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Did the NYPD do the right thing by turning their backs on the mayor?

Did the NYPD do the right thing by turning their backs on the mayor?


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Chirlane and I have had to talk to Dante for years about the dangers he may face. He’s a good young man, law abiding young man who never would think to do anything wrong. And yet because of a history that still hangs over us, the dangers he may face, we’ve had to literally train him, as families have all over this city for decades, in how to take special care in any encounter he has with the police officers—who are there to protect him. … For so many of our young people there’s a fear and for so many of our families there’s a fear. So I’ve had to worry over the years. Chirlane’s had to worry, “Is Dante safe?” each night. There’re so many families in the city who feel that each and every night: “Is my child safe?” And not just from the painful realities of crime and violence in some of our neighborhoods but, are they safe from the very people they want to have faith in as their protectors. That’s reality. …

You’ve heard in so many places, people of all backgrounds utter the same basic phrase. They’ve said, black lives matter. And they said it because it had to be said. It’s a phrase…that should be self-evident. But our history sadly requires us to say, black lives matter.



New York City Mayor Says, #BlackLivesMatter - COLORLINES

I remember watching this, and thinking, 'he just threw the cops under the bus', and sure enough, by the next day, the copy felt they had been throw under the bus as well.


So saying that his son being a black male being stopped more often than white males (which is true, statistic prove this), and recognizing that racism still exists in our society (which is true), and he even praises the NYPD, and somehow this means "GO KILL COPS!"? Seriously? If speaking of the factual realities of our country is "throwing the cops under the bus", maybe we have a problem of some members of society facing the reality of events in this country and less of a basic partisan problem....
 
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So saying that his son being a black male being stopped more often than white males (which is true, statistic prove this), and recognizing that racism still exists in our society (which is true), means "GO KILL COPS!"? Seriously? If speaking of the factual realities of the countries is "throwing the cops under the bus", maybe we have a problem of some members of society facing the reality of events in this country and less of a basic partisan problem....

It really doesn't matter much what you or I think or what you or I feel about this. It matters a great deal what the cops think and what the cops feel about this. They think and feel that they've been thrown under the bus.

The cops, in unison, across the nation, and indeed across to other nations as well, react to de Basio's words that they were thrown under the bus by the mayor. This is going to poison this vitally important relationship, between of the office of the mayor and the police force, and, as makes no difference, renders this particular mayor as ineffective and incapable of properly discharging the duties of his elected office. Perhaps he should resign.

Frankly, I think he shouldn't have been showing off his progressive / liberal cred in this instance, he should have been a leader and backed up his police force, or perhaps not said anything at all. Why did he wade in, into a no win situation for him, and say what he did? Where's his gain for saying what he did? He has none that I can see. How foolish is that?
 
Wrong. The police should be held to the same standard - they are not above the law. The problem is not the occasional rogue cop but the government prosecutor allowing that criminal allegation to go unchallenged in court. The sane, among the protestors, realize this simple truth and are calling for legal accountability not some mythical training seminar to turn things around. De Blasio wants to be seen as "on the right side" by babbling BS about racist and extremely violent police actions yet calls for training which most sane folks reject as simply political BS. You do not hold he entire NYPD accountable (or call for their training) for the criminal actions of any individual officer just as you do not hold all blacks accoutable (or call for their training) for the criminal actions of any indivdual black person.
I don't believe I said anything about the mayor, of course he should be held to a higher standard. If the police think the mayor disrespected , they should confront with it. I don't believe they should be doing it at policeman's funeral.
 
Think it comes down to how the family of Officer Rafael Ramos felt about having the protest. If they support that then I see nothing wrong.

My only concern was that the protest overshadowed the funeral of a husband and father of two sons. In three pages of postings not one person has even mention the named of Officer Rafael Ramos.

For Officer Ramos's two sons it was good for them to see the number of fellow police officers who came to give their respect. They will remember that long line of blue for the rest of their lives.

