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Deportation Question.

Could you deport them personally or not?

  • Total voters
    55
SouthernDemocrat said:
Its more than just that. For example, I am against vigilante justice. If someone killed one of my kids, I would want to kill them, and that is precisely why I shouldn't be allowed to. There is a lot cognitive dissonance in life, this is just one of example of it. Personally, I think the vast majority of people that voted yes in this poll could not actually do it if it was their personal decision and they had to get their hands dirty. That doesn't mean at a macro level / public policy level its a bad idea to deport those that are here illegally, it just means at the individual level its much grayer than most people are willing to admit.
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....not intending to hit out at you personally, but as a position, that doesn't strike me as very manly. You're willing to do it, so long as you personally don't have to get your hands dirty?
 
cpwill said:
....not intending to hit out at you personally, but as a position, that doesn't strike me as very manly. You're willing to do it, so long as you personally don't have to get your hands dirty?
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No its actually pretty well established in psychology. There are a lot of things that people will do if it is their job to do it that they would not do if they had to make the decision entirely themselves. Similarly there are a lot of things that one can support as being good policy overall that they would find hard to do themselves at the individual level. How "manly" someone is has nothing to do with it, its just how our conscience works.

For example, a company cuts back its workforce to respond to changing market conditions. One can see why they would have to do it, but still also see where it would be hard to be the middle manager having to decide which of his people he would let go. (this is why sociopaths make good CEOs)
 
jonny5 said:
It isnt their fault, or their job. Their job is to produce stuff, not to enforce the law. Thats the job of the govt.
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Not so fast. It is not an employer's job to enforce the law in the sense of arresting and prosecuting illegal immigrants. It is, however, the employer's responsibility to obey the laws, and the law says they are not allowed to hire illegal immigrants. So, being the law-abiding person that you seem to be, you advocate prosecution of employers breaking the law by hiring illegal immigrants, correct?


lifeisshort said:
Fair enough, Crossing the border illegally should be a felony then.
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We have too many felonies already. Are you willing to downgrade some felonies to misdemeanors? If so, which ones?
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: improvements are coming with the digitization of everything. Soon your car will report you for speeding, or have a digital ID that will identify you to a scanner, the same as they currently have video camera's at stoplights.
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Technologically, that is possible. Politically, I highly doubt it.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Technologically, that is possible. Politically, I highly doubt it.
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Oh. It's your opinion, then, that states are pretty well funded, and that localities will give up easy, low-cost ways of generating revenue?
 
cpwill said:
Oh. It's your opinion, then, that states are pretty well funded, and that localities will give up easy, low-cost ways of generating revenue?
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I'm sure that they would love to have another easy, low cost way of generating revenue. The problem is, the GPS speed detectors are likely to go the way of red light cameras in some of the communities. The protests are so loud that the communities (some of them anyway) have given up.

and that's not to mention the problem of motorists tinkering with the devices.
 
Dittohead not! said:
cpwill said:
:shrug: improvements are coming with the digitization of everything. Soon your car will report you for speeding, or have a digital ID that will identify you to a scanner, the same as they currently have video camera's at stoplights.
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Technologically, that is possible. Politically, I highly doubt it.
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I could see it happening (someday). All in the name of safety, of course. They would never use any information gathered for any other purpose, of course. *wink wink, nod nod*
 
8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien -

a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. (b) Improper time or place; civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of - (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed. (c) Marriage fraud Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both. (d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

See more at: 8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien




Mexico’s illegals laws tougher than Arizona’s


Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.

The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” violate Mexican law, are not “physically or mentally healthy” or lack the “necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents.


Mexico's illegals laws tougher than Arizona's - Washington Times
 
Dittohead not! said:
I'm sure that they would love to have another easy, low cost way of generating revenue. The problem is, the GPS speed detectors are likely to go the way of red light cameras in some of the communities. The protests are so loud that the communities (some of them anyway) have given up.

and that's not to mention the problem of motorists tinkering with the devices.
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:shrug: it's not impossible. But with every new car coming with a brand new IP address, our desire for constant connectivity will be our undoing :)
 
radcen said:
I could see it happening (someday). All in the name of safety, of course. They would never use any information gathered for any other purpose, of course. *wink wink, nod nod*
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Well, think about Amber Alerts. Are you willing to accept that instead of begging everyone to be on the alert for any red vans with a screaming, kidnapped 6 year old girl in the back, and hoping that works (while knowing it probably won't), we simply see where the vehicle is registering and redirect law enforcement?
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: it's not impossible. But with every new car coming with a brand new IP address, our desire for constant connectivity will be our undoing :)
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Could be. Of course, the outcry will be deafening, but it could fade eventually. Meanwhile, speed limits would actually mean something, which would make driving less stressful and safer.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Could be. Of course, the outcry will be deafening, but it could fade eventually. Meanwhile, speed limits would actually mean something, which would make driving less stressful and safer.
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:) As will the non-driver car, when (if?) that comes online.
 
cpwill said:
Well, think about Amber Alerts. Are you willing to accept that instead of begging everyone to be on the alert for any red vans with a screaming, kidnapped 6 year old girl in the back, and hoping that works (while knowing it probably won't), we simply see where the vehicle is registering and redirect law enforcement?
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And that's the type of scenario that would be used to sell us into buying into such a system. And that, in and of itself, is not unreasonable. But, keep in mind that other similar concepts have been sold to us with altruistic intentions then quickly abused and bastardized, i.e.: civil asset forfeiture was sold to us as to be used only against drug kingpins and other dealers & criminals, and anyone with open eyes can see where that went. (And that's only one example)

Any laws that would need to be passed to bring such a system into place would also be purposely written vaguely as to give great leeway far beyond their original intent.
 
radcen said:
And that's the type of scenario that would be used to sell us into buying into such a system. And that, in and of itself, is not unreasonable. But, keep in mind that other similar concepts have been sold to us with altruistic intentions then quickly abused and bastardized, i.e.: civil asset forfeiture was sold to us as to be used only against drug kingpins and other dealers & criminals, and anyone with open eyes can see where that went. (And that's only one example)

Any laws that would need to be passed to bring such a system into place would also be purposely written vaguely as to give great leeway far beyond their original intent.
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True enough.
 
cpwill said:
Your car is probably already run by a computer ;).
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No doubt many computers, but I can override most of them. The steering wheel is still in my control, as are the pedals. As long as the ones meting out fuel to the cylinders continue to do their job, I'm good to go.
 
radcen said:
Every now and then I toy with the idea of buying only older vehicles (early 70s and older).
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I've owned quite a few of those older vehicles, and trust me: The ones they make today are far superior.
 
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