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Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

  • Total voters
    49
reinoe said:
"Fantasizing about racist police around every corner". You've blown your credibility to hell and back.

You remain conspicuously silent on documented evidence of police deliberately targeting minorities and you've dodged documented evidence that the NYPD made up bull**** in areas of the city dominated by minorities in order to meet quotas. All just to make up a strawman to burn down. Yes, remaining silent on the issue of injustice is what cowards do best. Remain silent then, it's probably best to keep your ideas that enable racism to yourself.
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Easy to claim racism - it's what those with no credibility and no answers always do.

Why do blacks suffer disproportionately in NYC from Stop, Question and Frisk? Because blacks disproportionately commit crimes in NYC. You'd prefer to let criminals - black criminals in particular - roam free, unimpeded by those charged with the duty of reducing and preventing crime. I prefer to see criminals of all colours stopped.

And just as an aside, ever hear of the RIDE program to reduce drunk driving? Ever been stopped in a RIDE spot check? I have. But since I'm not a criminal and I'm not a drunk driver, I have no problem with police stopping me, questioning me about whether or not I've been drinking, and checking things out. Most law abiding citizens have no problem with it because it helps to keep the streets safe for us and helps catch criminals who choose to drive drunk and put the rest of us at risk on the road. And guess what? The RIDE checks are set up to stop cars leaving the entertainment district where bars and restaurants are. Why? Because that's where drunk drivers are likely to be.

Same principle of law enforcement at work under RIDE as there is under Stop, Question and Frisk. I'm sure drunk drivers are just as upset as black criminals are. I say too ****ing bad.
 
radcen said:
That's it? That's your beef? You have a hard on because the VP attended?

:roll:

Carry on.
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Nonsense. Check out my first post in this thread - it contains my feelings on the issue.

My response above is related to those who claim that the Mayor and the Vice-President attended for other than political reasons which is a crock.

You claimed Biden attended for altruistic reasons with no evidence to support that contention. I provided clear reasons why that's a crock. It's fine that you don't like it but it's your point that was totally shown to be a crock and your response is pathetic.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Easy to claim racism - it's what those with no credibility and no answers always do.

Why do blacks suffer disproportionately in NYC from Stop, Question and Frisk? Because blacks disproportionately commit crimes in NYC. You'd prefer to let criminals - black criminals in particular - roam free, unimpeded by those charged with the duty of reducing and preventing crime. I prefer to see criminals of all colours stopped.
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"Playing Chess In A Park, Putting their feet up on subway seats, not wearing a seatbelt". Such dangerous criminals. Yet, I bet if an equal number of cops were as aggressively patrolling Wall Street, Astoria, or Breezy point, then "crime rates" would increase. You seem to be blind to the documented fact that cops were ordered to make more citations in areas dominated by minorities. You're a coward for dodging this point and you're making every excuse in the conservative talking points playbook to do so.
 
CanadaJohn said:
You claimed Biden attended for altruistic reasons with no evidence to support that contention. I provided clear reasons why that's a crock. It's fine that you don't like it but it's your point that was totally shown to be a crock and your response is pathetic.
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I made no such claim. I challenge you to quote where I said, or implied, what Biden's motivation was.

I spelled out why and when a higher-than-local politician *should* attend, but I never said word one regarding Biden's personal motivation in this particular instance.
 
reinoe said:
"Playing Chess In A Park, Putting their feet up on subway seats, not wearing a seatbelt". Such dangerous criminals. Yet, I bet if an equal number of cops were as aggressively patrolling Wall Street, Astoria, or Breezy point, then "crime rates" would increase. You seem to be blind to the documented fact that cops were ordered to make more citations in areas dominated by minorities. You're a coward for dodging this point and you're making every excuse in the conservative talking points playbook to do so.
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Clearly, you fully support criminals and you want them to be undeterred in the conduct of their criminal lives. That's fine - you live "out west" and so aren't directly affected by black crime in many of America's largest cities. Those who are actually subjected to crime, specifically black crime, in America's largest cities overwhelmingly support the efforts of law enforcement officers to make their lives and their communities safer. And that includes the majority of law abiding black residents as well.

