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Is America the greatest nation on earth?

Is America the greatest country on earth?

  • Yes

    Votes: 45 45.9%
  • No

    Votes: 53 54.1%

  • Total voters
    98
socialism appeals to two classes of people

losers who are mad that they aren't doing well in the current system

and power hungry jerks who want to become richer and more powerful pandering to the first group
Actually that second bit describes capitalism to a T.

The first is pure propaganda.

Socialism does not give people free anything either, it gives them FAIR opportunity.
Capitalism appeals to greedy people that want more than they have as well, and want to screw others.

If you grew up poor, with bad schools to go to, you never had a chance in the current system, and even if you do manage to make it out, you will be paying off your student debt until your 60.

Capitalism makes wage slaves and allows people to be born into wealth and never work, but consume a majority of the resources. How is that fair? Its not.

You obviously have no idea what socialism actually means. Or the full definition of a loophole for that matter.

Try having a clue OK?
 
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I see now your lean is "communist"

amused I am, that's even sillier a philosophy than socialism
Define communism. Can you have a communist government? You realize achieving communism is literal achieving utopia? And almost certainly will not happen in our lifetime.
 
Define communism. Can you have a communist government? You realize achieving communism is literal achieving utopia? And almost certainly will not happen in our lifetime.
Don't bother. It's not worth it
 
get a new line

or maybe you need to get a new philosophy on life

i've never met a rich socialist in this country.....have you?

i've met plenty of rich liberals, and conservatives

i believe people should strive for the moon.....

when your labor is shared by the hive for the good of all....most people lose incentive

capitalism has a few drawbacks that i am willing to live with
 
Actually that second bit describes capitalism to a T.

The first is pure propaganda.

Socialism does not give people free anything either, it gives them FAIR opportunity.
Capitalism appeals to greedy people that want more than they have as well, and want to screw others.

If you grew up poor, with bad schools to go to, you never had a chance in the current system, and even if you do manage to make it out, you will be paying off your student debt until your 60.

Capitalism makes wage slaves and allows people to be born into wealth and never work, but consume a majority of the resources. How is that fair? Its not.

You obviously have no idea what socialism actually means. Or the full definition of a loophole for that matter.

Try having a clue OK?


impossible heh?

1. John Paul DeJoria

2. Ursula Burns

3. Howard Schultz

4. Francois Pinault

5. Leonardo Del Vecchio

6. Richard Desmond

7. Oprah Winfrey

8. Mark Zuckerberg

9. Paula Long (one of my favorite stories)

these are all rag to riches stories (mega riches)

great ideas and work turned into epic fortunes

that is what capitalism does
 
or maybe you need to get a new philosophy on life

i've never met a rich socialist in this country.....have you?

i've met plenty of rich liberals, and conservatives

i believe people should strive for the moon.....

when your labor is shared by the hive for the good of all....most people lose incentive

capitalism has a few drawbacks that i am willing to live with

no I have no met many wealthy socialists but why should that matter

socialists don't suffer from the delusion that "working hard" will afford them entry to a new social class and often reject the idea that they should even exist

ive never seen anyone actually lay out this whole "incentive" argument

good for you i guess
 
I havent seen any suggestions for a country better than the US yet. Those freedom rankings are pretty much junk we get down graded because we actually lock up our criminals instead of letting them run the streets and we get down graded on freedom of speech for allowing protections to classified information yet countries where you can go to jail for stupid tweets are ranked higher.

Where-to-be-born Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Nice propaganda piece. Soooo, one picture of a fallow factory, and one picture of a few tents proves your point? Uhm.....no.

Trying to hide millions of jobs lost?
Trying to deny homeless millions and SNAP survivors at record levals?

The guillotine is coming..................EX middle class is the key to any revolution.....................
 
Trying to hide millions of jobs lost?
Trying to deny homeless millions and SNAP survivors at record levals?

The guillotine is coming..................EX middle class is the key to any revolution.....................

What? I thought things were just great since The Obama took over.

The guillotine is coming? For who, commie pieces of ****? Good.
 
Build a man a fire, he's warm for a day; set a man on fire, he's warm for the rest of his life.

LOL! Damn - you got in ahead of me! :D
 
Build a man a fire, he's warm for a day; set a man on fire, he's warm for the rest of his life.

somebody had that as a signature here
 
I'm human and I don't mind sharing. Most people shouldn't. Jesus was a socialist.

Furthermore socialism does not mean sharing your things. It would actually give the average citizen more things to share, and make it so those that are unscrupulously wealthy actually had to work.

Lol !! Not this nonsense again.

Jesus was not a Socialist.

Please quote the scripture, book and passage where Jesus advocates forced redistribution via some bloated Bureaucracy.

Where he States that Government should be given the authority to control the means of production.

Socialism doesn't guarantee " equality ". It guarantees mediocrity, waste and eventually massive unsustainable debt

Argentina, Spain, France and Venezuela come to mind as excellent examples of the failures of Socialism.

Its naive to think anyone let alone the Government could guarantee some semblance of equality and fairness and its down right foolish to believe that Government should be the ultimate arbiter of whats fair in the first place.

Don't codemn the rest of Society to the consequences of Socialism just because the idea of self sufficiency and the Government staying out of your life scares the hell out of you.
 
Lol !! Not this nonsense again.

Jesus was not a Socialist.

Please quote the scripture, book and passage where Jesus advocates forced redistribution via some bloated Bureaucracy.

Where he States that Government should be given the authority to control the means of production.

Socialism doesn't guarantee " equality ". It guarantees mediocrity, waste and eventually massive unsustainable debt

Argentina, Spain, France and Venezuela come to mind as excellent examples of the failures of Socialism.

Its naive to think anyone let alone the Government could guarantee some semblance of equality and fairness and its down right foolish to believe that Government should be the ultimate arbiter of whats fair in the first place.

Don't codemn the rest of Society to the consequences of Socialism just because the idea of self sufficiency and the Government staying out of your life scares the hell out of you.

Socialism has nothing to do with forced redistribution. It advocates the people owning the means of production.

Jesus was for giving to those less fortunate. He was also for equality. These are things socialism advocates and capitalism does not.

None of that is true, and your basing your opinion of socialism on Stalinist governments. Their is a large difference. No major country has ever had socialism.

France is not socialist. They have a mixed market economy. Never has been.

Spain has a capitalist mixed economy and a monarch. That's about as far as you can get from socialism without being fully capitalist FYI. Spain is also a decentralized government so different areas have allot more control than other places. For example their is one little town where in the 70s the people where starving. Now it is possibly one of the only examples of actual socialism in the world. The mayor (who was elected in the late 70s) took the unemployment rate from 60% to near 0%. People used to starve their. Now they get paid double the minimum wage if they are members of the towns farming coop. They where not effected by the 2008 crash. (like the rest of capitalist Spain)

Argentina was mostly Stalinist or even fascist. Neither is anywhere near socialism or communism. One of the ways you know a country is Stalinist is if its government claims to have achieved communism. No government should can do this and still exist. For the short periods of time (five years in spurts total in the 60s) they were socialist, they actually prospered greatly. Had their not been outside intervention and those people allowed to stay in power they still would.

And lastly Venezuela, the only one that's remotely close to socialism (or claims to be socialist for that matter) Venezuela still has private business believe it or not, so technically they have a socialist mixed market. That's not total socialism. Furthermore even if they where totally socialist they are the statist version, in which the state assumes massive amounts of control instead of the people. Theoretically they do this in the name of the people, but it usually does not work out that way. IMO to truly be socialist you need a market comprised of coops and a government that only owns production of things that are nesicsary to life. Like water, healthcare, education, and food. Although I do think cooperative ownership of food production could work well to. In all actuality Venezuela is not socialist because the people never controlled the means of production, the state did.

So your massively wrong on the first three, and half right on the last.... Good job...

The consequences of capitalism are terrible, as we are seeing. It turns into oligarchy every time.

I am a non violent drug felon. Please explain how your unfounded statement about the government staying out of my life scares me. What a joke. I don't think the government should be involved in most social issues, as it obviously is in capitalist society. It should be involved in helping to provide basic needs to the lower class, such as education, healthcare, food (as well as regulating the production of food MUCH better than it does now) and housing. It also should regulate buisness of any sort to stop it from destroying the environment or ripping off its customers (as it does not now)

So you would condemn society to the hellish consequences of capitalism? If yes then your ok with huge wealth gaps, endless wars for no reason, living in a oligarchy, and total destruction of the environment...
 
Socialism has nothing to do with forced redistribution. It advocates the people owning the means of production.

{snip remainder based on that bold assumption}

Hold on there, Skippy. Where do the people get the capital to invest (for land, building and machinery) into creating that "means of production"? Might they be expected to pony that up via taxation of some sort? Is that taxation flat or is it progressive, meaning that income redistribution is assured simply based on that taxation scheme?
 
Hold on there, Skippy. Where do the people get the capital to invest (for land, building and machinery) into creating that "means of production"? Might they be expected to pony that up via taxation of some sort? Is that taxation flat or is it progressive, meaning that income redistribution is assured simply based on that taxation scheme?

The people already have the capital to invest. It just gets stolen by the wealthy.

Their capital is in labour. The rich's capital is in nothing.
 
The people already have the capital to invest. It just gets stolen by the wealthy.

Their capital is in labour. The rich's capital is in nothing.

You need to learn more to discuss what is required in order to start a business
 
You need to learn more to discuss what is required in order to start a business
You need to learn more about how capitalism screws everybody and how wealth in America has never be fair, and should he taken from those who unjustly got it.

Im not a capitalist, I am a socialist. I believe in cooperative ownership and that the people that wish to participate should start coops as a joint employee or consumer owned venture. Corporations should be illegal, SNF eventually the people will take the massive amounts of wealth currently in the oligarchs pockets. They stole it from the people in the first place through chattel and wage slavery.

I'm not talking about starting s business, I'm talking about starting a government. Their is a HUGE difference. Treating government like a business is what has the world in the very screwy state of affairs it is.

You probably could use a history lesson or two as well. Go read Zinn.
 
Yes America is the greatest country on earth because everything that's good comes from America and if we don't agree with someone we send drones too make them think like us because America is the greatest country on earth **** yeah!!
 
The people already have the capital to invest. It just gets stolen by the wealthy.

Their capital is in labour. The rich's capital is in nothing.

you are right to a point

workers trade their labor for a paycheck, which they then use to buy needs and wants

based upon the type of work, and the skill required, the amount you are paid differs

the owners of the business where you work, provide you a place to work, a job to do, and a paycheck for doing it well

in return, they take your labor and turn it into profits

profits that they can take for themselves, put back into the business to grow it, or pay other investors back

it is a win/win for everyone

the losers are the ones who can work, but refuse to

or the ones who refuse to learn additional skills to move up the wage tree
 
Socialism has nothing to do with forced redistribution. It advocates the people owning the means of production.

Jesus was for giving to those less fortunate. He was also for equality. These are things socialism advocates and capitalism does not.

None of that is true, and your basing your opinion of socialism on Stalinist governments. Their is a large difference. No major country has ever had socialism.

France is not socialist. They have a mixed market economy. Never has been.

Spain has a capitalist mixed economy and a monarch. That's about as far as you can get from socialism without being fully capitalist FYI. Spain is also a decentralized government so different areas have allot more control than other places. For example their is one little town where in the 70s the people where starving. Now it is possibly one of the only examples of actual socialism in the world. The mayor (who was elected in the late 70s) took the unemployment rate from 60% to near 0%. People used to starve their. Now they get paid double the minimum wage if they are members of the towns farming coop. They where not effected by the 2008 crash. (like the rest of capitalist Spain)

Argentina was mostly Stalinist or even fascist. Neither is anywhere near socialism or communism. One of the ways you know a country is Stalinist is if its government claims to have achieved communism. No government should can do this and still exist. For the short periods of time (five years in spurts total in the 60s) they were socialist, they actually prospered greatly. Had their not been outside intervention and those people allowed to stay in power they still would.

And lastly Venezuela, the only one that's remotely close to socialism (or claims to be socialist for that matter) Venezuela still has private business believe it or not, so technically they have a socialist mixed market. That's not total socialism. Furthermore even if they where totally socialist they are the statist version, in which the state assumes massive amounts of control instead of the people. Theoretically they do this in the name of the people, but it usually does not work out that way. IMO to truly be socialist you need a market comprised of coops and a government that only owns production of things that are nesicsary to life. Like water, healthcare, education, and food. Although I do think cooperative ownership of food production could work well to. In all actuality Venezuela is not socialist because the people never controlled the means of production, the state did.

So your massively wrong on the first three, and half right on the last.... Good job...

The consequences of capitalism are terrible, as we are seeing. It turns into oligarchy every time.

I am a non violent drug felon. Please explain how your unfounded statement about the government staying out of my life scares me. What a joke. I don't think the government should be involved in most social issues, as it obviously is in capitalist society. It should be involved in helping to provide basic needs to the lower class, such as education, healthcare, food (as well as regulating the production of food MUCH better than it does now) and housing. It also should regulate buisness of any sort to stop it from destroying the environment or ripping off its customers (as it does not now)

So you would condemn society to the hellish consequences of capitalism? If yes then your ok with huge wealth gaps, endless wars for no reason, living in a oligarchy, and total destruction of the environment...

wronguh ! under socialism the gov. controls the means of production.
 
wronguh ! under socialism the gov. controls the means of production.
And under properly set up socialism the people control the means of through the government with policy's like direct democracy or through voting in reps through labour unions which they can impeach whenever they like.

Your referring to stalinism... Allot of people conflate the two...
 
you are right to a point

workers trade their labor for a paycheck, which they then use to buy needs and wants

based upon the type of work, and the skill required, the amount you are paid differs

the owners of the business where you work, provide you a place to work, a job to do, and a paycheck for doing it well

in return, they take your labor and turn it into profits

profits that they can take for themselves, put back into the business to grow it, or pay other investors back

it is a win/win for everyone

the losers are the ones who can work, but refuse to

or the ones who refuse to learn additional skills to move up the wage tree
No its a losing situation for the workers. They can be laid off, and have no power in where the business goes. It results in a system where the workers are slaves to their wages, and allows the opulently wealthy to garner the vast majority of the resources. Also the owners almost always wind up with a disproportionately large amount of the income, and the workers with a very small amount.

This system also allows the owners to live like kings with doing little to no work, and in allot of cases to never have to do any work because they inherit their wealth.

This is extremely unfair to the working class. It can be seen throughout society. Just look at apple. They are dodging the vast majority of their taxes, giving suppliers employees diseases like leukemia, and their executive teams make 95000 more than the people hat actually make their products.

The most complete data are for 2011. In that year, Apple’s nine-person executive leadership team received total compensation of $441 million. This was equivalent to the estimated compensation of 95,000 Foxconn factory workers assembling Apple products.

The average CEO in america makes 354 times more than the average employee, generally for much less work. This is far from a "win win" for the working class, and will almost always be how capitalism winds up, that is, oligarchy.
 
No its a losing situation for the workers. They can be laid off, and have no power in where the business goes. It results in a system where the workers are slaves to their wages, and allows the opulently wealthy to garner the vast majority of the resources. Also the owners almost always wind up with a disproportionately large amount of the income, and the workers with a very small amount.

This system also allows the owners to live like kings with doing little to no work, and in allot of cases to never have to do any work because they inherit their wealth.

This is extremely unfair to the working class. It can be seen throughout society. Just look at apple. They are dodging the vast majority of their taxes, giving suppliers employees diseases like leukemia, and their executive teams make 95000 more than the people hat actually make their products.



The average CEO in america makes 354 times more than the average employee, generally for much less work. This is far from a "win win" for the working class, and will almost always be how capitalism winds up, that is, oligarchy.

the lesson from this-start your own business and become a CEO rather than whining about being an employee
 
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