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Is radical Islam compatible with a free society?

Is radical Islam compatible with a free society?

  • Total voters
    55
Paleocon said:
Islam is fundamentally incompatible with liberal freedom, as are all traditional religions, including Christianity. Although some can and will bastardize it like they have Christianity.

While distinctly Islamic positions should not be supported, Muslim conservatives should be supported in their fights in their own countries against liberalism.
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I would totally disagree with your contention that Christianity should be lumped in as incompatable with a free society. The objective standard that guides Christianity is the bible, which clearly states that Christians should submit to ones government.

1 Peter 2:13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— 16as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. 17Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
 
johndylan1 said:
I would totally disagree with your contention that Christianity should be lumped in as incompatable with a free society. The objective standard that guides Christianity is the bible, which clearly states that Christians should submit to ones government.
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Since the free society does not wants pedophiles then Christianity is incompatible with a free society also.
 
Apocalypse said:
No, not all.

Turkey is an example of one Muslim society that rejected its radical elements...
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No, there are other Muslim countries that also reject radical elements, such as Dardania and Albania:
Hashim Thaçi: Ekstremizmi fetar është fenomen shumë kompleks. Shumë njerëz me shkollim të ultë dhe gjendje të keqe materiale ndikohen më lehtë nga ekstremistët dhe propaganda e fëlliqur e tyre. Propaguesit e ekstremizmit fetar, përfshi disa imamë, marrin shuma marramendëse nga kanale të ndryshme në një anë dhe jetojnë një jetë luksi amoral, por në anën tjetër po gënjejnë të varfrit me ekstremizëm fetar. Por, ne kemi pasur edhe raste të terroristëve Dardane të dyshuar që po luftojnë në Siri që kanë prejardhjen nga familje të pasura, që kanë fakultete të përfunduara dhe që kanë pasur vende stabile të punës. Shumë prej tyre janë indoktrinuar nga rrjetet sociale dhe nga predikimet në internet.

Dardania si shtet me popullsi shumicë myslimane, por me rend kushtetues laik dhe me prirje të qarta pro-europiane, është halë në sy e atyre që nuk durojnë stilin tonë të jetesës – dhe aty kemi bashkëpunim midis klero-nacionalistëve serbë dhe ekstremistëve myslimanë. Që të dy palët ëndërrojnë të na prishin me aleatin historik dhe partnerin strategjik Amerikën. Ju e dini që ne kemi refuzuar me vendosmëri më 1998-99 çfarëdo roli të vullnetarëve ekstremistë nga Lindja e Mesme në UÇK. Kemi kundërshtuar tendencat e njollosjes së luftës tonë përpara dhe do të kundërshtojmë njollosjen e Dardanisë sot nga ekstremistët fetarë.

Edhe grupet ekstremiste djathtiste serbe edhe fanatikët islamikë të inspiruar nga ngjarjet në Lindje të Mesme, dëshirojnë dëmtimin e Dardanisë dhe aleancës tonë me Amerikë, se ne jemi dëshmi e gjallë që diversiteti dhe toleranca fetare mund t’u mbijetojnë tendencave për gjenocid dhe shkatërrim të një populli.
- See more at: Ekstremistët duan të na prishin me Amerikën | Politiko
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Translation:

Hashim Thaci: Religious Extremism is a very complex phenomenon. Many people with low education and poor material condition more easily influenced by extremists and their filthy propaganda. Propaguesit of religious extremism, including some imams, take enormous amounts of different channels on one side and live an immoral life of luxury, but on the other hand the poor are lying with religious extremism. But, we have had cases of suspected terrorists Dardanians who are fighting in Syria descended from wealthy families, who finished faculties and have a stable job. Many of them are indoctrinated from social networks and online sermons.

Dardania as a state with a majority Muslim population, but with a secular constitutional order and the clear trend pro-European, is the thorn in the side of those who endure our style of living - and there have cooperation among clears-Serb nationalists and Muslim extremists. Both sides dream spoil us with historic ally and strategic partner America. You know that we have firmly rejected any role 1998-99 extremists volunteers from the Middle East in the KLA. We opposed the war trends stain our front and will oppose Dardania soiling today by religious extremists.

Serbian right-wing extremist groups and Islamic fanatics inspired by events in the Middle East, like damaging Dardania and our alliance with America, that we are living proof that diversity and religious tolerance can survive the trends of genocide and destruction of a people.
- See more at: Ekstremistët duan të na prishin me Amerikën | Politiko
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After Enver Hoxha, the former Albanian president, I think Muslim extremists have a good reason not to try becoming radicals there again.

Plus, what about UAE? Especially Dubai?

Plenty of countries that reject radical elements other than Turkiye.
 
DDD said:
Since the free society does not wants pedophiles then Christianity is incompatible with a free society also.
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I hesitate to ask but you'll have to cite for me where you find pedophilia as a accepted doctrine of the Christian religion.
 