Here's current polling data - what have you got?

http://www.theroot.com/articles/cul...g_black_attitudes_toward_law_enforcement.html
 
radcen said:
I made no such claim. I challenge you to quote where I said, or implied, what Biden's motivation was.

I spelled out why and when a higher-than-local politician *should* attend, but I never said word one regarding Biden's personal motivation in this particular instance.
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It's pointless to continue the discussion if you're unwilling to accept the meaning of the words you post yourself. Your original post to me was pretty clear in its acceptance of Biden's attendance as being non-political and somehow of national importance. I believe it was representative of the Obama administration's desperate attempt at covering their asses.

In any event, have a good night and Happy New Year.
 
CanadaJohn said:
It's pointless to continue the discussion if you're unwilling to accept the meaning of the words you post yourself. Your original post to me was pretty clear in its acceptance of Biden's attendance as being non-political and somehow of national importance. I believe it was representative of the Obama administration's desperate attempt at covering their asses.

In any event, have a good night and Happy New Year.
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In other words, you cannot point out any wording of mine that says... or implies... I said what you claimed I said. And you're too proud to suck it up and admit it.

You are correct about one thing, it's pointless to continue. You have a good New Year, too.
 
X Factor said:
I didn't intend that as criticism. I just meant that we all bring our own pre conceived ideas into the things we analyze so it's not like anything any of us says is any kind of surprise. You condemning the cops actions here was equally as foreseeable as me defending them. That's all.
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You don't find it surprising that I would have criticized Ferguson protesters had they protested at the funeral as well? Or is that you don't actually believe that I would have criticized the Ferguson protesters in that situation?

I'd be curious about your reasoning in light of your full agreement with the Ferguson protestors.
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If there's no clear 'yes' or 'no' here, then I'm going to give a genuine answer.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Easy to claim racism - it's what those with no credibility and no answers always do.

Why do blacks suffer disproportionately in NYC from Stop, Question and Frisk? Because blacks disproportionately commit crimes in NYC.
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The percentage of Black people stopped greatly exceeded the percentage of Black criminals so that argument doesn't work. There's also the fact that, in the United States, we have a Constitution that protects people from racial discrimination so no matter how many racist White people like yourself want Black people to be treated like criminals everywhere they go, it's not legal to do so.
 
Uhhh yes... He is the Mayor.... But seriously! What the hell did he do!? Why is he being there, and speaking so controversial!? He did nothing wrong!
 
CanadaJohn said:
If one is to grant that a funeral is not the place for political statements, perhaps no politician who isn't an intimate friend of a police officer's family should ask to speak at such funerals. One has to wonder what special relationship Vice-President Biden had with this officer? What was Mayor De Blasio's non-political special relationship with this officer?

Nothing a politician does is seen other than as political in some form or another - period.
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Stay in Canada because you understand nothing about American customs and courtesies.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
The percentage of Black people stopped greatly exceeded the percentage of Black criminals so that argument doesn't work. There's also the fact that, in the United States, we have a Constitution that protects people from racial discrimination so no matter how many racist White people like yourself want Black people to be treated like criminals everywhere they go, it's not legal to do so.
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Scream racism from the rooftops all you want. Someone like you falsely calling me a racist has zero impact. You don't know me or anything about me. What remains a fact is that crime is disproportionately high in predominantly black neighbourhoods in NYC and so police presence in those communities is proportionately high. As a result, those blacks who live in predominantly black communities in NYC will have a higher incidence of contact with police patrolling the streets.

And if the police reduced or eliminated their presence in those communities, the first people to scream about it would be the Al Sharptons and people like you claiming that the racist police aren't protecting the communities because the residents are predominantly black.

I support law enforcement because it makes the streets and neighbourhoods safe for law abiding citizens like me and the vast majority of blacks in cities like NYC. You, on the other hand, with a giant chip on your shoulder, prefer to excuse and abet criminals all in some misguided need to cry racism at every turn.

