• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

Should The Torture Report be Released Publicly?

  • Total voters
    90
MMC said:
Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.

Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.

The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.

What say ye?
Click to expand...

Yes, but it should be retitled:

Torturing the Truth, A Report on US Interrogation by Demokrats
 
disneydude said:
Like I said....I played along with your little game, albeit a flawed one in reality. If torturing people actually saved any lives it wouldn't be flawed
(show us any evidence that shoving hummus up someone's ass saves lives)....nevertheless, I would not bankrupt the integrity and morality of this country by engaging in that kind of vile behavior.
Click to expand...

The CIA says it has saved lives.....their OPS and their Staff. Military Intel people says it saves lives. So that isn't even the question despite you looking at a few cases out of hundreds that didn't produce anything. Even your Demos can't say lives weren't saved.

Oh and you didn't play any game. Now lets see you put your money where your mouth is. Where YOUR Morality check, that you Try and Preach.....STANDS.

Now there is no other choice.....you either save the peoples lives by torturing the terrorist. Or you let all those people die. Which will YOU do?
 
MMC said:
Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.

Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.

The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.

What say ye?
Click to expand...

The world has known we've been doing it and we're the only ones that haven't been facing it until now. I think that one of the best things that we can do is make a big deal of prosecuting this thing. Noting will change really; it'll all just go further under ground. But from at least WWII up until today we've been doing what we thought we had to do; interesting that it surfaces now though... To my mind, anybody who believes that our interests are better than that is either stupid or lying.

I don't think it will ignite anything that wasn't going to catch fire anyway, so as to our future, it'll just be business as usual. But heads are going to have to roll and Dick Cheney's should be thew first. Unless big people go down none of it will add up to a hill of beans and we'll just look more like hypocrites.
 
MMC said:
The CIA says it has saved lives.....their OPS and their Staff. Military Intel people says it saves lives. So that isn't even the question despite you looking at a few cases out of hundreds that didn't produce anything. Even your Demos can't say lives weren't saved.

Oh and you didn't play any game. Now lets see you put your money where your mouth is. Where YOUR Morality check, that you Try and Preach.....STANDS.

Now there is no other choice.....you either save the peoples lives by torturing the terrorist. Or you let all those people die. Which will YOU do?
Click to expand...

As I have already said twice....I would not sell the integrity and morality of this country out to save lives. I'm sorry that people will die, but saving their lives at the expense of destroying the country is too high a price to pay.

Oh...and sorry....but a few self-serving statements from people who want to justify their actions stands counter to the vast amount of evidence that dispute the claim that torturing people saves lives.
 
disneydude said:
As I have already said twice....I would not sell the integrity and morality of this country out to save lives. I'm sorry that people will die, but saving their lives at the expense of destroying the country is too high a price to pay.

Oh...and sorry....but a few self-serving statements from people who want to justify their actions stands counter to the vast amount of evidence that dispute the claim that torturing people saves lives.
Click to expand...



Then that's where you stand.....You would let a great many people die! So much for preaching about morality and walking in that good light.

What evidence? A one sided report that doesn't have any recommendation nor does it change any policy? Then theDemos have a failed Dept of Justice investigation who went a whole lot farther than this report did.

Here is what the Demos got.....Nothing!

Well one thing.....the backlash coming their way. :lol:
 
MMC said:
Then that's where you stand.....You would let a great many people die! So much for preaching about morality and walking in that good light.

What evidence? A one sided report that doesn't have any recommendation nor does it change any policy? Then theDemos have a failed Dept of Justice investigation who went a whole lot farther than this report did.

Here is what the Demos got.....Nothing!

Well one thing.....the backlash coming their way. :lol:
Click to expand...

It's not that I don't see your point clearly. Regarding that, the torture admininstration deserves its' day in Court to present its' justifications and the one you are postulating will likely lead the list. Do you support that prosecution to give these torturors their day in Court and an opportunity to make your argument to a jury?
 
DaveFagan said:
It's not that I don't see your point clearly. Regarding that, the torture admininstration deserves its' day in Court to present its' justifications and the one you are postulating will likely lead the list. Do you support that prosecution to give these torturors their day in Court and an opportunity to make your argument to a jury?
Click to expand...

Why would there be a Day of Court. Holder couldn't bring any criminal charges. What can a Prosecutor try that is legal by law?

B4baCjcCIAAzSLw.jpg



If for some reason it went to court.....I wouldn't have any trouble with a Jury's decision.


What did this accomplish? It may fire up the lefty base and sate ideologues' political bloodlust after a brutal election, but this issue isn't a major advantage to posturing Democrats. Why? Americans overwhelmingly believe that "torture" is sometimes justified:

torture2.png


http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...ce-democrats-play-politics-smear-cia-n1929813
 
For MMC

I rest my case. These guys and girls deserve their day in Court to exonerate themselves or wiggle themselves deeper into their morass of whale crap. All those CIA guys are ones that would be indicted and does that mean they want to make their case in a compliant media that they may control. No, my friend, they deserve judgement and only a Court of Law can do that.
 
DaveFagan said:
For MMC

I rest my case. These guys and girls deserve their day in Court to exonerate themselves or wiggle themselves deeper into their morass of whale crap. All those CIA guys are ones that would be indicted and does that mean they want to make their case in a compliant media that they may control. No, my friend, they deserve judgement and only a Court of Law can do that.
Click to expand...

Indicted for what DF?

Do our Intel people carry a License to Kill?
 
MMC said:
Indicted for what DF?

Do our Intel people carry a License to Kill?
Click to expand...

Well, I'm pretty sure the CIA operates the drone program and they do lots of killing, but they have always denied that they "TORTURED" anyone. I think the chickens are coming home to roost. I think they should all buy hats or they're gonna have the hairy end covered in chicken crap. That'd be those six former directors of which you refer.
 
DaveFagan said:
Well, I'm pretty sure the CIA operates the drone program and they do lots of killing, but they have always denied that they "TORTURED" anyone. I think the chickens are coming home to roost. I think they should all buy hats or they're gonna have the hairy end covered in chicken crap. That'd be those six former directors of which you refer.
Click to expand...

The point is they already have the license to kill.


John Schindler @20committee

I know v senior Western intel types who collaborated w/IC on renditions, etc. They are beyond furious today.


John Schindler @20committee

Best email so far: "We will not forget this. US(G) betrayed us. We know who is responsible & we will remember." (top NATO intel official).....snip~


Seems, some of our allies are not to happy.
 
twixie1 said:
Beheadings..in Northern Ireland..when did this happen?

Beheadings in Kosovo??

Which was carried out by the Jihadists..
Not Christians..
Click to expand...

Not beheadings literally, but recent examples of Christian religious based violence. In the case of Northern Ireland Christian on Christian.

You're right not Kosovo. Bosnia. Specifically the "ethnic cleansing" of the early 90s.
 
MMC said:
Then that's where you stand.....You would let a great many people die! So much for preaching about morality and walking in that good light.

What evidence? A one sided report that doesn't have any recommendation nor does it change any policy? Then theDemos have a failed Dept of Justice investigation who went a whole lot farther than this report did.

Here is what the Demos got.....Nothing!

Well one thing.....the backlash coming their way. :lol:
Click to expand...

LOL....I love your little game playing. Its like the old addage about the railroad worker who notices that a switch is out and he has to rush down to the tracks in order to manually pull the switch or else the train will crash killing hundreds on the train. As he makes it to the switch the train is coming, he pulls the switch and as he does he notices that his 4 year old son has followed him to the tracks and is standing on the tracks as the train is approaching. He can jump and save his son, in which case the train crashes killing all on board. What does the guy do?

If he saves his son, you decry him as being a bad father for not saving his son. If he saves his son, you decry him as being immoral because he let hundreds die to save one.

See the game that you are playing?

The reality is....selling the soul of this country to save lives is not worth the price and likely would result in more dead than standing true to the values and principles that makes America great.
 
Amadeus said:
I'm more repulsed that thousands more Americans died fighting a pointless war for a country that had already decided to abandon its morals.
Click to expand...

Typical left wing non-answer.
 
German guy said:
The policy if systematic torture by the US was the worst and most outrageous mistake America made since 1945.

It is a disgrace for the country and massively damaged US and Western interests. As citizen of a NATO country and US ally, I feel deeply ashamed for these US policies.

Even the least bit about it must be made public, and those who broke law -- both US law, but especially also international human right standards the US too have signed and rhetorically claim to uphold on the world stage -- must be brought on trial and find punishment for their deeds.

Nobody who supports these policies has the slightest right to use the words "freedom", "democracy" or "justice" in the same sentence, because it is obvious that he or she does not have even the slightest idea what they mean.
Click to expand...

Under the law that existed at the time, the enhanced interrogations did not fit the legal definition of torture. Some of the senate report is outright laughable. One of the methods of torture listed was "forcing the terrorists to listen to loud rock music"
 
MMC said:
Mornin' German Guy. :2wave: So are you saying you would not torture a terrorist in order to save a multitude of people?
Click to expand...

