Is Elizabeth Warren part Native American?

Hatuey · Dec 16, 2014

tres borrachos said:
Her legal name is Love. My legal name is the name my husband had when he married me. Now it's my legal name, too. It's what's on my social security card, drivers license, tax returns, house deed, and all that. Pretty cool how it works. I'm sadly still not Swedish though. You don't get to take your husband's ethnicity, too.

Of course, none of that has to do with Elizabeth Warren's ancestry.

Okie dokie, I'll repeat it too. The fact is that it is a decision which is based on her understanding/attachment to her ethnic identity. Likewise, Warren determining she was NA because of family lore is a sign of her attachment/understanding of her ethnic identity. Neither of those decisions call their integrity into question. This is hard for you to understand.

Hatuey · Dec 16, 2014

tres borrachos said:
You're the one who keeps insisting she only took her husband's name when she got married to hide from her ethnicity, not me.

Still making it up? Good, I don't expect any less from you when you've lost an argument.

cpwill · Dec 17, 2014

tres borrachos said:
He just thinks she took her husband's last name when she married him so she could hide from her blackness and be more white.

Yeah.

Because clearly she thinks that people will think she is white :roll:

If I were to get a random piece of paper signed Ludmya Bordeaux, I'd probably assume their family was either creole, or actually from the French/German Alsace/Lorraine border. Hatuey is usually a pretty cogent and organized thinker for the other side on issues, but this is the most strained, least-supported, most ridiculous argument I think I've ever seen him make.

cpwill · Dec 17, 2014

Hatuey said:
The fact is that it is a decision which is based on her understanding/attachment to her ethnic identity

That's a fascinating claim. Can you demonstrate it?

tres borrachos · Dec 17, 2014

cpwill said:
Yeah.

View attachment 67177402

Because clearly she thinks that people will think she is white :roll:

If I were to get a random piece of paper signed Ludmya Bordeaux, I'd probably assume their family was either creole, or actually from the French/German Alsace/Lorraine border. Hatuey is usually a pretty cogent and organized thinker for the other side on issues, but this is the most strained, least-supported, most ridiculous argument I think I've ever seen him make.

Hatuey has made some incredibly insightful posts on this board, and I have said as much when he does it. He's usually very astute, even when I disagree with his politics. But he's so off the rails on this it's concerning. I don't ever recall anyone saying that the reason a woman takes her husband's last name when she marries him is to distance herself from her own ethnicity.

However, he just keeps at it. It would be funny if it wasn't downright weird.

bubbabgone · Dec 17, 2014

cpwill said:
That's a fascinating claim. Can you demonstrate it?

tres borrachos said:
Hatuey has made some incredibly insightful posts on this board, and I have said as much when he does it. He's usually very astute, even when I disagree with his politics. But he's so off the rails on this it's concerning. I don't ever recall anyone saying that the reason a woman takes her husband's last name when she marries him is to distance herself from her own ethnicity.

However, he just keeps at it. It would be funny if it wasn't downright weird.

Maybe I should start several pages back but, well, I'm too lazy.
Am I to understand someone is trying to equate, analogize, draw a parallel, whatever, Warren's Cherokee claim with Love's name change by marriage suggesting (subtly) that neither were done for political reasons?
I sense that the point in that it would be an attempt to defend Liz who needs it while faking a defense of Love who doesn't.

tres borrachos · Dec 17, 2014

bubbabgone said:
Maybe I should start several pages back but, well, I'm too lazy.
Am I to understand someone is trying to equate, analogize, draw a parallel, whatever, Warren's Cherokee claim with Love's name change by marriage suggesting (subtly) that neither were done for political reasons?
I sense that the point in that it would be an attempt to defend Liz who needs it while faking a defense of Love who doesn't.

Yes. Hatuey is insisting that Mia Love took her husband's last name (Love) when she married him because she wanted to escape her ethnicity.

No, I'm not kidding. He's repeated the claim over and over. That's the only reason she did it. It doesn't matter that almost all women who marry do it as well. OH! And her using her nickname of "Mia" instead of her given name of "Ludmya" is also to escape her ethnicity.