Even Vice President Biden whom many here despise had some heartfelt words for the Ramos family. I thought his comment
“He will be part of your life for the entirety of your life.”
was very poignant and words of wisdom for these two young men.


http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...tes-from-the-funeral-of-officer-rafael-ramos/
 
The NYPD can act like victims if they like, but they're certainly still in the wrong on this whole issue.
 
It really doesn't matter much what you or I think or what you or I feel about this. It matters a great deal what the cops think and what the cops feel about this. They think and feel that they've been thrown under the bus.
Saying that only a handful of the police turned their backs... What does that mean?


The cops, in unison, across the nation, and indeed across to other nations as well, react to de Basio's words that they were thrown under the bus by the mayor.
They did?
And so this has came to "meh my opinion doesnt matter, we must respect my authoritahhhh!"?
Why should the police be upset by this? All he did was 1.)speak to the factual situations in this country 2.)HE PRAISED THE NYPD..... '

This is going to poison this vitally important relationship, between of the office of the mayor and the police force, and, as makes no difference, renders this particular mayor as ineffective and incapable of properly discharging the duties of his elected office. Perhaps he should resign.
What is? Speaking to the reality? Seriously? What did he do!?

Frankly, I think he shouldn't have been showing off his progressive / liberal cred in this instance, he should have been a leader and backed up his police force, or perhaps not said anything at all.
Sorry. Sometimes facts our facts... If you or the hundred of police officers who decided to turn their backs is not recognizing basic facts that he spoke to a couple months ago is "disrespect" then again we have a bigger problem on our hands....

Why did he wade in, into a no win situation for him, and say what he did?
Because its REALITY....

Where's his gain for saying what he did? He has none that I can see. How foolish is that?
Gain? I dont think he was thinking of "gain". IT WAS REALITY OF WHAT HAPPENS.
 
Those officers showed as much maturity as a two-year-old throwing a temper tantrum. If they feel that disrespected, they are more than willing to do everyone a favor and resign.

And I don't wanna hear any of this "put yourself in the officers' shoes" bullcrap. When you wear a police badge, especially for a highly-esteemed force such as the NYPD, you WILL be held to a higher standard of conduct. Any officer that cannot handle that level of scrutiny needs to GTFO already.
 
Saying that only a handful of the police turned their backs... What does that mean?

Eh? Referring to what? The fact of the matter is that all the policemen at the funeral turned their back to de Blasio, and all the policemen at the hospital did the same. Where's this 'only a handful' that you are talking about? From my observation it was 100% or dam near it.

They did?
And so this has came to "meh my opinion doesnt matter, we must respect my authoritahhhh!"?

Well, yes. In the relationship between the mayor and his police force, either of our opinions don't matter. The opinion of the police force matter a great deal as they are so many, and are so critical to keeping the city from tearing itself apart, keeping the lid on the zoo, as it were. Just imagine what shape the city would be in if the blue flu took over for a week, what shape it'd be in then. You don't want to antagonize the NYPD, clearly the mayor did. The rest of society counts on the police for so much, I guess the police believe they've forgotten and have taken it for granted or something.

Why should the police be upset by this? All he did was 1.)speak to the factual situations in this country 2.)HE PRAISED THE NYPD..... '

Well apparently not in their eyes.

What is? Speaking to the reality? Seriously? What did he do!?


Sorry. Sometimes facts our facts... If you or the hundred of police officers who decided to turn their backs is not recognizing basic facts that he spoke to a couple months ago is "disrespect" then again we have a bigger problem on our hands....


Because its REALITY....


Gain? I dont think he was thinking of "gain". IT WAS REALITY OF WHAT HAPPENS.

Sometimes the greatest wisdom is known when not to speak, and if speaking knowing what to say and how to say it. Seems in this case this mayor failed in a rather spectacular fashion.
 
Did the Mayor do something classless at the funeral?

No idea if he did or didn't. He may have, or he may not have.