Phys251 said:
Arabs sure aren't white, I can tell you that. It is not difficult to see how Islamophobia and racism are almost inextricably linked, unless you are in denial.
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I couldn't disagree with this more. Judgments about radical Islam are being made by considering their acts (that's how we know they are radical). Not by their race. Secondly volitional acts are guided by the will, which in turn is guided by ones philosophical understanding of correct behavior. Again not race.
 
DDD said:
Only in practice, you know, where it really matters.
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That isn't Christianity. That is evil perpetrated by those who profess to be Christians. A distinction I'm not sure is appropriate to equally claim for radical vs moderate Islam. No pedophile declares that it is a correct part of their Christian religion to engage in pedophilia, while the radical Islamist does indeed attribute his acts to his submission to God.
 
johndylan1 said:
That isn't Christianity. That is evil perpetrated by those who profess to be Christians. A distinction I'm not sure is appropriate to equally claim for radical vs moderate Islam. No pedophile declares that it is a correct part of their Christian religion to engage in pedophilia, while the radical Islamist does indeed attribute his acts to his submission to God.
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Ah, the no-true-Christian fallacy. :roll:
 
Cephus said:
Ah, the no-true-Christian fallacy. :roll:
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Not following you, here. The standard for a religious affiliation isn't behavior contrary to its professed values. It is behavior consistent with professed values. As I said NO CHRISTIAN PEDOPHILE claims their pedophilia is attributable to their Christianity. Therefore there is no fallacy.
 
johndylan1 said:
Not following you, here. The standard for a religious affiliation isn't behavior contrary to its professed values. It is behavior consistent with professed values. As I said NO CHRISTIAN PEDOPHILE claims their pedophilia is attributable to their Christianity. Therefore there is no fallacy.
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But it doesn't stop them from being Christian, even if they don't claim their Christianity was responsible for their actions. There's an unfortunate tendency for some theists to claim that anyone who does things they don't like can't really belong to their religious social club because nobody who was a member of their religious social club would do those things. It is a recognized logical fallacy, typically called the "no true Scotsman fallacy", but Christians have used it so often, it's commonly renamed the "no true Christian fallacy" under those circumstances.
 
Kobie said:
What, you want a zip code?

Where Islam is most prevalent is also where other conditions that often lead to radicalization are prominent -- abject poverty and government repression, to name a couple.
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Sounds like where sharia law is implemented.
 
johndylan1 said:
I would totally disagree with your contention that Christianity should be lumped in as incompatable with a free society. The objective standard that guides Christianity is the bible, which clearly states that Christians should submit to ones government.

1 Peter 2:13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— 16as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. 17Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
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I haven't the slightest idea how you interpret a passage telling people to submit to the authorities as being pro-freedom.
 
US Conservative said:
No I did not Kobie.
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Yes you did, US Conservative. Yes you did.

ORIGINAL POST:

US Conservative said:
2000 nigerians are believed killed today after a Boko Haram attack. Yesterday many died in Paris by local muslims. In france on new years day alone, nearly 1000 cars were burned by islamic "protestors". ISIS continues to flourish.



World wide, the death toll continues to climb-whats clear is that the presence of islam often leads to violence, in fact many of the worlds current military conflicts involve islam in a significant way. We live in an international world, where relations between nations matter, and where many value a free society.

Is radical Islam compatible with a free society?
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FIRST REPLY:

Cardinal said:
I don't think any radical ideology is compatible with a free society.
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YOUR RESPONSE, POST 3:

US Conservative said:
Interesting so since you see Islam as incompatible with a free society, do you think steps should be taken to curtail it?
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Note the removal of the word "radical" in your response?
 
Kobie said:
Yes you did, US Conservative. Yes you did.

ORIGINAL POST:



FIRST REPLY:





YOUR RESPONSE, POST 3:



Note the removal of the word "radical" in your response?
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Kobie, thats already been clarified. You really should read before you post. You will gain what you are missing-context.
 
US Conservative said:
Kobie, thats already been clarified. You really should read before you post. You will gain what you are missing-context.
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There's nothing to clarify. You specifically omitted the word "Radical" in the third post of the thread. I have no interest in your rationalizations.
 
Kobie said:
There's nothing to clarify. You specifically omitted the word "Radical" in the third post of the thread. I have no interest in your rationalizations.
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Kobie, why do you continue to hunt for strawmen instead of substantively contributing to the discussion?
 
US Conservative said:
Kobie, why do you continue to hunt for strawmen instead of substantively contributing to the discussion?
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Don't move the goalposts and I won't call you on it. It's called honest debate, US Conservative. Try it sometime.
 
US Conservative said:
No goal posts have been moved. I swear you only know 3 or 4 "defenses" and use them in order. :lamo
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Well, you resort to the same 3 or 4 logical fallacies. Not hard to pick them out.
 
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