Exactly. Everyone has a breaking point. I would bet that most of those who are outraged over the enhanced interrogations would have a change of heart if it were their own loved ones whose lives would be potentially saved. Then their narrative would be: "Whatever it takes".
 
disneydude said:
First of all the premise of your question is extremely flawed. There is no evidence that torturing a terrorist saves any lives. In fact, most of the evidence shows exactly the opposite. That being said....if I am going to play along with your little game the answer would still be no. I would not mortgage the integrity of this nation to save lives. When you lower your standards to the level of your enemies, you are no better than them and any "victory" becomes a rather shallow one.
Click to expand...

You mean those enemies that behead men, women, and children? crash airliners into skyscrapers, and set off suicide bombs? You are equating that with limited use of waterboarding?
 
ObamacareFail said:
Exactly. Everyone has a breaking point. I would bet that most of those who are outraged over the enhanced interrogations would have a change of heart if it were their own loved ones whose lives would be potentially saved. Then their narrative would be: "Whatever it takes".
Click to expand...
but that is the point
according to the torture report, NO actionable intelligence was gathered as a result of our torturous actions
none of our troops benefitted from the violation of the Geneva conventions

but now, when our troops are subjected to such treatment by an enemy what can we, as a nation, say in objection to their actions
and what do you say to the family of those Americans who would be subjected to torture like that we doled out
 
disneydude said:
As I have already said twice....I would not sell the integrity and morality of this country out to save lives. I'm sorry that people will die, but saving their lives at the expense of destroying the country is too high a price to pay.

Oh...and sorry....but a few self-serving statements from people who want to justify their actions stands counter to the vast amount of evidence that dispute the claim that torturing people saves lives.
Click to expand...

What if the lives being saved included your own loved ones? Would you make an exception?
 
justabubba said:
but that is the point
according to the torture report, NO actionable intelligence was gathered as a result of our torturous actions
none of our troops benefitted from the violation of the Geneva conventions

but now, when our troops are subjected to such treatment by an enemy what can we, as a nation, say in objection to their actions
and what do you say to the family of those Americans who would be subjected to tortrere like that we doled out
Click to expand...

That report was put together by democrats with a preconceived purpose and preconceived conclusions. It did not include the top CIA leadership's input or rebuttals. And it loses credibility merely with the false conclusion that no actionable intelligence resulted from the enhanced interrogations.
 
disneydude said:
LOL....I love your little game playing. Its like the old addage about the railroad worker who notices that a switch is out and he has to rush down to the tracks in order to manually pull the switch or else the train will crash killing hundreds on the train. As he makes it to the switch the train is coming, he pulls the switch and as he does he notices that his 4 year old son has followed him to the tracks and is standing on the tracks as the train is approaching. He can jump and save his son, in which case the train crashes killing all on board. What does the guy do?

If he saves his son, you decry him as being a bad father for not saving his son. If he saves his son, you decry him as being immoral because he let hundreds die to save one.

See the game that you are playing?

The reality is....selling the soul of this country to save lives is not worth the price and likely would result in more dead than standing true to the values and principles that makes America great.
Click to expand...



Its not a game. Just a Hard choice to make.

What the Left doesn't like about it is.....it puts an end to their game and all that preaching that they thought they could do.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Exactly. Everyone has a breaking point. I would bet that most of those who are outraged over the enhanced interrogations would have a change of heart if it were their own loved ones whose lives would be potentially saved. Then their narrative would be: "Whatever it takes".
Click to expand...

Exactly OCF :2wave: Especially when family is in the mix. Or just think if their people were kidnapped, and that terrorist knows where their family member is.
 
President Obama needs to pardon Cheney and Bush for their war crimes of ordering the torture .
 
Buck Ewer said:
President Obama needs to pardon Cheney and Bush for their war crimes of ordering the torture .
Click to expand...

why?
and what about gonzalez?
how about the attorney who wrote the legal position paper asserting that the methods used were not torture and did not violate the Geneva conventions?
 
justabubba said:
why?
and what about gonzalez?
how about the attorney who wrote the legal position paper asserting that the methods used were not torture and did not violate the Geneva conventions?
Click to expand...

Gozales and Rummy too.
If we are not going to prosecute them they must be pardoned to acknowledge the fact that crimes were committed.
Doing nothing indicates tacit complicity with these criminals.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom