it so far fetched when Christian businesses have already been forced to either participate in gay weddings, or go out of business? We either have religious freedom, or we don't.

Because Churches regularly deny marrying couples.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Because Churches regularly deny marrying couples.

I'm sure the militant gay lobby are working on that as we speak. They might even succeed. I doubt it, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I'm sure the militant gay lobby are working on that as we speak. They might even succeed. I doubt it, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

Unless I can be corrected, I don't think there is even a legal precedent requiring Churches to do so for interracial couples. Marriages from the state cannot discriminate, but as far as I am aware, those protections go out the window when a Church is conducting a religious ceremony.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.)Why is it so far fetched when Christian businesses have already been forced to either participate in gay weddings, or go out of business?
2.) We either have religious freedom, or we don't.

1.) thats easy, because ZERO businesses have been FORCED to participate in gay weddings or go out of business
2.) religious freedom is exactly the reason why its silly to believe churches will be forced, they wont because of religious freedom
but to speak more directly of your comment, no freedom works like you just stated . . .speech, religions etc
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.) thats easy, because ZERO businesses have been FORCED to participate in gay weddings or go out of business
2.) religious freedom is exactly the reason why its silly to believe churches will be forced, they wont because of religious freedom
but to speak more directly of your comment, no freedom works like you just stated . . .speech, religions etc

Whatever....
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Whatever....
LMAO
if facts bother you dont ask the question.
if you disagree with the facts please list the business that were FORCED to participate in gay weddings or go out of business?
you will find you cant list any. . . .not ONE . . what you will find is some people that BROKE THE LAW and VIOLATED rights, laws and ordinances . . . .

churches, as facts prove because i bet 1000+ did so just today. . . are NOT violating any laws, or violating rights, laws or ordinances by denying religious marriage . . .

HUGE difference, facts and reality are important
let me know if theres anythign else i can help with
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Whatever....

Well, guy, if you can't demonstrate how religious wedding ceremonies have been required to abide by similar protections for other protected groups, your suspicions are irrational.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.)I'm sure the militant gay lobby are working on that as we speak.
2.)hey might even succeed.
3.) I doubt it, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

1.) what is the militant gay lobby? seems you are including everybody in the gay lobby which is the fast majority of the country and you would be wrong
2.) not unless the constitution is amended
3.) see #2
 
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