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Is Elizabeth Warren part Native American?

Is Elizabeth Warren part Native American?

  • Absolutely not -- part of her family denies it.

    Votes: 6 7.7%

  • Absolutely -- part of her family says it's true.

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • How the hell would I know?

    Votes: 21 26.9%

  • I don't see why this is so unbelievable.

    Votes: 6 7.7%

  • Who cares?

    Votes: 53 67.9%

  • No, seriously, this is the least important issue in the history of anything ever.

    Votes: 26 33.3%
  • Total voters
    78
The Mark said:
Why should that make me care?

Politicians spend 75% of their time arguing about pointless bull**** already, what's another point of bull?
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This is a political debate forum. This is a political question. If you don't care then don't participate.
 
Jack Hays said:
This is a political debate forum. This is a political question. If you don't care then don't participate.
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But I must participate to inform everyone of how little I care.

It is important that you realize I care so little.

Very important.

*angry noises*
 
Jack Hays said:
The 2012 denials were just attempts to deflect a threat to her campaign. They are inconsistent with the contemporaneous record of events.
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The evidence says she checked a box. Other evidence showed she asked her alleged heritage not to be used for the hiring process. Other evidence shows he had identified as "white"/

The only circling of the wagons is those of desperate people who fear a potential candidacy beyond the Senate.

This issue will just be another long form birth certificate type fiasco that clearly backfired on the republicans. I say go for it, make it a huge issue.:lamo
 
Hatuey said:
She wouldn't be the first person to state their beliefs as facts. Doesn't call into question their integrity. More importantly, this issue doesn't call her integrity into question anymore than Republicans changing name to seem less ethnic questions there. Piyush Jindal? Ludmya Love? Yeah, this is a non-issue for the most part. Try harder.



Nonsense. If she believed she was Native American because her family told her so, and stated it as fact, then "she knew" that she was wrong is nonsense. As far as Elizabeth Warren understood, her family and by extension her had NA roots dating back hundreds of years. That's no different than a person believing they're Scottish because their name is Smythe, only to later find out they're Irish. It's really not that big of a deal. Try harder.
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Bobby Jindal began calling himself "Bobby" when he was in grammar school. Many children who have ethnic names call themselves something different. My neighbor's son is named Vishak; his parents were raised in India. He and his parents started calling him Kenny when he was in Kindergarten. Does that mean they aren't trying to hide the fact that he's Indian?

Mia is a nickname of Ludmya. The name my friends call me is a portion of my given name as a nickname. Am I trying to hide my heritage?

And neither example has anything to do with Warren anyway. What do nicknames have to do with anything?
 
year2late said:
The evidence says she checked a box. Other evidence showed she asked her alleged heritage not to be used for the hiring process. Other evidence shows he had identified as "white"/

The only circling of the wagons is those of desperate people who fear a potential candidacy beyond the Senate.

This issue will just be another long form birth certificate type fiasco that clearly backfired on the republicans. I say go for it, make it a huge issue.:lamo
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The birth certificate fiasco backfired on Republicans? I'd say it backfired on Hillary Clinton. It was her supporters that first made the claim about Obama, not the Republicans. Do you think McCain & Romney both lost because of WND and the birthers?
 
year2late said:
The evidence says she checked a box. Other evidence showed she asked her alleged heritage not to be used for the hiring process. Other evidence shows he had identified as "white"/

The only circling of the wagons is those of desperate people who fear a potential candidacy beyond the Senate.

This issue will just be another long form birth certificate type fiasco that clearly backfired on the republicans. I say go for it, make it a huge issue.:lamo
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This will not be raised by Repubs for a long time. Why? Because they hope she becomes the Dem nominee. This threat of this story comes from the Hillary team, for whom it's a good fit to tarnish her populist credentials. If Warren were to become the Dem nominee, repubs would only have to cite the questions raised earlier by her fellow Dems.

She could easily lay this to rest with a simple DNA test (about $250).

Her minority status was highlighted by her university. Denials over a decade later are not credible.
 
Jack Hays said:
This will not be raised by Repubs for a long time. Why? Because they hope she becomes the Dem nominee. This threat of this story comes from the Hillary team, for whom it's a good fit to tarnish her populist credentials. If Warren were to become the Dem nominee, repubs would only have to cite the questions raised earlier by her fellow Dems.

She could easily lay this to rest with a simple DNA test (about $250).

Her minority status was highlighted by her university. Denials over a decade later are not credible.
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Maybe the Hillary birthers will solve the mystery of Warren once and for all when Warren runs against her.
 
tres borrachos said:
Bobby Jindal began calling himself "Bobby" when he was in grammar school.

Many children who have ethnic names call themselves something different. My neighbor's son is named Vishak; his parents were raised in India. He and his parents started calling him Kenny when he was in Kindergarten. Does that mean they aren't trying to hide the fact that he's Indian?

Mia is a nickname of Ludmya. The name my friends call me is a portion of my given name as a nickname. Am I trying to hide my heritage?

And neither example has anything to do with Warren anyway. What do nicknames have to do with anything?
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Why do complex points go over your head like this? It's like you don't really understand what is being stated and you focus on what is literally being written and not the importance of the statement within the context it was given. The point was that how a person addresses their ethnic origins doesn't mean jack when it comes to their integrity. Piyush Jindal whitening his name doesn't call into question his integrity. The comparison comes from the fact that all of these people addressed their ethnicities in ways that are questionable only to people who don't understand the finer points of racial identity. Those who make a big fuss about Warren's NA claims are no better than the people who keep screaming that Obama is a Kenyan citizen or made a fuss about McCain being born in Panama. Do you understand yet? If you don't, please start reading books on racial identity. I don't have the time to teach you why believing you're one thing, and then turning out to be another has been a pretty normal occurrence after the rise of industrialism and global economies. It's as normal as whitening your name so you can be accepted in Western societies like Piyush and Ludmya Bordeau did.
 
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tres borrachos said:
The birth certificate fiasco backfired on Republicans? I'd say it backfired on Hillary Clinton. It was her supporters that first made the claim about Obama, not the Republicans. Do you think McCain & Romney both lost because of WND and the birthers?
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I agree with Hillary, but doubling down on the birth certificate issue after Hillary left the race, clearly backfired on Republicans. Made them seem unhinged and off point.
 
Jack Hays said:
This will not be raised by Repubs for a long time. Why? Because they hope she becomes the Dem nominee. This threat of this story comes from the Hillary team, for whom it's a good fit to tarnish her populist credentials. If Warren were to become the Dem nominee, repubs would only have to cite the questions raised earlier by her fellow Dems.

She could easily lay this to rest with a simple DNA test (about $250).

Her minority status was highlighted by her university. Denials over a decade later are not credible.
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Who raised this issue now?

By the way, asking for a blood test makes you seem like you think it should be a big issue.

Never thought of getting a blood test to prove or disprove family lore. :roll:

But go ahead and keep it up.
 
Hatuey said:
Why do complex points go over your head like this? It's like you don't really understand what is being stated and you focus on what is literally being written and not the importance of the statement within the context it was given. The point was that how a person addresses their ethnic origins doesn't mean jack when it comes to their integrity. Piyush Jindal whitening his name doesn't call into question his integrity. The comparison comes from the fact that all of these people addressed their ethnicities in ways that are questionable only to people who don't understand the finer points of racial identity. Those who make a big fuss about Warren's NA claims are no better than the people who keep screaming that Obama is a Kenyan citizen or made a fuss about McCain being born in Panama. Do you understand yet? If you don't, please start reading books on racial identity. I don't have the time to teach you why believing you're one thing, and then turning out to be another has been a pretty normal occurrence after the rise of industrialism and global economies. It's as normal as whitening your name so you can be accepted in Western societies like Piyush and Ludmya Bordeau did.
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It's not so simple. The odd thing is that the whole thing could be laid to rest with a simple DNA test for about $250. I did that to get a conclusive answer to a similar story in the lore of my family.

[h=3]The fight over Elizabeth Warren's heritage, explained - The ...[/h]www.washingtonpost.com/.../the-fight-over-elizabe...The Washington Post


Sep 27, 2012 - If you're just tuning in, here's a summary of the spat: Warren claims she has Native American ancestry. She's never substantiated her claim with ...


[h=3]Did Elizabeth Warren check the Native American box when ...[/h]www.washingtonpost.com/...elizabeth-warrens-clai...The Washington Post


Sep 28, 2012 - Undocumented claims of Native American ancestry, especially those based on family ... She signed her entries “Elizabeth Warren -- Cherokee.
 
Jack Hays said:
It's not so simple. The odd thing is that the whole thing could be laid to rest with a simple DNA test for about $250. I did that to get a conclusive answer to a similar story in the lore of my family.
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That's great, I did it years ago. I thought I was part Scottish, and had identified as such. Found out I also had a few other groups in my genetic makeup. Does the fact that I identified as ethnically Scottish/Black and nothing else mean I was ashamed of whatever I am? No. Hell, to this day I identify as black because that's what society sees me as. I could make an effort to correct the situation, but I simply don't care enough about it. Besides, when I get stopped for driving a nice car, it's not because I look too Scottish for it. A lot of people don't research the claims of their families. Elizabeth Warren is one of them. Play more racial politics and see if this issue gets you anywhere. :shrug:
 
year2late said:
Who raised this issue now?

By the way, asking for a blood test makes you seem like you think it should be a big issue.

Never thought of getting a blood test to prove or disprove family lore. :roll:

But go ahead and keep it up.
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It is not a blood test. It is a cotton swab inside the cheek. This thread is the only place I've seen the Warren issue raised lately.
 
Hatuey said:
That's great, I did it years ago. I thought I was part Scottish, and had identified as such. Found out I also had a few other groups in my genetic makeup. Does the fact that I identified as ethnically Scottish/Black and nothing else mean I was ashamed of whatever I am? No. Hell, to this day I identify as black because that's what society sees me as. I could make an effort to correct the situation, but I simply don't care enough about it. Besides, when I get stopped for driving a nice car, it's not because I look too Scottish for it. A lot of people don't research the claims of their families. Elizabeth Warren is one of them. Play more racial politics and see if this issue gets you anywhere. :shrug:
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I don't think it's a matter of racial politics. It's an integrity issue.
 
Jack Hays said:
It is not a blood test. It is a cotton swab inside the cheek. This thread is the only place I've seen the Warren issue raised lately.
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Blood test versus swab od cheek? Seriously? What does it matter. It is family lore. Statements based on belief. If her belief turns out to based on inaccurate information passed down for generations, does that make her a liar?

Perhaps you should insist on her getting the long form ancestry trace.:lamo
 
Jack Hays said:
I don't think it's a matter of racial politics. It's an integrity issue.
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Bull****. It is a matter of racial politics or for the most part not understanding how people address their racial identity. Warren thought she was NA, she kept stating it, then was proven wrong (maybe, it's hard to believe that there is anybody in this country without any Native American in them). It doesn't put her integrity into question anymore than whitening one's name to fit in like Piyush Jindal.
 
year2late said:
Blood test versus swab od cheek? Seriously? What does it matter. It is family lore. Statements based on belief. If her belief turns out to based on inaccurate information passed down for generations, does that make her a liar?

Perhaps you should insist on her getting the long form ancestry trace.:lamo
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She benefited from the claim of Indian ancestry and now can't substantiate it.
 
If her DNA test proves not to show Native American heritage...the only integrity in play is that of the person/people generations back who falsely passed down the information.:roll:
 
year2late said:
Blood test versus swab od cheek? Seriously? What does it matter. It is family lore. Statements based on belief. If her belief turns out to based on inaccurate information passed down for generations, does that make her a liar?

Perhaps you should insist on her getting the long form ancestry trace.:lamo
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Yes. And the long ancestry trace isn't germane here. She knew what the requirements were for claiming ancestry on for the university. She doesn't meet those requirements. She knew this going in.
 
Hatuey said:
Bull****. It is a matter of racial politics or for the most part not understanding how people address their racial identity. Warren thought she was NA, she kept stating it, then was proven wrong (maybe, it's hard to believe that there is anybody in this country without any Native American in them). It doesn't put her integrity into question anymore than whitening one's name to fit in like Piyush Jindal.
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Most claims of Native American ancestry in the US are false. Claims based on family lore are especially dubious.
 
Hatuey said:
Why do complex points go over your head like this? It's like you don't really understand what is being stated and you focus on what is literally being written and not the importance of the statement within the context it was given. The point was that how a person addresses their ethnic origins doesn't mean jack when it comes to their integrity. Piyush Jindal whitening his name doesn't call into question his integrity. The comparison comes from the fact that all of these people addressed their ethnicities in ways that are questionable only to people who don't understand the finer points of racial identity. Those who make a big fuss about Warren's NA claims are no better than the people who keep screaming that Obama is a Kenyan citizen or made a fuss about McCain being born in Panama. Do you understand yet? If you don't, please start reading books on racial identity. I don't have the time to teach you why believing you're one thing, and then turning out to be another has been a pretty normal occurrence after the rise of industrialism and global economies. It's as normal as whitening your name so you can be accepted in Western societies like Piyush and Ludmya Bordeau did.
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Whitening their names? So that people would think Mia (a nickname of Ludmya) was white?

Why did it fly over your head that Jindal wanted an American name in America, not an Indian name in America? Like my neighbor's kid.

By the way, Sasha Obama's real name is Natasha. You think Obama wanted everyone to not think she was Russian when he bestowed her nickname on her?

And once again, the application of nicknames is as relevant to the Warren story as the color of my bedspread.
 
year2late said:
If her DNA test proves not to show Native American heritage...the only integrity in play is that of the person/people generations back who falsely passed down the information.:roll:
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No, when she is attesting that the info is correct, the onus is on her to make sure it's so. In this case, sooooo easy to check. Either she's on the rolls or she's not. The tools and knowledge for her to verify before she swore to it were there and easily used.
 
tres borrachos said:
Whitening their names? So that people would think Mia (a nickname of Ludmya) was white?

Why did it fly over your head that Jindal wanted an American name in America, not an Indian name in America? Like my neighbor's kid.

By the way, Sasha Obama's real name is Natasha. You think Obama wanted everyone to not think she was Russian when he bestowed her nickname on her?

And once again, the application of nicknames is as relevant to the Warren story as the color of my bedspread.
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Factoid: Sasha is a diminutive of Alexandra or Alexander.
 
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