Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against Cuba

Μολὼν λαβέ · Dec 20, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

NIMBY said:
I heard a Republican named Rand Paul say the same thing as he slapped down Marco Rubio as an isolationist defending unsuccessful embargoes.

Rand Paul is about as significant as Obama.

NIMBY said:
With this new messaging war by the GOP on JFK, their war on the Pope for being an intermediary can't be far behind .

Wrong again. Nothing new here though. The war on Kennedy is from a Democrat, President Obama.

NIMBY said:
Rand Paul wins again in the GOP .

And according to Obama Kennedy is the loser.

RabidAlpaca · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064112872 said:
What about the embargo on Russia? Russia hasn't been hostile to the US, have they?

Isn't that hurting innocent Russians? Their economy is in the tank.

Doesn't President Obama have any, *wink, wink,* flexibility left he spoke about to the Russian president?

Our sanctions on Russia have only been effective because we had no sanctions when we first applied them. If we had embargoed Russia for 60 years, sanctioning them would have zero effect and thus wouldn't influence their behavior.

I don't think Kennedy ever intended the embargo of Cuba to last until the end of time. It was supposed to be a temporary response to a temporary problem. Is Russia still trying to sneak nukes into Cuba?

joko104 said:
When did it become wrong?

Probably when the USSR stopped trying to put nukes into Cuba, you know, 40+ years ago. Hilarious that none of the original reasons we embargoed Cuba still exist, but you think it should just continue on regardless.

Cephus · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064112817 said:
Are you referring to slavery?

I didn't say anything that might remotely resemble slavery, why do you ask?

Mycroft · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

joko104 said:
A majority of Americans and members of this forum believe the embargo against Cuba was always wrong and was a stupid, cruel and harmful policy.

Yet no one is identifying who did this terrible thing to Cubans and such great stupid evil by the United States. Should Democratic President John F Kennedy be retroactively publicly condemned for imposing the embargos (there were many embargo laws he put into effect) against Cuba? Should young Americans particularly know WHO did this to Castro and Cubans to understand political history and partisan history accurately?

I have to question your opening statement.

I've seen only one poll in DP lately on the topic and I don't think the results are quite the way you say they are. Do you have any polling information about the majority of Americans?

In any case, I decline to answer your poll because every choice...whether it begins with a yes or a no...has some additional qualifier that I don't adhere to. Why didn't you just have three choices...yes, no, no opinion? You would have still gotten more dumbass reasons in the posts that would follow than the few you came up with.

year2late · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

joko104 said:
A majority of Americans and members of this forum believe the embargo against Cuba was always wrong and was a stupid, cruel and harmful policy.

Yet no one is identifying who did this terrible thing to Cubans and such great stupid evil by the United States. Should Democratic President John F Kennedy be retroactively publicly condemned for imposing the embargos (there were many embargo laws he put into effect) against Cuba? Should young Americans particularly know WHO did this to Castro and Cubans to understand political history and partisan history accurately?

How are your poll choices an accurate representation of anything?:roll:

Hatuey · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Mycroft said:
I have to question your opening statement.

I've seen only one poll in DP lately on the topic and I don't think the results are quite the way you say they are. Do you have any polling information about the majority of Americans?

In any case, I decline to answer your poll because every choice...whether it begins with a yes or a no...has some additional qualifier that I don't adhere to. Why didn't you just have three choices...yes, no, no opinion? You would have still gotten more dumbass reasons in the posts that would follow than the few you came up with.

Cuba | Gallup Historical Trends

View attachment 67177589

Most Cuban-Americans Oppose Embargo, Poll Finds : The Two-Way : NPR

A new poll released on Tuesday shows a big shift in opinion by the Cuban-American community in South Florida: A majority (52 percent) of Cuban-Americans said the U.S. should end its embargo of Cuba.

"We are witnessing a clear demographic shift with younger and more recently arrived Cubans favoring a change in policy toward the island," said Professor Guillermo J. Grenier, one of the co-principal investigators of the Florida International University Cuba Poll, in a statement.

Just how significant is the swing? Back in 2011, 44 percent opposed the U.S. embargo of Cuba. In 1991, 87 percent of Cuban-Americans supported the embargo.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...ans-stick-to-the-laws-against-trade-with-cuba

And opposition to diplomatic relations with Cuba–that was downright fringe. Only 32 percent of Cuban-Americans still opposed diplomacy, and only 12 percent of the population younger than 30.

The collapse of support for an embargo made the positions of Cuban-Americans in Congress even more important. For the next two years, at least, any change to the laws mentioned by Ros-Lehtinen will have to be approved by a Republican Congress. Whatever they think, Cuban-Americans are still represented by Republicans (and New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez, a Democrat) who oppose Obama's move.

A majority of Americans are now opposed to embargoes on Cuba.

clownboy · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

What the heck is all this puppy love for Cuba? Who cares? Continue the embargo until they have something we need. Otherwise, let em sit and stew.

Mycroft · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Hatuey said:
Cuba | Gallup Historical Trends

View attachment 67177589

Most Cuban-Americans Oppose Embargo, Poll Finds : The Two-Way : NPR

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...ans-stick-to-the-laws-against-trade-with-cuba

A majority of Americans are now opposed to embargoes on Cuba.

Do I need to remind you what I asked to be substantiate?

joko104 said:
A majority of Americans and members of this forum believe the embargo against Cuba was always wrong and was a stupid, cruel and harmful policy.

I don't think your information backs up that statement at all.

pbrauer · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

clownboy said:
What the heck is all this puppy love for Cuba? Who cares? Continue the embargo until they have something we need. Otherwise, let em sit and stew.

There is no puppy love for Cuba, but the embargo for the last 54 years hasn't helped the Cuban people at all. So its important to try something different. There is nothing, I mean nothing wrong with setting up diplomatic relations.

Fiddytree · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Dumb poll.

President Kennedy deserves credit for instituting a fairly legitimate policy which may (or may not) have ended its usefulness after the early 1990s.

Kobie · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

clownboy said:
What the heck is all this puppy love for Cuba? Who cares? Continue the embargo until they have something we need. Otherwise, let em sit and stew.

For what purpose? Just for funsies?

joko104 · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Kobie said:
For what purpose? Just for funsies?

Can you give any benefit to Americans or the USA from this? Any?

OH, we have heard the response from the next generation Castro over Obama's unilateral mega billion dollar favor to the Castros.

A wave of insults and condemnations of the United States.

So Americans in Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands were trashed, created a doorway to another foreign drug cartel, declared the USA is fine with missiles to N. Korea and harboring terrorists and American cop killers, and financially saved an oppressive and adversarial military dictatorship ...

... in exchange for insults.

Great Americans-last foreign policy action by Emperor and American apologist Obama. With on elections ahead that matter to him, he can now fully express his condemnations of the USA worldwide and personal shame over being an American for which he will punish all Americans and throw piles of money at our enemies.

Kobie · Dec 21, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

joko104 said:
Can you give any benefit to Americans or the USA from this? Any?

OH, we have heard the response from the next generation Castro over Obama's unilateral mega billion dollar favor to the Castros.

A wave of insults and condemnations of the United States.

So Americans in Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands were trashed, created a doorway to another foreign drug cartel, declared the USA is fine with missiles to N. Korea and harboring terrorists and American cop killers, and financially saved an oppressive and adversarial military dictatorship ...

... in exchange for insults.

Great Americans-last foreign policy action by Emperor and American apologist Obama. With on elections ahead that matter to him, he can now fully express his condemnations of the USA worldwide and personal shame over being an American for which he will punish all Americans and throw piles of money at our enemies.

This is absolute gibberish.

shrubnose · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

joko104 said:
A majority of Americans and members of this forum believe the embargo against Cuba was always wrong and was a stupid, cruel and harmful policy.

Yet no one is identifying who did this terrible thing to Cubans and such great stupid evil by the United States.

Should Democratic President John F Kennedy be retroactively publicly condemned

Click to expand...

for imposing the embargos (there were many embargo laws he put into effect) against Cuba? Should young Americans particularly know WHO did this to Castro and Cubans to understand political history and partisan history accurately?

