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Should we be holding Mexico responsible?

Should we be holding Mexico responsible?

  • Total voters
    35
OrphanSlug said:
You see, this is what we face dealing with people that exist in an ideological dream world that suggests active suspension of critical thought.
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Yes. That is exactly what you display.


OrphanSlug said:
What you seem to not realize (or are desperately trying to ignore... perhaps both) is that your thinking here is why we end up in the mentality of policing the actions of other nations in a manner we see fit no matter what we are doing in our own backyard. The severity of impact to this nation, direct or indirect or not at all, just the suggestion that we can hold some other nation responsible without explanation in how or why is itself grade school level thinking. You may not like that, but it is accurate.

Ultimately we cannot hold Mexico "responsible" except by force, and even then the impact is questionable in action and likely long term implication. You know it, and I know it.

The truth of the matter is *our* immigration problems are ours to solve. It boils down to dealing with policy in a way that makes economic and social sense then deciding to enforcing it. Until then, holding Mexico "responsible" is both absurd and a false argument. We do not bother to enforce our own laws we have on the books right now. So you pretending that you are engaging in meaningful discussion asking such an elementary question within the confines of ideological foolishness is useless.

Congrats, the above post and the language of it proves my point conclusively.
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Thank you for showing all that you want to read too much into a simple question.

What you fail to understand that your take on this is warped and is therefor yourself that causes the problems you imagine.

And if Mexico is in part responsible (and make sure you wrap your mind around the "If") for the influx of illegals, then they should be held responsible for their part, which is and would be, taking care of our problems. The hows that could be accomplished was and still is irrelevant to the original question.

Your idea that we were supposed to be engaging in any meaningful discussion when it was a poll of where folks stood is ludicrous in the least.
That is your problem.
All I wanted to know is where folks stood.

Is that really that difficult for you to understand?
 
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shrubnose said:
Exactly how do you plan on doing that?

Fill us in.

I doubt that the U.S. Calvary will be riding into Mexico on a punitive expedition anytime soon.
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Well, a good start would be identifying all illegals, granting some sort of path to citizenship for them and then tax the hell out of them, so much so that they don't have much left to send back to Mexico to not only support the entire clan, but by extension the corrupt Mexican Government.
Voila.
It seems that Obama has paved the way for just that. Now we need to elect those with enough cajones to bring it to fruition.
 
What are they going to tax..fruit pickers...cleaners..maids..??

These people are trying to survive..not take your living away from you...

Is that so bad??
 
Excon said:
Should we be holding or attempting to hold Mexico responsible for their Citizens that cross over and become illegals?
Yes or no?
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Are you looking to categorize "invasion" vs "criminal activity" behind the scenes? Just curious.
 
Excon said:
Should we be holding or attempting to hold Mexico responsible for their Citizens that cross over and become illegals?
Yes or no?
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Before I vote, I would like to understand what you mean by "hold them responsible"? How are we to do that?
 
APACHERAT said:
We could use former Gen. Curtis LeMay's strategy, bomb Mexico back into the stone age.

Mexico has always been a complete basket case. Give them a second chance and let them start over from scratch.
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That'll go over well with all the American companies that have factories there.
 
Since "how" is unimportant, I suggest that Rick Perry should stand at the border and sternly shake his finger.
 
Excon said:
Should we be holding or attempting to hold Mexico responsible for their Citizens that cross over and become illegals?
Yes or no?
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I want to say yes.But those people are here illegally because our government deliberately encouraged those people to come here illegally and Mexico was like sure why not. Our government encouraged those people to come here illegally by suing states that enacted anti-illegal immigration laws while ignoring sanctuary states, enacting executive orders to not enforce our laws regarding illegal immigration, making promises of amnesty/legalization for people here illegally, barely enforcing anti-illegal immigration laws and not adequately securing our borders.Those that should be held responsible are the traitorous scum in office who encouraged this mess, the traitors who hire illegals and any illegals that are caught(after all it takes two to tango).
 
DVSentinel said:
Before I vote, I would like to understand what you mean by "hold them responsible"? How are we to do that?
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You already knew the response you were going to get before you asked. :doh

You do not need to know my beliefs to answer an in-general question.
If you do not believe they should be, then the only answer is "no".
If you believe they should be, the only answer is yes.
The "How" of a "Yes" answer is totally dependent on the answerer's own beliefs.

Why that is so hard for some folks to understand, is beyond belief.
 
rocket88 said:
Since "how" is unimportant, I suggest that Rick Perry should stand at the border and sternly shake his finger.
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No one said how was unimportant.
But "How" is irrelevant to the in-general question.

The "How" of a "Yes" answer is totally dependent on the answerer's own beliefs.

Why that is so hard for some folks to understand, is beyond belief.
 
MACS-24 said:
Are you looking to categorize "invasion" vs "criminal activity" behind the scenes? Just curious.
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No such intent was stated or implied. :shrug:
Had you read the following, I think you would have been understood I never implied "invasion".
If they allow active encouragement of their citizens to break our laws, they are partially responsible.
And since they are not doing anything to stem the tide, when the Country itself is against illegal immigration into it's own borders they are far more culpable, and should be held responsible.​
 
jamesrage said:
I want to say yes.But those people are here illegally because our government deliberately encouraged those people to come here illegally and Mexico was like sure why not. Our government encouraged those people to come here illegally by suing states that enacted anti-illegal immigration laws while ignoring sanctuary states, enacting executive orders to not enforce our laws regarding illegal immigration, making promises of amnesty/legalization for people here illegally, barely enforcing anti-illegal immigration laws and not adequately securing our borders.Those that should be held responsible are the traitorous scum in office who encouraged this mess, the traitors who hire illegals and any illegals that are caught(after all it takes two to tango).
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No one said that only one party had to be held responsible. :shrug:
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Would you hold LA responsible if one of its residents committed a crime in TX? Do you hold the US responsible when a US tourist commits a crime in another nation?
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It's hard to compare a singular crime to that of an invasion.
 
Excon said:
Should we be holding or attempting to hold Mexico responsible for their Citizens that cross over and become illegals?
Yes or no?
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Absolutely.
 
Excon said:
You have described your post to a T.
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so you are in line that Middle East countries should hold the USA responsible for crimes and atrocities committed by oil companies and their contractors and our "nation building" in the last half century.
You just justified the whole terrorism mentality and anti-american sentiment.

sicko.
 
like shooting fish in a barrel

OP went offline in about 2 minutes.
 
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Excon said:
You already knew the response you were going to get before you asked. :doh

You do not need to know my beliefs to answer an in-general question.
If you do not believe they should be, then the only answer is "no".
If you believe they should be, the only answer is yes.
The "How" of a "Yes" answer is totally dependent on the answerer's own beliefs.

Why that is so hard for some folks to understand, is beyond belief.
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Because many words and terms have different meanings and usages and until you identify what use or meaning you are attempting to apply, some just don't know. Sorry we cannot all read your mind instead of only your words. How you define "responsible" may not be the same as someone else.
 
Excon said:
No such intent was stated or implied. :shrug:
Had you read the following, I think you would have been understood I never implied "invasion".
If they allow active encouragement of their citizens to break our laws, they are partially responsible.
And since they are not doing anything to stem the tide, when the Country itself is against illegal immigration into it's own borders they are far more culpable, and should be held responsible.​
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I could not read what was not there. None of that was in the quote I responded to.

It is my opinion that one cannot hold Mexico responsible unless one views it as an invasion. Otherwise, it's criminal activity and one punishes the criminal, then you can't keep it as simple as you want as you have to prove in court that Mexico is an accomplice to the crime.
 
Jango said:
It's hard to compare a singular crime to that of an invasion.
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It is also hard to blame anyone for wanting to get out of Mexico. How can a nation that is granting amnesty to folks, that they let in and granted jobs to, blame the nation that they escaped from? The reason for the "invasion" lies only with the US in this case; it is not the responsibility of nations to keep their folks in but it is their responsibility to enforce laws within their borders. Can you honestly say that we are being fair to Mexico by choosing to deport only the "worst of the worst"?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It is also hard to blame anyone for wanting to get out of Mexico. How can a nation that is granting amnesty to folks, that they let in and granted jobs to, blame the nation that they escaped from? The reason for the "invasion" lies only with the US in this case; it is not the responsibility of nations to keep their folks in but it is their responsibility to enforce laws within their borders. Can you honestly say that we are being fair to Mexico by choosing to deport only the "worst of the worst"?
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Mexico is supposedly an ally of ours, yet they know that illegal crossings are occurring, the military themselves have violated our sovereignty, but the crossers are encouraged by the Mexican government (as well other governments) to venture north illegally. But if you want to blame our border defense and absolve Mexico of any responsibility, we need to guard our borders like Israel does: if a person climbs on the border fence that person gets shot to death. I bet Mexico would cry foul, as if we should just tolerate illegal crossers to freely enter. I don't care about their sob stories, as there is no way to verify all of the claims of hardship they might cite. If they want to live someplace safer, the best way of achieving that isn't by becoming a criminal in the process. What's stopping people we really do not want crossing the border to come across? And since the answer to that question is 'Nothing', then Mexico's nonchalance and cavalier attitude about America's national security should be a clear and present indicator that a reevaluation of our relationship is in order.
 
Jango said:
Mexico is supposedly an ally of ours, yet they know that illegal crossings are occurring, the military themselves have violated our sovereignty, but the crossers are encouraged by the Mexican government (as well other governments) to venture north illegally. But if you want to blame our border defense and absolve Mexico of any responsibility, we need to guard our borders like Israel does: if a person climbs on the border fence that person gets shot to death. I bet Mexico would cry foul, as if we should just tolerate illegal crossers to freely enter. I don't care about their sob stories, as there is no way to verify all of the claims of hardship they might cite. If they want to live someplace safer, the best way of achieving that isn't by becoming a criminal in the process. What's stopping people we really do not want crossing the border to come across? And since the answer to that question is 'Nothing', then Mexico's nonchalance and cavalier attitude about America's national security should be a clear and present indicator that a reevaluation of our relationship is in order.
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Our border defense is pathetic but it is light years ahead of our interior enforcement. With millions of "illegal" workers, many standing around the home improvement stores waiting for tax free work, it should be a piece of cake to round them up. The estimated 8 million illegal workers result in very few employer arrests or employee deporations.

Obama holds record for cracking down on employers who hire undocumented workers, says Wasserman Schultz | PolitiFact Florida
 
Excon said:
No one said how was unimportant.
But "How" is irrelevant to the in-general question.

The "How" of a "Yes" answer is totally dependent on the answerer's own beliefs.

Why that is so hard for some folks to understand, is beyond belief.
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Since you don't like my way of holding them responsible, perhaps you have a different suggestion?
 
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