Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

NIMBY said:

Out of 221 posts so far, you are the only person who has the lean of Libertarian.
I've also found you to be a nonpartisan in the past.

I find the lack of Libertarians incredulous since torture and government overreach in foreign affairs is the Rand Paul/Libertarian platform.
As you can see, the GOP and its TEA/Libertarian-Right allies are very disciplined on this issue.
They're keeping quiet to keep the peace.

The GOP slammed the DEMs in the election because they are winning the messaging war with their coheson.

However, cracks are emerging due to Obama's immigration move, too late as it was;
the release of this torture report which McConnell would not have done next year;
and a possible government shutdown being led by Rush Limbaugh--who should never be underestimated.

DEMs also have their fissures as we see with Sen. Warren criticizing the President on his Wall Street pick and the whole Trans-Pacific mess.
DEMs are torn on energy/enviro issues.
But most of all, DEMs do not have a National Messaging Apparatus while GOPs still do .

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Was this actually addressed to me or are you just interested in standing on a podium reciting partisan hackery?

I voted yes -- I understand the cost-benefit ratio, but if we're afraid that someone is going to get mad enough to kill us, what are we spending hundreds-and-hundreds of billions of dollars on? If some piss ant mother****er wants to pick a fight with the U.S., well, then f'n bring it. That's why we pay some of the finest damn people this planet has to offer to guard the walls and the perimeter, to look out for us when we're lazy, fat and tired. Do we succumb to the fear of terrorism and what Islamic fundamentalists want to do to us? Or do we rise to the occasion, "Yeah, we tortured some of your brethren. We'll do it again if we need to. What are you going to do about it? Do we have a problem, you and I?"

I suppose I can lend my Always Forward train-of-thought to being trained as a no-reverse shock troop. For victory to be achieved, our will power must not break before theirs. Is it strong to be afraid that words will anger our enemies? Why must we be conscious of their delicate sensibilities? THEY are our enemy, **** their sensibilities. If they've got a problem, this is my response:



Seriously. Don't be politically correct here fellas. Why give one ounce of a **** about our enemies delicate sensibilities? Aren't you pissed that supposedly a YouTube video caused our Benghazi diplomatic (among other personnel) compound to be attacked by angry Islamists? That they had gotten butthurt over the video and decided to go ape **** in response. Not releasing the report out of fear of that again is giving in to their demands. It is retreat, and I will not agree to it. Ever.

I voted "I'm not sure". On one hand it should be obvious that the release is going to cause a great deal of harm and invite a strong reaction from the middle east. Part of me thinks the report should be repressed. On the other hand, 2 things. First a report of this magnitude is impossible to repress and will leak out anyway with the same amount of harm and reaction if not more and Second, no country should treat it's prisoners differently than they want their own fighting men treated. We screwed the pooch and anything that keeps it from happening again is a good thing. I simply don't agree with "the ends justify the means" morality that allows torture just because.

upsideguy said:

Ah, the old "I see your evil, I raise you an evil" argument, as if that somehow makes Iraq less evil. It doesn't. I just means we repeat our mistakes.

Vietnam was an embarrassment of US history as well. At least it was not a pre-emeptive war. Then again, maybe it was.

I would also point out three things that kept the body count lower in Iraq: 1) most more reliance on mechanized weapons, including drones and cruise missles. 2) superior body armor and 3) the fact that most fighting was in cities, close to medical facilities as opposed to deep jungle warfare that required risky airlift transport to medical help.

Though the total dead may have been low, we had a ton injured (maimed) and of course, a ton crippled psychologically...

1 Million Civilians Dead, 37,000 American Soldiers Dead or Injured -- And We've Learned Nothing from Iraq Debacle | Alternet

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Mornin UG. :2wave: It's really not raising the hand move. As one must already have their Ante up to even play. The ideological.....of the division tactic, in order to win. Is wherein lies the major fault.

Yes it is an embarrassment as to how it played out and who did what. While it was going on.

This report should not be released. Kerry has seen the report. Why do you think he asked Feinstein to hold off. The report is nearly one sided. It only points out the bad. As well as the desperation by the Democrats to shame the CIA, Dick Cheney and Bush Junior. It is clearly being motivated by sheer gotcha politics and the desperation by the Democrats as they know the American people have turned from their policies.

Due to this report which, btw Team Bo and BO peep also worked on and backs this move. Our troops and Embassies have been put on heightened alert. Not just the Norm.

Should any American come under Attack and or be killed due to this Report. Then Feinstein and these Democrats should be taken to trial as traitors.

Bumping this up .....as Feinstein will release today. THEY SHOULD NOT release this report with what they have about the CIA and involving Children. This will not only open CIA, Intel and Military people open to attack.

What good will come out of this? Not to mention the Demos tried to put it out in August with the Names of the CIA ops. What does that tell you. It need to be redacted again!!!!!



What You Need to Know About the Senate's CIA Torture Report......

The Senate's Select Committee on Intelligence is expected to make public today a redacted version of the executive summary of its comprehensive investigation of the CIA’s detention and interrogation program. The comprehensive report has come to be known in shorthand as the “CIA Torture Report." The committee’s investigation began in 2009 and three years later morphed into a 6,300 page report with 35,000 footnotes. The CIA’s security concerns about releasing the full report resulted in a compromise earlier this year by the White House and the committee to release a redacted version of the executive summary that was 500 pages in length. The report is expected to provide details about the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques, including waterboarding, sleep deprivation and use of stress positions that human rights groups have described as torture. Concerns that the report’s contents could incite violence overseas have led the Obama administration to raise security precautions at U.S. embassies worldwide.

WHAT’S SCANDALOUS?

A secret 2004 CIA Inspector General report, made public in 2009, listed incidents early in the EIT program where CIA officers went beyond the authorized enhanced interrogation techniques. The report detailed how in some cases CIA officers used a power drill, mock executions and threats against children in efforts to get detainees to provide information.

The committee’s report is expected to expand on the previously reported details of the harsh interrogation methods, as well as provide new details on other incidents. The report to be released today reportedly says that the CIA misled Congress and the White House about how well the enhanced interrogation techniques were working. An official familiar with the report’s contents says that it concludes the opposite, that the enhanced interrogation techniques produced zero actionable intelligence. The report appeared to be ready for release this past August, but the CIA requested further redactions to protect the identities of CIA officers cited in the report. White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough became personally involved in talks with the committee to resolve the matter.....snip~

What You Need to Know About the Senate's CIA Torture Report - ABC News

Nice.....Let Feinstein and those Democrats on the Committee, start to swet. Any Americans killed or attacked because of this. It will be devastating to them come 2016.


US prepares for security risks from torture report.....


American embassies, military units and other U.S. interests are preparing for possible security threats related to the release of a report on the CIA's harsh interrogation techniques at secret overseas facilities after the 9/11 terror attacks.

"There are some indications that the release of the report could lead to a greater risk that is posed to U.S. facilities and individuals all around the world," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Monday. "The administration has taken the prudent steps to ensure that the proper security precautions are in place at U.S. facilities around the globe."

Army Col. Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman, said "there is certainly the possibility that the release of this report could cause unrest" and therefore combatant commands have been directed to take protective measures.....snip~

US prepares for security risks from torture report


Oh yeah, BO and team do have concerns.....huh?

MMC said:

Heya Jog. :2wave: Maybe, the Demos talking to some live witnesses might help too.

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Hi there. I would have hoped that they had done that for the report.

RabidAlpaca said:

This post lacks substance.

I know first hand that just because you're fighting monsters doesn't mean you have to become one. You can not quantify any kind of benefit we've received from torture. It's against basic human rights and international law, so those who are responsible should be held responsible.

It's that simple. If you torture a prisoner and deny him a trial, don't act surprised when everyone thinks you're an asshole. Americans have spoken and they don't want torture done in their name. If you'd like the program to be restarted write your congressman.

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Your post lacks credibility. Perhaps you could strive for some in the future.

But thanks for your opinion. Perhaps you can work on accuracy in your posts, a splash of credibility might be refreshing.

Declan said:

I did not authorize the torture and I think those that did should be held accountable. I believe in law and democracy. You only believe in the GOP apparently.

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In the days after the attacks of 9-11, you would be hard-pressed to find very many citizens of this country who didn't want to use every means necessary to stop further attacks and destroy the enemy...no matter what party or political ideology they held.

joG said:

Hi there. I would have hoped that they had done that for the report.

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They didn't. But they were going to name the CIA Ops. There is no reason to release this report now. They could release it in another decade. We still have a War going on with the Terrorists. These were AQ terrorists. They are still the enemy.

They are already engaged in activities wherein they are going after more Americans and our Allies.....they don't need to know how much more concerned we are. This will just feed them more propaganda.

Take a look at what I just put up.....Hayden has been really playing defense with the matter. He should go after Feinstein directly.....and talk about her time on that chair and what she has dealt with long before Bush and Cheney came along.

upsideguy said:

The outrage will not be about the actions of the Dems, who are merely reporting the news; it will be about the actions of the Cons, who made the news.

Feel free to assign the the blame where it belongs. It ain't with the messenger.

The truth will set you free!

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Actually Nancy Pelosie and the House Democrats were well briefed by the CIA

Remember ?

WCH said:

In the days after the attacks of 9-11, you would be hard-pressed to find very many citizens of this country who didn't want to use every means necessary to stop further attacks and destroy the enemy...no matter what party or political ideology they held.

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Mornin' WCH. Did you know Clapper signed off on this? Feinstein and the Demos. are using that as one excuse. Bush Junior sounded off on this. About time he step out and start taking it to BO peep and the Democrats.




The report appears to be “way off-base,” Bush said in an interview Dec. 7 on CNN’s “State of the Union.” .....

“We’re fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA serving on our behalf,” Bush said. “These are patriots. And whatever the report says, if it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is way off base.” Others who are part of the campaign include Bush’s former CIA directors George Tenet and Michael Hayden.

Opponents of releasing the report also have created a website, CIASavedLives.com, where they plan to publish declassified documents, opinion pieces and media reports to rebut the Senate Democrats’ report. The site is being curated by William Harlow, Tenet’s former spokesman at the CIA.

Republicans and former Bush administration officials who ran the program condemned the report in advance as a biased attempt to rewrite history. They say the interrogations produced significant intelligence that helped capture terrorists and protect the country. “Information from the detainees was absolutely crucial to us understanding al-Qaeda and helping disturb, disrupt, dismantle and, in many cases, destroy al-Qaeda networks,” said Charles Allen, who managed the intelligence community’s collection programs from 1998 to 2005. “It’s hard for people in 2014 to understand how the world fell in on top of the” CIA after the 2001 attacks, said Allen, a principal with the Chertoff Group, a risk-management advisory firm. “There was no wide-scale abuse of any of the interrogation authorities, and CIA officers simply do not lie to the Congress.” .....snip~

CIA Torture Report Set for Senate Release Over Bush Objections - Bloomberg Politics

MMC said:

They didn't. But they were going to name the CIA Ops. There is no reason to release this report now. They could release it in another decade. We still have a War going on with the Terrorists. These were AQ terrorists. They are still the enemy.

They are already engaged in activities wherein they are going after more Americans and our Allies.....they don't need to know how much more concerned we are. This will just feed them more propaganda.

Take a look at what I just put up.....Hayden has been really playing defense with the matter. He should go after Feinstein directly.....and talk about her time on that chair and what she has dealt with long before Bush and Cheney came along.

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While I do not think that the names of the people involved need be public, I do think it would be good to know exactly what happened. If, you see, the only the methods used were the ones okayed by the legal counsel, then there is no real problem. I read those documents and cannot see the procedures to be torture except. This should be demonstrated and explained.

If there was systematic infringement, then we have a problem and must clear it up. We cannot have agencies and Forces doing things that are forbidden by the political leadership. We also can not tolerate suspicion to linger that the leadership allowed torture to be used against the law. To allow this is highly destructive and if left standing as a precedent endangers us as citizens.

This is not exactly a revelation.

The idea that extremists will suddenly be galvanized by a no doubt heavily redacted summary of a bureaucratic report confirming facts that everyone already knows is beyond ridiculous.

joG said:

While I do not think that the names of the people involved need be public, I do think it would be good to know exactly what happened. If, you see, the only the methods used were the ones okayed by the legal counsel, then there is no real problem. I read those documents and cannot see the procedures to be torture except. This should be demonstrated and explained.

If there was systematic infringement, then we have a problem and must clear it up. We cannot have agencies and Forces doing things that are forbidden by the political leadership. We also can not tolerate suspicion to linger that the leadership allowed torture to be used against the law. To allow this is highly destructive and if left standing as a precedent endangers us as citizens.

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This is from the Philippines, an Ally. Already it has begun and the report isn't out. Yet someone has been talking from Team BO.....huh? This will cost us contacts and moles, will jeopardize our allies who are conducting business. All while BO and the Demos want to talk about our values. Note how the terminology is changed for those overseas. The Term Terrorists, is not and will not be used. Overseas they will use the term Militants. Not unlawful combatants even.


CIA sexual threats, 'torture' in senate report.....


The Senate Intelligence Committee prepared to release a report on the CIA's anti-terrorism tactics on Tuesday and U.S. officials moved to shore up security at American facilities around the world as a precaution. The report will include graphic details about sexual threats and other harsh interrogation techniques the CIA meted out to captured militants in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, sources familiar with the document said on Monday.

The report, which Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein said would be released on Tuesday, describes how al Qaeda operative Abdel Rahman al Nashiri, suspected mastermind of the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, was threatened with a buzzing power drill, the sources said. The drill was never actually used on him. It documents how at least one detainee was sexually threatened with a broomstick, the sources said.

"We are concerned that this release could endanger the lives of Americans overseas, jeopardize U.S. relations with foreign partners, potentially incite violence, create political problems for our allies, and be used as a recruitment tool for our enemies," Senators Marco Rubio and Jim Risch said in a statement on Monday.....snip~

CIA sexual threats, 'torture' in senate report - 9News


OMG.....



Terrorists were threatened and even with a broomstick. One can see how the tickle feather and the baby talk could have been used as psychological cruelty.

WCH said:

In the days after the attacks of 9-11, you would be hard-pressed to find very many citizens of this country who didn't want to use every means necessary to stop further attacks and destroy the enemy...no matter what party or political ideology they held.

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That would be the "patriots" that GWB was referring to yesterday? Oh wait, he was talking about the torturers...

MMC said:

Mornin' WCH. Did you know Clapper signed off on this? Feinstein and the Demos. are using that as one excuse. Bush Junior sounded off on this. About time he step out and start taking it to BO peep and the Democrats.




The report appears to be “way off-base,” Bush said in an interview Dec. 7 on CNN’s “State of the Union.” .....

“We’re fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA serving on our behalf,” Bush said. “These are patriots. And whatever the report says, if it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is way off base.” Others who are part of the campaign include Bush’s former CIA directors George Tenet and Michael Hayden.

Opponents of releasing the report also have created a website, CIASavedLives.com, where they plan to publish declassified documents, opinion pieces and media reports to rebut the Senate Democrats’ report. The site is being curated by William Harlow, Tenet’s former spokesman at the CIA.

Republicans and former Bush administration officials who ran the program condemned the report in advance as a biased attempt to rewrite history. They say the interrogations produced significant intelligence that helped capture terrorists and protect the country. “Information from the detainees was absolutely crucial to us understanding al-Qaeda and helping disturb, disrupt, dismantle and, in many cases, destroy al-Qaeda networks,” said Charles Allen, who managed the intelligence community’s collection programs from 1998 to 2005. “It’s hard for people in 2014 to understand how the world fell in on top of the” CIA after the 2001 attacks, said Allen, a principal with the Chertoff Group, a risk-management advisory firm. “There was no wide-scale abuse of any of the interrogation authorities, and CIA officers simply do not lie to the Congress.” .....snip~

CIA Torture Report Set for Senate Release Over Bush Objections - Bloomberg Politics

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No one had a problem with the WOT or torture until it became a political liability or could be seen as a lever for someone's agenda.

This goes back to my original contention that all of this was nothing more than an elitist power grab.

Manc Skipper said:

That would be the "patriots" that GWB was referring to yesterday? Oh wait, he was talking about the torturers...

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Do you really believe anything of this will stop "advanced interrogation techniques" used by the PTBs?

Of course it won't...never has.

If you want to get a job done, don't rely on a naive pacifist to do it.

Serenity said:

This is not exactly a revelation.

The idea that extremists will suddenly be galvanized by a no doubt heavily redacted summary of a bureaucratic report confirming facts that everyone already knows is beyond ridiculous.

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Mornin' Serenity. Did you know about the use of threats with Children? What do you think it will cause those who sided with and helped to capture some of these people? What about those who are Intel now and working out in the field not knowing if they have just been compromised?

WCH said:

No one had a problem with the WOT or torture until it became a political liability or could be seen as a lever for someone's agenda.

This goes back to my original contention that all of this was nothing more than an elitist power grab.

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Some of this is about the Demos saving face with BO peep who has a collapsed Presidency.....while going back to their Mantra of Buuuuuuush!

Feinstein knows she is losing that Chair.....and the Repub taking it should let the Demos know to pick some new members as none.....that's none now, will be returning to this committee.

MMC said:

Some of this is about the Demos saving face with BO peep who has a collapsed Presidency.....while going back to their Mantra of Buuuuuuush!

Feinstein knows she is losing that Chair.....and the Repub taking it should let the Demos know to pick some new members as none.....that's none now, will be returning to this committee.

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Politics as usual.

WCH said:

Politics as usual.

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Correction.....Democrat Politics. Where Intentions matter more than results.

MMC said:

Correction.....Democrat Politics. Where Intentions matter more than results.

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It's such white-washed window dressing though. None of these people care about us.

Flashback:

When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool!!!

I don't see the benefit of scratching this scab, yet once again, and making it bleed in public, yet once again, especially so if it places our embassies and our overseas personnel and tourists in any sort of risk of increased terrorist activities.

Complaints about various House investigative committees foolishly spending public monies have been all over this board. This one sided reports that the Democrats insist on spent $40M. Do the same people condemn this foolish expenditure of public monies? So spending public monies in pursuit of one sided political advantage is hardly as one sided as many want everyone to believe.

One thing that seems to be an odd coincidence is that Gruber is testifying before congress today probably about his comments that have recently gone viral on the Internet. No idea if it's connected or not, but the timing of the release of this torture report does seem almost planned, somehow. Of is there yet another news Obama scandal yet waiting in the wings?