The man has been dead and buried for quite a while.

I doubt that condemning him will hurt his feelings.

Don't you have better things to waste time on? :roll:

ALiberalModerate · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

How the hell is Cuba our enemy any more? Thats is like saying that the gopher living in the neighbors backyard is my enemy. When the Cold War ended, Cuba became entirely insignificant to us as a threat. Thus there is no reason at all to continue the embargo and not have an embassy there. If we are not going to have an embassy in Cuba then we should pull out of China, Vietnam, and Venezuela as well. For crying out loud, we have an embassy in Zimbabwe. Would you rather live in Cuba or in Zimbabwe with the rampant corruption and human rights abuses there?

RabidAlpaca · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

clownboy said:
What the heck is all this puppy love for Cuba? Who cares? Continue the embargo until they have something we need. Otherwise, let em sit and stew.

Is that the way you want this country run? We just embargo people who don't agree with us for decades and decades until they "have something we need" to buy their freedom back?

The question you should be asking, wtf is is all this extreme hatred for Cuba and Cubans? Of all the evil in the world you pick them to single out and mess with? Jesus.

Kobie · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

RabidAlpaca said:
Is that the way you want this country run? We just embargo people who don't agree with us for decades and decades until they "have something we need" to buy their freedom back?

The question you should be asking, wtf is is all this extreme hatred for Cuba and Cubans? Of all the evil in the world you pick them to single out and mess with? Jesus.

That's how bullies operate.

AJiveMan · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Fenton said:
What was cruel about it ?

Cuba couldn't trade with the US , but could trade with other Nations .

How was this " cruel ??

Cuba's problems aren't related to the embargo. They have to do with the fact that that island Nation is run by Communist thug dictators.

They sure love American iron down there...

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...dr...0...1ac.1.60.img..0.12.7 26.GQrsnFqEdYk

Maybe the USA want's to rent or lease some land for military bases for jungle training, or for some missile bases.

Smeagol · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

joko104 said:
A majority of Americans and members of this forum believe the embargo against Cuba was always wrong and was a stupid, cruel and harmful policy.

Yet no one is identifying who did this terrible thing to Cubans and such great stupid evil by the United States. Should Democratic President John F Kennedy be retroactively publicly condemned for imposing the embargos (there were many embargo laws he put into effect) against Cuba? Should young Americans particularly know WHO did this to Castro and Cubans to understand political history and partisan history accurately?

At the time, it was possibly smart policy. We were in the middle of the Cold War, the USSR had just tried to make Cuba a base for nuclear ICMBs pointed at American cities right off our coast. At the time it could be argued it was a wise decision short of war intended to force change in Cuba by use of a temporary embargo.

Problem is it didn't work. I think this is due to the fact nobody but America joined in. If we'd gotten the rest of the world on board maybe things would have played out differently but Europe, Canada and the rest of the Americas didn't participate.

Personally, I don't like embargoes because they punish the wrong people, the innocent often powerless citizens of the targeted country. It was reported shortages in toilet paper and feminine hygiene products are common in Cuba because of the US embargo. Even the Cuban immigrant community who supported the embargo were its main violators in efforts to ease the effects of their own loved ones back in Cuba. I'm not sure if this is still the case but in the 1990s it was reported Cuba's number one industry was Cubans in America wiring money to the communist county.

Fast forward 50 years lifting the embargo gradually is probably the right thing to do.

Morality Games · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

joko104 said:
A majority of Americans and members of this forum believe the embargo against Cuba was always wrong and was a stupid, cruel and harmful policy.

Yet no one is identifying who did this terrible thing to Cubans and such great stupid evil by the United States. Should Democratic President John F Kennedy be retroactively publicly condemned for imposing the embargos (there were many embargo laws he put into effect) against Cuba? Should young Americans particularly know WHO did this to Castro and Cubans to understand political history and partisan history accurately?

Embargoing Cuba made sense in the context of the Cold War. But, the current leadership of Russia and China are far worse than the Castros, and we're developing our economic associations with them as hard as we can as fast as we can.

The entire reason why we've even kept up this policy was because both parties were attempting to appease an important demographic (Cuban exiles) in a swing state; it didn't make any kind of logical sense in light of the rest of our Cold War policy.

Fearandloathing · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

joko104 said:
A majority of Americans and members of this forum believe the embargo against Cuba was always wrong and was a stupid, cruel and harmful policy.

Yet no one is identifying who did this terrible thing to Cubans and such great stupid evil by the United States. Should Democratic President John F Kennedy be retroactively publicly condemned for imposing the embargos (there were many embargo laws he put into effect) against Cuba? Should young Americans particularly know WHO did this to Castro and Cubans to understand political history and partisan history accurately?

Sure, why not?

The US has been wallowing in it's recent history apportioning blame as an extension of the on-going "right-left" war for a few decades now? Why change? The nation has become completely stalemated on most important issues, why not stay that way and make a fight over a half century-old decision by a man which has been upheld by eight presidents?

I mean, it's not important to find a real solution to anything when you can blame each other for a few more decades

Smeagol · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Fearandloathing said:
Sure, why not?

The US has been wallowing in it's recent history apportioning blame as an extension of the on-going "right-left" war for a few decades now? Why change? The nation has become completely stalemated on most important issues, why not stay that way and make a fight over a half century-old decision by a man which has been upheld by eight presidents?

I mean, it's not important to find a real solution to anything when you can blame each other for a few more decades

Triple like!

Goodness gracious, what has America come to? We're at freakin' war and would rather define American political opponents as the enemy than the people trying to kill us. Back in the 1990s there was an essay written by a US military officer on why Middle Easterners lose wars. Most of it had to do with tribalism and us vs. them attitudes from within their own society. That's almost exactly what America has become today.

Why Arabs Lose Wars :: Middle East Quarterly

Fearandloathing · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Smeagol said:
Triple like!

Goodness gracious, what has America come to? We're at freakin' war and would rather define American political opponents as the enemy than the people trying to kill us. Back in the 1990s there was an essay written by a US military officer on why Middle Easterners lose wars. Most of it had to do with tribalism and us vs. them attitudes from within their own society. That's almost exactly what America has become today.

Why Arabs Lose Wars :: Middle East Quarterly

They call it tribalism, but is it any different that the growing divisions of left and right, the divisions between black, white and Hispanic...is any of that really very much different than Sunni's and Shia? Between Palestinian and Saudi, Kurd and whatever?

The war America is losing is from within.

Kobie · Dec 22, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

Fearandloathing said:
They call it tribalism, but is it any different that the growing divisions of left and right, the divisions between black, white and Hispanic...is any of that really very much different than Sunni's and Shia? Between Palestinian and Saudi, Kurd and whatever?

The war America is losing is from within.

It's staggeringly different.

German guy · Dec 23, 2014

Re: Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against

joko104 said:
A majority of Americans and members of this forum believe the embargo against Cuba was always wrong and was a stupid, cruel and harmful policy.

Yet no one is identifying who did this terrible thing to Cubans and such great stupid evil by the United States. Should Democratic President John F Kennedy be retroactively publicly condemned for imposing the embargos (there were many embargo laws he put into effect) against Cuba? Should young Americans particularly know WHO did this to Castro and Cubans to understand political history and partisan history accurately?

Nope. Back then, the embargo was a fair idea. Might have worked.

Today, we know it didn't. And it hasn't for decades. Time to end it; opening relations and flooding that communist paradise with decadent capitalist filth via the channels of trade and travel is likely going to have a better effect than the sanctions had.

On the other side... condemning politicians for their wrongdoings? Well, maybe we could start by publicly waterboarding Bush and Cheney then.

Should President John Kennedy be retroactively condemned for the embargo against Cuba

Should President Kennedy be condemned for the embargos against Cuba

Yes, people should know the Embargos were by Democrat Prez. Kennedy

No, this could damage Democrat JFK as heroic and perfect

No, no politician should ever be held to public scrutiny

No, Tea Party Republicans did it

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Engineer

Genius is where you find it.

IIJAFM

Rule of Two

Genius is where you find it.

Neocon Elitist

Pragmatist

Engineer

Paying To Play

How long is now?

How long is now?