You know, it makes her more white.

And somehow these nutty claims are supposed to have something to do with Elizabeth Warren. No clue why he thinks that, but he does.

bubbabgone · Dec 17, 2014

tres borrachos said:
Yes. Hatuey is insisting that Mia Love took her husband's last name (Love) when she married him because she wanted to escape her ethnicity.

No, I'm not kidding. He's repeated the claim over and over. That's the only reason she did it. It doesn't matter that almost all women who marry do it as well. OH!

And her using her nickname of "Mia" instead of her given name of "Ludmya" is also to escape her ethnicity.

Click to expand...

You know, it makes her more white.

And somehow these nutty claims are supposed to have something to do with Elizabeth Warren. No clue why he thinks that, but he does.

Freaky.

I just found out they call him Jeb because his name is John Ellis Bush.

tres borrachos · Dec 17, 2014

bubbabgone said:
Freaky.

I just found out they call him Jeb because his name is John Ellis Bush.

Jeb was obviously trying to distance himself from his ethnicity.

Moot · Dec 17, 2014

Cephus said:
Who gives a damn? Why does anyone's genetic past mean anything to who or what they are today?

The LDS church gives a damn. They've built up an entire industry around finding and recording human ancestry. It seems a lot of people like to know about their family history, where they came from and who they might be related to. Knowing ones own family genetic or medical history could also save lives.

Cephus · Dec 17, 2014

Moot said:
The LDS church gives a damn. They've built up an entire industry around finding and recording human ancestry. It seems a lot of people like to know about their family history, where they came from and who they might be related to. Knowing ones own family genetic or medical history could also save lives.

But none of that has anything whatsoever to do with Elizabeth Warren, she isn't a Mormon, she isn't researching her ancestry, none of this matters one bit.

Moot · Dec 17, 2014

Cephus said:
But none of that has anything whatsoever to do with Elizabeth Warren, she isn't a Mormon, she isn't researching her ancestry, none of this matters one bit.

Well, you did ask....."Who gives a damn? Why does anyone's genetic past mean anything to who or what they are today?"

Cephus · Dec 17, 2014

Moot said:
Well, you did ask....."Who gives a damn? Why does anyone's genetic past mean anything to who or what they are today?"

Because in the context of this thread, it doesn't and nobody ought to care. It won't make Elizabeth Warren a better candidate.

Jack Hays · Dec 17, 2014

Hatuey said:
Still lying Hays? You got called on your lies and then finally admitted you had no proof after posting links to support the claims you made over and over again. It's getting funny watching you weasel your way out of your ridiculous claims.

Such persistent unpleasantness would be off-putting if it were not for the entertainment value.

Hatuey · Dec 17, 2014

Jack Hays said:
Such persistent unpleasantness would be off-putting if it were not for the entertainment value.

Getting snarky? I would too if I'd been caught lying and making it up as I go.

Jack Hays · Dec 17, 2014

Hatuey said:
Getting snarky? I would too if I'd been caught lying and making it up as I go.

Not at all snarky. Just the plain truth. You have only discredited yourself here.

Hatuey · Dec 17, 2014

Jack Hays said:
Not at all snarky. Just the plain truth. You have only discredited yourself here.

Says the guy who has been making the claim that Warren benefited from her NA heritage since the beginning and then admitted he had no proof of it when pressed for evidence.

Jack Hays · Dec 17, 2014

Hatuey said:
Says the guy who has been making the claim that Warren benefited from her NA heritage since the beginning and then admitted he had no proof of it when pressed for evidence.

There was nothing to admit. I never said there was evidence. I voiced my belief. It remains my belief.

Hatuey · Dec 17, 2014

Jack Hays said:
There was nothing to admit. I never said there was evidence.

You made a claim without evidence. That's been pretty obvious. No need to keep repeating it.

I voiced my belief. It remains my belief.

Without any evidence to support it? How shocking.