If he doubled down and basically repeated what he said before, he would have only thrown more gas on an already raging inferno likely to prematurely end his term in office.
 
The fact that we are talking about this*, and not the other more important issues, is proof positive that the "gesture" was selfish and about them. Eff everybody and everything else.

*-The media and talk shows are also talking about the 'back turning' still, as well.
 
The fact that we are talking about this*, and not the other more important issues, is proof positive that the "gesture" was selfish and about them. Eff everybody and everything else.

*-The media and talk shows are also talking about the 'back turning' still, as well.

Generally bad policy to to do something that a significant partner of course considers as betraying them. Right, wrong, or indifferent, should that significant partner perceive it as such, it isn't something that you should do. So in this, I think it's the mayor that fired the first shot, not the NYPD.
 
Eh? Referring to what? The fact of the matter is that all the policemen at the funeral turned their back to de Blasio, and all the policemen at the hospital did the same. Where's this 'only a handful' that you are talking about? From my observation it was 100% or dam near it.
Not ture. 25,000 police attended, and reports say "several hundred turned their backs"... Not even close to "all"..



Well, yes. In the relationship between the mayor and his police force, either of our opinions don't matter.
Wait so then why are you here on this poll? If our "opinons dont matter" then why are you here in this thread?

The opinion of the police force matter a great deal as they are so many, and are so critical to keeping the city from tearing itself apart, keeping the lid on the zoo, as it were.
Oh wow.... Oh wow...
mskm7k.jpg



Just imagine what shape the city would be in if the blue flu took over for a week, what shape it'd be in then.
Whats a "blue flu"? Is this some imaginary disease?

You don't want to antagonize the NYPD, clearly the mayor did.
Can you answer this? : Is speaking to the FACTUAL realities of the situation "antagonizing"?

The rest of society counts on the police for so much,
Ok... So speaking of the FACTUAL REALTIES is what? Doing what?

I guess the police believe they've forgotten and have taken it for granted or something.
So again, speaking of the factual realities of our country is somehow "throwing the police under the bus"?

Well apparently not in their eyes.
Soooo... Let me get this... Praising the NPYD (the police department in which he is the may of) is "throwing them under the bus"? WTF? What reality do you live in? What you want him to do? Get on his knees?



Sometimes the greatest wisdom is known when not to speak, and if speaking knowing what to say and how to say it. Seems in this case this mayor failed in a rather spectacular fashion.
So now its "well he should of just shut up and keep his zipper shut"? Well, wow.... "That big mayor, opening his mouth and talking about issues, what a dumbo! Its like all he needs to do is be a puppet head and do the typical smoke and mirrors show! Why should he ever have an opinion and speak about current issues!? What a disrespectful asshole! Respect our AUTHORTIAHH!!"
 
Generally bad policy to to do something that a significant partner of course considers as betraying them. Right, wrong, or indifferent, should that significant partner perceive it as such, it isn't something that you should do. So in this, I think it's the mayor that fired the first shot, not the NYPD.
I don't disagree that the Mayor "fired the first shot". I'm just saying the police would have done better to act like adults at the funeral, so the focus could stay on the slain officer, and reserve their grievances against the Mayor for another time. There will be plenty of time in negotiations and such to address this.

Maybe it's just me, but a funeral is for the deceased and their loved ones. Nobody else.
 
Not ture. 25,000 police attended, and reports say "several hundred turned their backs"... Not even close to "all"..
Yeah. OK, fine.
Wait so then why are you here on this poll? If our "opinons dont matter" then why are you here in this thread?
Poll or discussion thread? They both kinda look pretty much the same, don't they?
Oh wow.... Oh wow...
mskm7k.jpg
Yes, I consider NYC a zoo. A zoo from top to bottom, from North to South, from East to West, the entire thing, and the main exhibit are humans in far too close and densely packed living situation. Any number of phycosis can come from the stresses living like that.
Whats a "blue flu"? Is this some imaginary disease?
Historical reference. Before your time?
A "sickout", or (especially by uniformed police officers) "blue flu", is a type of strike action in which the strikers call in sick. This is used in cases where laws prohibit certain employees from declaring a strike. Police, firefighters, air traffic controllers, and teachers in some U.S. states, are among the groups commonly barred from striking usually by state and federal laws meant to ensure the safety or security of the general public.
Strike action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BLUE FLU Cops on strike, December 1970 - January 1971 cHAPTER 384 - NY Daily News
Images of America - Milwaukee Police Department
What Is the Blue Flu? (with pictures)
Can you answer this? : Is speaking to the FACTUAL realities of the situation "antagonizing"?
Ok... So speaking of the FACTUAL REALTIES is what? Doing what?
So again, speaking of the factual realities of our country is somehow "throwing the police under the bus"?
Covered below.
Soooo... Let me get this... Praising the NPYD (the police department in which he is the may of) is "throwing them under the bus"? WTF? What reality do you live in? What you want him to do? Get on his knees?
As I've stated all along. It doesn't matter what I think are the facts or are not, nor does it matter what you think the facts are or are not. What matters is what the police think the facts are or are not, and they think that the mayor has thrown them under the bus. It's both of their Dante's inferno to work through and work out of.

That in itself defines the situation, it's criticality, and the need for both the NYPD leaders and de Blasio to put a stop to this fairly pointless escalation between themselves before yet a more damaging thing explodes on the scene above and beyond a nutter whacking 2 on duty cops in their cruiser. Things can yet get far worse, like back to open warfare on cops and ambush killing of cops we've seen in this city before.

The shooting is believed to have been a targeted attack against police officers, and came less than a month after the murder of Seattle police officer Timothy Brenton under similar circumstances nearly 40 miles (64 km) to the north.
Lakewood, Washington police officer shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Get protesters to chat wanting dead cops, the police get worried.

So now its "well he should of just shut up and keep his zipper shut"? Well, wow.... "That big mayor, opening his mouth and talking about issues, what a dumbo! Its like all he needs to do is be a puppet head and do the typical smoke and mirrors show! Why should he ever have an opinion and speak about current issues!? What a disrespectful asshole! Respect our AUTHORTIAHH!!"

Your words, not mine. That's not at all what I said. What I said was: "Sometimes the greatest wisdom is know when not to speak, and if speaking knowing what to say and how to say it. Seems in this case this mayor failed in a rather spectacular fashion." I see no "well he should of just shut up and keep his zipper shut" here.

If de Blasio absolutely wanted, utterly felt compelled, to talk about what he did, I think he'd have been better advised to express it in terms that wouldn't antagonize the police force, to keep them on his side, or to win them back to his side, wouldn't antagonize any protestors, and would have brought an air calmness and civility to the situation. That would have been far more wise, in my estimation. Like I said, one would have thought that if he was as an accomplished politician as he thinks he is, he would have been able to pull it off, but I guess not.
 
I don't disagree that the Mayor "fired the first shot". I'm just saying the police would have done better to act like adults at the funeral, so the focus could stay on the slain officer, and reserve their grievances against the Mayor for another time. There will be plenty of time in negotiations and such to address this.

Maybe it's just me, but a funeral is for the deceased and their loved ones. Nobody else.

And I agree with you on this point, as I agreed with Kobie earlier in this thread. The funeral is in honor of the deceased, and in support of their families.

All I'm saying is that I understand the officer's position on this, and have come to realize that it's their perception of the situation that counts far more so than mine, yours, or anyone else's not directly involved. Maybe you'll have better luck with TheDemSocialist on this. He seems to not understand what I'm saying.
 
Yeah. OK, fine.
Yup

Poll or discussion thread? They both kinda look pretty much the same, don't they?
So I'm guessing you respect authority no matter what? You hold their opinion above yours not matter what? Its only fair to be consistent right?

Yes, I consider NYC a zoo. A zoo from top to bottom, from North to South, from East to West, the entire thing, and the main exhibit are humans in far too close and densely packed living situation. Any number of phycosis can come from the stresses living like that.
Cool benas.


Must be. So you think bringing up reality somehow will lead to or should lead to a police strike? Somehow this speech is in what relation to a police strike? So should the mayor literally get on his knnes?

As I've stated all along. It doesn't matter what I think are the facts or are not, nor does it matter what you think the facts are or are not. What matters is what the police think the facts are or are not, and they think that the mayor has thrown them under the bus.

Ok... So the few hundred of police who turned their backs are the all knowing and should be trusted no matter what, their opinion is held so high, even above the reality of events?


That in itself defines the situation, it's criticality, and the need for both the NYPD leaders and de Blasio to put a stop to this fairly pointless escalation between themselves before yet a more damaging thing explodes on the scene above and beyond a nutter whacking 2 on duty cops in their cruiser. Things can yet get far worse, like back to open warfare on cops and ambush killing of cops we've seen in this city before.
Their should be no escalation because the mayor did literally nothing wrong..

Lakewood, Washington police officer shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Get protesters to chat wanting dead cops, the police get worried.
This is a shame. Whats this have to do with this?

Your words, not mine. That's not at all what I said. What I said was: "Sometimes the greatest wisdom is know when not to speak, and if speaking knowing what to say and how to say it. Seems in this case this mayor failed in a rather spectacular fashion." I see no "well he should of just shut up and keep his zipper shut" here.
"the greatest wisdom is know when not to speak".. AKA he shouldnt talk..


If de Blasio absolutely wanted, utterly felt compelled, to talk about what he did, I think he'd have been better advised to express it in terms that wouldn't antagonize the police force, to keep them on his side, or to win them back to his side, wouldn't antagonize any protestors, and would have brought an air calmness and civility to the situation.
SPEAKING TO REALITY OF WHAT HAPPENS IS NOT "ATAGONIZING" THAT IS THE REALITY.


That would have been far more wise, in my estimation. Like I said, one would have thought that if he was as an accomplished politician as he thinks he is, he would have been able to pull it off, but I guess not.
Speaking the reality of events again is not atagonizing. ITS CALLED REALITY.
 
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Why not hold the mayor to a higher standard?
I'm not against that, but I think it's inappropriate to do it at a funeral, I think those policemen who turned their back were thinking of themselves and not the fallen policeman.
 
Yup


So I'm guessing you respect authority no matter what? You hold their opinion above yours not matter what? Its only fair to be consistent right?

In certain situations, for the greater good, yes.

Cool benas.



Must be. So you think bringing up reality somehow will lead to or should lead to a police strike? Somehow this speech is in what relation to a police strike?

You weren't familiar with the term 'blue flu', I was being helpful.

So should the mayor literally get on his knnes?

You keep bringing this up. I never have. You have a fixation or something?

No, what the mayor should have done was say what he wanted in such a way that the police wouldn't have found it objectionable, heck, isn't the mark of a really good politician to get you to support something that you don't like?

What the mayor needs to do now is make peace and mend fences with the NYPD leaders in private through whatever means needed. The dangers to the city and the population demand that at this point due to his earlier statements.

Ok... So the few hundred of police who turned their backs are the all knowing and should be trusted no matter what, their opinion is held so high, even above the reality of events?

What would you rather have? A supporting police force keeping the city and it's populace safe, working to improve relations with communities, or what is considered the truth for some small minority and the level of distrust and acrimony that you have now? What's more effective? What's better for city and it's residence?

Their should be no escalation because the mayor did literally nothing wrong..

This is a shame. Whats this have to do with this?

What's gonna happen when the MS13 gang in one of the burrows decides to take advantage of the situation, the strife in the NYPD ranks, the strife between NYPD and the major office and goes out and shoots a bunch of cops? That's more the calamity I was thinking about.

"the greatest wisdom is know when not to speak".. AKA he shouldnt talk.. [/quote]

That's only part of what I said. In full context it's ""Sometimes the greatest wisdom is know when not to speak, and if speaking knowing what to say and how to say it." It's going to be hard to have an honest conversation here when you selectively leave off so much of the context.

SPEAKING TO REALITY OF WHAT HAPPENS IS NOT "ATAGONIZING" THAT IS THE REALITY.

Speaking the reality of events again is not atagonizing. ITS CALLED REALITY.

I harken back to "if speaking knowing what to say and how to say it."
 
I'm not against that, but I think it's inappropriate to do it at a funeral, I think those policemen who turned their back were thinking of themselves and not the fallen policeman.

I agree with you on this point, as I agreed with Kobie earlier in this thread. The funeral is in honor of the deceased, and in support of their families.

All I'm saying is that I understand the officer's position on this, and have come to realize that it's their perception of the situation that counts far more so than mine, yours, or anyone else's not directly involved.
 
In certain situations, for the greater good, yes.
Hmmm interesting justification. Well when is the "greater good"?


You weren't familiar with the term 'blue flu', I was being helpful.
Well I didnt know what it was. But what does police having going on stirke have to going to De'Blaiso's speech a month ago?



You keep bringing this up. I never have. You have a fixation or something?
You said he somehow was a figure that lead to this attack and that the few hundred police were justified in turning their backs. Then you brought up his speech in early December in justification of these actions, yet in his speech he PRAISED the police...

No, what the mayor should have done was say what he wanted in such a way that the police wouldn't have found it objectionable, heck, isn't the mark of a really good politician to get you to support something that you don't like?
He praised the police. How is that "objectionable"?

What the mayor needs to do now is make peace and mend fences with the NYPD leaders in private through whatever means needed. The dangers to the city and the population demand that at this point due to his earlier statements.
Well he hasnt done anything..

What would you rather have? A supporting police force keeping the city and it's populace safe, working to improve relations with communities, or what is considered the truth for some small minority and the level of distrust and acrimony that you have now? What's more effective? What's better for city and it's residence?
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?


What's gonna happen when the MS13 gang in one of the burrows decides to take advantage of the situation, the strife in the NYPD ranks, the strife between NYPD and the major office and goes out and shoots a bunch of cops? That's more the calamity I was thinking about.
Why is their strife in the first place? The mayor did nothing wrong.....


That's only part of what I said. In full context it's ""Sometimes the greatest wisdom is know when not to speak, and if speaking knowing what to say and how to say it." It's going to be hard to have an honest conversation here when you selectively leave off so much of the context.
So he shouldnt of spoke???


I harken back to "if speaking knowing what to say and how to say it."
RESPECT MY AUTHORITAAHHH MR MAYOR!!!
 
I'll say right off, I think it was a low class thing to do.

BBhgHfe.img



Turning your back on and disrespecting the man who signs your paycheck is never a wise thing to do. :roll:

That gesture will accomplish little, if anything, for the NYPD.
 
From another thread. Hmm. Wonder if it's a copy cat killing. Anyway, particular to my posting here, another calamity.

You still have not explained what the mayor did wrong other than, "RESPECT THE NYPDS AUTHORITAHHHH!"
 
From the video footage that I saw, it wasn't a very few, I'd place it between 50 and 100 or so.

While I would agree wit you that a funeral isn't the right time and place for protest (unlike the Westboro idiots), I understand the LEOs position on this, and support that position.

What's the saddest to me is that a solemn time of a funeral, being there to honor a fallen fellow officer, there in support of that officer's family, the LEOs were put in a position where they felt that had to protest de Blasio.

We are seeming to forget that it was de Blasio's actions and words alone which has causing this tear in the relationship between the mayor and his police force.



In a city like New York City, with a population well over 8 million, that's a few. It's certainly not a large number. :roll:
 
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