So go ahead - keep calling me a racist - it's all you've got.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Thanks for the lesson in xenophobia. Well done.
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I don't fear, I merely tolerate their misunderstanding of customs and courtesies and correct them when they are wrong about their implications of what they believe is proper etiquette for Americans to practice, in your case, you're wrong, as per usual. But since this is a poll thread, people are permitted to have their opinions noted. It's a good thing that forums like these allow people to use pseudonyms, so their real identities aren't made public.
 
AJiveMan said:
I don't fear, I merely tolerate their misunderstanding of customs and courtesies and correct them when they are wrong about their implications of what they believe is proper etiquette for Americans to practice, in your case, you're wrong, as per usual. But since this is a poll thread, people are permitted to have their opinions noted. It's a good thing that forums like these allow people to use pseudonyms, so their real identities aren't made public.
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Hilarious
 
well, if he hadn't shown up for the funeral those same officers/critics would say:

"See, this proves the major does not care one flying fig about his police officers. Even when 2 are assassinated he would rather stay away to validate the protests against the police officers rather than showing his support for the police officers and the family of the 2 slain cops".

This is a no win situations for someone in a highly politicized function like a major is in the US. Even this office is at the mercy of the political wrangling of the conservative against liberal slug fest.
 
X Factor said:
Obviously he wasn't welcome. Wasn't he specifically requested to stay away from police officers funerals? Shouldn't he have respected that?

Thoughts?
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What is up with the vote count?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Whether or not they have valid grievances is not the issue. The issue is whether or not a funeral is the appropriate place to act on those grievances.
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Sometimes people believe they need to speak for those who no longer have the chance to. You should most certainly understand that.
 
CanadaJohn said:
What remains a fact is that crime is disproportionately high in predominantly black neighbourhoods in NYC and so police presence in those communities is proportionately high.
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No, that's not a fact. As I stated, the amount of Black people stopped by police under stop-and-frisk was disproportionately high. The percentage of stops far exceeded the percentage of crime committed by Black people.
 
ocean515 said:
Sometimes people believe they need to speak for those who no longer have the chance to. You should most certainly understand that.
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I think it's arrogant to presume that you know what the person who died would have wanted, particularly if you did not know that person well. I think his family members are the people who should be speaking for Ramos, if anybody should. Nobody else - let alone thousands of cops who didn't know him - should take that task for themselves. Surely you understand how entitled it is to use someone's funeral to make a political statement?
 
The possibility exists, however, that both slain officers would have agreed with the back-turning on de Blasio.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I think it's arrogant to presume that you know what the person who died would have wanted, particularly if you did not know that person well. I think his family members are the people who should be speaking for Ramos, if anybody should. Nobody else - let alone thousands of cops who didn't know him - should take that task for themselves. Surely you understand how entitled it is to use someone's funeral to make a political statement?
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If it's arrogant, why are YOU presuming yourself? It would seem you only support protest, no matter the venue, when the cause meets your agenda. Simply turning their back on the arrogant ass hat DeBlasio probably showed more respect than the Mayor deserved.
 
I can understanding him attending, but unless the family wanted him to speak (or any of the other politicians), then he should have just sat there. 10 minutes of speaking makes it more about him than the deceased.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I think it's arrogant to presume that you know what the person who died would have wanted, particularly if you did not know that person well. I think his family members are the people who should be speaking for Ramos, if anybody should. Nobody else - let alone thousands of cops who didn't know him - should take that task for themselves. Surely you understand how entitled it is to use someone's funeral to make a political statement?
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There's a thread here about a transgender person buried by her family as a male (upon her death of course, otherwise this is a whole different story) despite having lived as a woman for a number of years. Do you agree that in that case, only the family and nobody else's wishes should be followed? Also, that instance is being made highly political which, I do think is a little sad.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I can understanding him attending, but unless the family wanted him to speak (or any of the other politicians), then he should have just sat there. 10 minutes of speaking makes it more about him than the deceased.
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That's true, but de Blasio was between a rock and a hard place when it came to criticism of him. If he didn't attend those who are criticizing him attending would be criticizing him for not attending and paying his proper respects. Regardless of which way he went or what he did, it would be the same people defending him and the same people criticizing him.

His best option was exactly what you stated.
 
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