• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    Votes: 16 48.5%

  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    Votes: 4 12.1%

  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    Votes: 13 39.4%

  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    33
US Conservative said:
More reading can be found at the provided links. Please read them and using the provided definitions vote.


Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?
Click to expand...

anonymous polls suck massively
 
Both.
........
 
The internet was created by government research funded by "stealing" taxpayer money. The thing, even the hypocrites in this thread truly believe that was a fair trade. The internet is so powerful (and profitable) that its value far surpasses the additional tax burden needed to create it. Even hypocrites would never have funded the internet cannot prevent themselves from using it, even for trivial things like the entertainment this site provides.

Its hard to moralize about how evil taxes are while you stuff your greedy face with the ill-gotten gains from that act of "aggression".
 
rathi said:
The internet was created by government research funded by "stealing" taxpayer money. The thing, even the hypocrites in this thread truly believe that was a fair trade. The internet is so powerful (and profitable) that its value far surpasses the additional tax burden needed to create it. Even hypocrites would never have funded the internet cannot prevent themselves from using it, even for trivial things like the entertainment this site provides.

Its hard to moralize about how evil taxes are while you stuff your greedy face with the ill-gotten gains from that act of "aggression".
Click to expand...

Thats a half truth at best. It was a military development that went on to have civilian applications. And even the welfare state recognizes the need for a military.
 
US Conservative said:
Law enforcement is a legitimate function of govt though. Coerced redistribution not so much.
Click to expand...
We'll have to disagree on that point. Both coercion and redistribution are both valid and necessary forms of government authority.
 
US Conservative said:
Thats a half truth at best. It was a military development that went on to have civilian applications. And even the welfare state recognizes the need for a military.
Click to expand...

You are the one telling half truths. The funding for the internet was intentionally designed to create a civilian network which is why resources were poured into the program long past the military applications. If some idiot following your ideology had been in charge, the project would never have developed past the ARPANET stage.

The sole reason the U.S. is wealthy today is because the taxpayers of the past paid for highways, railroads, research projects and a million other things that drive the American economy. You've lived off the fat of other peoples labor your whole life, now you want to screw the next generation out of the benefits you got for yourself.
 
a351 said:
We'll have to disagree on that point. Both coercion and redistribution are both valid and necessary forms of government authority.
Click to expand...

Why is that?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
*sigh*.

So let's let you have it your way. No more social safety net:

No more health care for children whose parent's can't afford health care for them.
No more food stamps for those who can't afford enough food to feed their families.
No more vocational rehab for the disabled so they can find work.
No more unemployment insurance to provide a cushion when somebody gets laid off.
No more free meals for poor kids at school.
No more access to health care for the poor - heck, no more automatic access to care in the emergency room, either.
No more rent assistance - if a family can't afford the rent, they're on the street and good riddance!
No more taxpayer-funded job search assistance - if you can't find a job, tough luck.
No more taxpayer-funded job training - if you can't afford to pay for the training, tough luck.
No more taxpayer-funded assistance for the disabled - if they can't afford a wheelchair, they can crawl!
No more taxpayer-funded access to nursing homes - if they can't afford the nursing home, out on the street they go!
No more taxpayer-funded vaccinations - if you catch measles, tough luck - just die quickly so you don't spread it to others.
Click to expand...

So no more sponging off others for your personal benefit. The horror!
 
US Conservative said:
More reading can be found at the provided links. Please read them and using the provided definitions vote.


Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?
Click to expand...

Can we ask the Republican South?

Which States Take the Most From the U.S. Government? - Real Time Economics - WSJ

Mississippi — 55.5% for Mitt Romney — cashes in with $3.07 in federal funding for every dollar paid in income taxes.
Click to expand...

Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers? - The Atlantic

The reddest states on that map at the top—Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, New Mexico, Maine—have exceptionally high poverty rates and thus receive disproportionately large shares of federal dollars. Through a variety of social programs, the federal government disburses hundreds of billions of dollars each year to maintain a “safety net” intended to help the neediest among us. Consider, for example, the percentage of each state’s residents who get “food stamps” through the federal government’s SNAP program. This chart tells the story.
Click to expand...

cf89185a3.jpg


'Red State Socialism' graphic says GOP-leaning states get lion's share of federal dollars | PolitiFact

"Of the 32 states which receive more than they contribute, 27 states (84%) are REPUBLICAN. Of the 18 states which contribute more than they receive, 14 states (78%) are DEMOCRATIC."
Click to expand...

Well, we know what Republicans prefer. :)
 
Since there is no night-watchmen state in existence (or in past existence) in which to assess the success or failure, the poll is irrelevant and cannot be answered. I therefore choose option 7:

I am either an American or not an American and I find the poll to be irrelevant since there is no frame of reference of a "night watchmen state" of comparison.

Feel free to vote this way by placing it in your post.
 
rathi said:
You are the one telling half truths. The funding for the internet was intentionally designed to create a civilian network which is why resources were poured into the program long past the military applications. If some idiot following your ideology had been in charge, the project would never have developed past the ARPANET stage.

The sole reason the U.S. is wealthy today is because the taxpayers of the past paid for highways, railroads, research projects and a million other things that drive the American economy. You've lived off the fat of other peoples labor your whole life, now you want to screw the next generation out of the benefits you got for yourself.
Click to expand...

And that network would be sitting in the basement of a college computer sciences building today if it hadn't been for the military.
 
Hatuey said:
Can we ask the Republican South?

Which States Take the Most From the U.S. Government? - Real Time Economics - WSJ



Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers? - The Atlantic



cf89185a3.jpg


'Red State Socialism' graphic says GOP-leaning states get lion's share of federal dollars | PolitiFact



Well, we know what Republicans prefer. :)
Click to expand...

Your problems is that you dont realize lefties live even in red states, where they take a disproportionate amount of handouts (hardly surprising).

Exploding the left
A survey by the Maxwell Poll on the political affiliation of those receiving government aid showed this to be the case.
Type of Benefit Received Percent Voting Democrat Percent Voting Republican
Public Housing
81%
12%
Medicaid
74%
16%
Food Stamps
67%
20%
Unemployment Compensation
66%
21%
Disability (from Govt.)
64%
25%
Welfare/Public Assistance
63%
22%

Read more at Exploding the left
Click to expand...

So we have dems in red states getting this welfare state plunder (stolen from contributors) at 2-4+ times the republican population. Even if they dont vote in midterms. :)
 
US Conservative said:
Your problems is that you dont realize lefties live even in red states, where they take a disproportionate amount of handouts (hardly surprising).
Click to expand...

Prove it.

Exploding the left

So we have dems in red states getting this welfare state plunder (stolen from contributors) at 2-4+ times the republican population. Even if they dont vote in midterms. :)
Click to expand...

I don't know what is sadder, that you don't know what welfare state is or that you had to rely on a blogspot link to back up your claims. Gee, why it's almost like you didn't even understand what the links posted actually said. The fact that you think someone taking advantage of state run programs makes a difference is just laughable. But I'll give you a chance if you can answer 3 questions honestly:

1. Who runs Louisiana's Medicaid Program?
2. Who funds Louisiana's Medicaid Program?
3. Who determines the budget for Louisiana's Medicaid Program?

I can wait. I'll give ya a clue, those answers? They make a joke out of your red herring. :)
 
Last edited:
Only a sith deals in absolutes. I say we shoot for a cozy spot in the middle.
 
TeleKat said:
Only a sith deals in absolutes. I say we shoot for a cozy spot in the middle.
Click to expand...

There must be a counterbalance to the moral relativism of the Jedi. I am that counterbalance.
 
Hatuey said:
There must be a counterbalance to the moral relativism of the Jedi. I am that counterbalance.
Click to expand...

B-but you were the chosen one Hatuey!! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them.
 
Hatuey said:
Prove it.



I don't know what is sadder, that you don't know what welfare state is or that you had to rely on a blogspot link to back up your claims. Gee, why it's almost like you didn't even understand what the links posted actually said. The fact that you think someone taking advantage of state run programs makes a difference is just laughable. But I'll give you a chance if you can answer 3 questions honestly:

1. Who runs Louisiana's Medicaid Program?
2. Who funds Louisiana's Medicaid Program?
3. Who determines the budget for Louisiana's Medicaid Program?

I can wait. I'll give ya a clue, those answers? They make a joke out of your red herring. :)
Click to expand...

It does not change who uses the programs more, does it? Lets not pretend its the dems who are the party of fiscal responsibility.
 
