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Jack Bauer is my hero.
There were "deaths" associated with this torture and this report allegedly acknowledges that. Ergo, what you say is either from lack of information or ignorance or lying. I can't tell which. I am, like beaudreaux, a graduate of E & E, but it's not the same as this report will acknowledge. Why do you think they would be fightning it if it was just about lightweight torture. Ask yourself why the CIA had these people tortured at "black sites" in foreign countries, if it is so harmless?
Apparently, according to some of us, the answer is yes.
Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.
Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.
The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.
What say ye?
A good day to you CJ. I am most certainly painting with a broader brush in my statement than I would apply if held to specifics. I am always suspect of unaccountable government power, and that would apply to the military as well. However, for clarification, "leave it to experts" to me include considerations for accountability, propriety, and other reasonable/rational considerations.
I think there is a fine line between the need to know, and the need to not know.
What I do know is the line facing the need to know usually ends up being a few steps behind where we end up standing. IMO, more effect can be generated from what our detractors think we will do, than what they learn we will do.
"Maher Arar (Arabic: ماهر عرار) (born 1970) is a telecommunications engineer with dual Syrian and Canadian citizenship who has resided in Canada since 1987. Arar's story is frequently referred to as "extraordinary rendition" but the US government insisted it was a case of deportation.[1][2][3][4][5][6]
Arar was detained during a layover at John F. Kennedy International Airport in September 2002 on his way home to Canada from a family vacation in Tunis.[6] He was held without charges in solitary confinement in the United States for nearly two weeks, questioned, and denied meaningful access to a lawyer.[6] The US government suspected him of being a member of Al Qaeda and deported him, not to Canada, his current home and the passport on which he was travelling, but to Syria, even though its government is known to use torture.[7] He was detained in Syria for almost a year, during which time he was tortured, according to the findings of a commission of inquiry ordered by the Canadian government, until his release to Canada. The Syrian government later stated that Arar was "completely innocent."[8][9] A Canadian commission publicly cleared Arar of any links to terrorism, and the government of Canada later settled out of court with Arar. He received C$10.5 million and Prime Minister Stephen Harper formally apologized to Arar for Canada's role in his "terrible ordeal"..."
Now you can't claim ignorance.
Yes, it does.
I saw a news blurb yesterday that a couple of detainees were being released after 12 years.
I've heard for years that Guantanamo holds the worst of the worst terrorists.
These alleged terrorists were held, never charged then released after TWELVE YEARS.
And that's what you think this is about? Those few times that a literal bomb was ticking and they waterboarded a deactivation code out of him? Come on.
They use torture because they find it convenient and have zero respect for basic human rights.
Yeah, I think China just pays the monetary price, no matter how high.That's a good question. I don't really know how China does it. Perhaps projecting a message that you don't want to mess with them because they don't care about human rights, and perhaps also they don't have a problem selling weapons?
Too many of our allies in the oil consuming nations, let America do the heavy lifting.....China included.I do know we have allies who depend on ME oil, and we aren't going to let that supply be dominated by lunatics. IMO, that's just never going to happen. The modern world is not going to starve while respecting the boarders of another country. Never happened in human history.
Every act of torture we comit undermines our position on the world stage.
But how pure are those values if we comiting acts of torture that dehumanise its victims?
Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.
Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.
The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.
What say ye?
I generally agree if the expertise we're talking about is that held by those in the military and not those in the political realm that try to guide/rule them. More and more it seems, the political side is getting too involved in the operational side of the military, particularly in the new reality of our "war on terrorism". Because of that, because Obama as an example seems to be knee deep in micromanaging the military, according to the last three Defense Secretaries, I'd be in favour of all the politics being totally transparent and out in the open. This is why I would favour disclosing the "political" investigations, from both sides of the aisle, and letting the average citizen see what's going on. No matter which side is doing the meddling, the public should know.
As for what the military and associated agencies do in practice, I'm far less interested in knowing. War is ugly and not for the timid or weak of stomach. If we're going to be engaged in war, I'm all for letting those with the expertise in waging war do what needs to be done - as you say, get results. It's the politics I'm concerned about.
That Need 2 Know Basis. So to speak.
Yeah, I think China just pays the monetary price, no matter how high.
I would also opine that our endless quest to keep oil supplies moving is only marginally influenced by our human rights concerns.
Too many of our allies in the oil consuming nations, let America do the heavy lifting.....China included.
Military excursions are so costly, in blood and treasure , it would be cheaper for the USA to pay the higher price per bbl. that MIGHT result from our non-intervention.
Absolutely not. There is no reason to reignite the issue at such an important time for the United States on the world stage. .
I voted no. The report should absolutely be available to those with oversight authority in government or others with a need to know and no part of it should be buried from scrutiny. But, I have been listening to people in a position to know--both left and right--who are concerned that a release of the report to the mass media would put our allies and our own agents in the field at high risk as well as generate more destructive civil chaos among those just itching for an excuse to participate in such destructive civil chaos. The objectionable practices cited in the report ceased several years before the end of the Bush administration and there is no good reason to put people who had no part in any of that at higher risk just to embarrass somebody now.
Well, thank goodness an objective mind has solved the case.
My turn. I think they have remarkable respect for human rights and use whatever means necessary to ensure people are protected from those who they think seek to eliminate their right to exist in the greatest number possible.
Heya AO.That is the other concern. Those in Intel and contacts with networks that will have attempts upon their lives. That are not our people but those from other countries.
Which I am sure most are aware of each other that are out in that game.
Right now, a stable ME is not the case. It will become stable, one way or the other. IS and other organizations are going to learn the world will only tolerate so much. Their moment in the Sun is going to be over soon.
Which is gov't code for... "We'll do whatever we want, whether you like it or not."
Q: When will the right moment, when America is not on the world stage occur?
A: Never.
I think ISIS is/was an overblown threat.
Whatever happened to those refugees on that mountain, awaiting certain death, anyhow?
Yeah, they're a nasty group---one of many in the ME---what with all their beheadings, but they're also Assad's implacable foe.
The ME is a bad neighborhood, best to avoid it.
They have spread to Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, they have had Sudan and Benghazi Pledging support and giving them whole cities.
Libya has 3 of the major Terrorist players out there.....all able to move Westward at anytime they choose. How is this threat overblown?