Jack Hays · Dec 17, 2014

Hatuey said:
You made a claim without evidence. That's been pretty obvious. No need to keep repeating it.

Without any evidence to support it? How shocking.

In fact, I posted the links that make clear there's no conclusive evidence. Thank you for supporting my point.

Hatuey · Dec 17, 2014

Jack Hays said:
In fact, I posted the links that make clear there's no conclusive evidence.

Utter nonsense. Now you're claiming you posted links that make it clear that your claims had no evidence behind them? Laughable to say the least.

Jack Hays · Dec 17, 2014

Hatuey said:
Utter nonsense. Now you're claiming you posted links that make it clear that your claims had no evidence behind them? Laughable to say the least.

I'm sorry you are having trouble following the discussion. Here's a repeat of my #238. Please note the first sentence, bolded for your convenience.

It's not so simple. The odd thing is that the whole thing could be laid to rest with a simple DNA test for about $250. I did that to get a conclusive answer to a similar story in the lore of my family.

The fight over Elizabeth Warren's heritage, explained - The ...

www.washingtonpost.com/.../the-fight-over-elizabe...The Washington Post

Sep 27, 2012 - If you're just tuning in, here's a summary of the spat: Warren claims she has Native American ancestry. She's never substantiated her claim with ...

Did Elizabeth Warren check the Native American box when ...

Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis...elizabeth-warrens-clai...The Washington Post

Sep 28, 2012 - Undocumented claims of Native American ancestry, especially those based on family ... She signed her entries “Elizabeth Warren -- Cherokee.

Hatuey · Dec 17, 2014

Jack Hays said:
I'm sorry you are having trouble following the discussion. Here's a repeat of my #238. Please note the first sentence, bolded for your convenience.

It's not so simple. The odd thing is that the whole thing could be laid to rest with a simple DNA test for about $250. I did that to get a conclusive answer to a similar story in the lore of my family.

The fight over Elizabeth Warren's heritage, explained - The ...

Page Not Found - Debate Politics Forumselizabe...The Washington Post

Sep 27, 2012 - If you're just tuning in, here's a summary of the spat: Warren claims she has Native American ancestry. She's never substantiated her claim with ...

Did Elizabeth Warren check the Native American box when ...

Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis...elizabeth-warrens-clai...The Washington Post

Sep 28, 2012 - Undocumented claims of Native American ancestry, especially those based on family ... She signed her entries “Elizabeth Warren -- Cherokee.

I think it's you who has trouble understanding that Elizabeth Warren's claims being "undocumented", do not prove that you claimed that you had no proof behind your claims that she benefited from it. How ridiculous can you get Hays? Your assertions were destroyed the minute you couldn't provide proof that Elizabeth Warren benefited from her NA claims. Get over it and move on.

Jack Hays · Dec 17, 2014

Hatuey said:
I think it's you who has trouble understanding that Elizabeth Warren's claims being "undocumented", do not prove that you claimed that you had no proof behind your claims that she benefited from it. How ridiculous can you get Hays? Your assertions were destroyed the minute you couldn't provide proof that Elizabeth Warren benefited from her NA claims. Get over it and move on.

Sorry, but you have no point and never did. At no point in this discussion did I ever claim to put forward anything other than my personal belief. The debating point has already been conclusively demonstrated. The only thing keeping this exchange going is your irrational need to avoid conceding that you misunderstood the thread.

Hatuey · Dec 17, 2014

Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but you have no point and never did.

My point is that you made claims, and are now trying every single weasel tactic to distance yourself from those claims. You were asked to demonstrate that Warren had benefited from her claims (As you had asserted earlier in the thread). You couldn't. Now you're just trying to waste bandwidth by distancing yourself from you unsubstantiated claims. It's not working. :shrug:

Is Elizabeth Warren part Native American?

Is Elizabeth Warren part Native American?

Absolutely not -- part of her family denies it.

Absolutely -- part of her family says it's true.

How the hell would I know?

I don't see why this is so unbelievable.

Who cares?

No, seriously, this is the least important issue in the history of anything ever.

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