US Conservative said:
It does not change who uses the programs more, does it? Lets not pretend its the dems who are the party of fiscal responsibility.
Click to expand...

The fact that you won't answer those three questions tell me all I need to know.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And then you and all your like minded individuals can find out why life in third-world nations is the way it is.
Click to expand...

Yeah, people using money out of their own pocket to help others is awful.
 
i would point out that the nightwatchman interpretation, would refer to the State [federal government] based on what the founders created.

since the 50 state themselves have more powers then the federal government via the Constitution, they are not confined to a nightwatchman classification.
 
US Conservative said:
It does not change who uses the programs more, does it? Lets not pretend its the dems who are the party of fiscal responsibility.
Click to expand...

So you won't answer those 3 simple questions will you? I didn't think you'd be honest enough to anyways. Here's the thing: People using those programs does not change who manages them. States manage those programs. States define their budgets and the federal government funds them. So why is it that red states don't slash their budgets to reflect their conservative fiscal policies? Well, it's mostly because they're not interested in it. They like the perks of federal funding. Why, hell another measure of just how little interest conservatives have in fiscal frugalism is pork spending:

RealClearPolitics - Senators Who Snagged the Most Pork in This Year's Spending - Mitch McConnell

Mitch McConnell
State: Kentucky
Party: Republican
Amount in Solo Earmarks: $51,186,000
Sample Earmarks:$1.6 million for a forage animal production research laboratory in Lexington,KY
$1.088 million for an animal waste management research lab in Bowling Green
Click to expand...

James Inhofe
State: Oklahoma
Party: Republican
Amount in Solo Earmarks: $53,133,500
Sample Earmarks:$500,000 Ada Public Works Authority, Wastewater Lift Station
$274,000 Animal Waste Management, OK
Click to expand...

Lisa Murkowski
State: Alaska
Party: Republican
Amount in Solo Earmarks: $74,000,750
Sample Earmarks:$19,642,000 Denali Commission to support health projects and economic development activities for the arctic region under the Denali Commission Act of 1998
$20,000,000 Olympic Nat'l Park (Elwha)
Click to expand...

Thad Cochran
State: Mississippi
Party: Republican
Amount in Solo Earmarks: $75,908,475
Sample Earmarks:$1,900,000 Hattiesburg 4th Street Improvements, MS
$26,000,000 Delta Health Alliance, Inc. to improve the delivery of public health services in the Mississippi Delta region under title III of the Public Health Service Act
Click to expand...

Kit Bond
State: Missouri
Party: Republican
Amount in Solo Earmarks: $85,691,491
Sample Earmarks:$950,000 World Trade Center of St. Louis, MO
$3,500,000 St. Louis Flood Protection, MO
Click to expand...

Richard Shelby
State: Alabama
Party: Republican
Amount in Solo Earmarks: $114,484,250
Sample Earmarks:$800,000 Oyster rehabilitation, AL
$3,800,000 City of Tuscaloosa Downtown Revitalization Project -University Blvd and Greensboro Avenue, AL
Click to expand...

Of the top 10 Senators responsible for bringing the most pork back to their state, 6 were Republican and 1 of them the new Senate Majority leader who said:

quote-the-fact-is-if-our-primary-legislative-goals-are-to-repeal-and-replace-the-health-spending-bill-mitch-mcconnell-123077.jpg


It's clear what the Republican Party and its leaders prefer. They prefer the welfare state. Proof:

- In the overwhelming majority of cases their budgets aren't cut to reflect conservative fiscal policies.
- 6 of the top 10 pork lovers in Washington are Republicans (one of them will be the new Senate Majority Leader)
- You can't even blame people who use these programs (like your blogspot link tried to do) as they have no control over which program the state makes available.

Hell, I can even go further. The organization Citizens Against Government Waste (a conservative think tank) has a monthly report on who loves that federal pork most. Guess who won last month?:

http://cagw.org/media/press-releases/cagw-names-rep-mike-rogers-november-porker-month

Today, Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW) named Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.) its November Porker of the Month for his second unsuccessful attempt to convince his fellow Republican lawmakers that it would be a good idea to restore earmarks
Click to expand...

We done yet? Or you want another thrashing on whether Republicans prefer the welfare state or the night watchman state?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom