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Deportation Question.

Could you deport them personally or not?

  • Total voters
    55
Dittohead not! said:
Right, in the case when the INS is deporting the parents back to the place they came from, where children are not safe, and yet you're claiming that the parents aren't acting in the best interests of their yet unborn children by moving from that same place where children aren't safe.
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:confused:

Again, your syllogisms are based on false assumptions, thus your conclusions are untrue.

I've highlighted in red one of your invalid assumptions.

And, where the illegal parents came from is not necessarily the region in that country where they choose to return.

Your assumption that the illegal aliens always or usually come from a place where they'll be returning that would be considered by CPS to be unsafe-unacceptable to U.S. citizen children is simply false; you have no knowledge of the "always or usually" circumstances from which they came.

But your bottom line of your argument here is simply to excuse the illegal aliens crimes based on your albeit false assumption that illegal aliens are always coming from a place that's unacceptable-unsafe to CPS for U.S. citizen children.

:roll:

Again, not an excuse to commit crime.

The overwhelming vast majority of those in similar socioeconomic-geopolitical situations to the very tiny fragment of those who choose to become criminals and steal from Americans simply do not choose to become such criminals.

The illegal aliens in the situation you imagine could have applied for asylum .. or, like the vast majority of their fellow countrymen, they could have stayed and worked for change.

CPS doesn't reach in and extract children out of poverty enclaves in America.

I think you exaggerate in imagining what CPS will deem unacceptable.


Dittohead not! said:
OK, here's the post I quoted: Not so, according to your previous post.
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Again, please read more carefully.

I clearly said that the illegal alien parents get first choice. And, they do -- that's a fact.

If they choose to leave their children here, that's their choice.

Only if they choose to take their kids with them does CPS get involved for U.S. citizen children to insure they'll be living in safe-acceptable circumstances.

Stop misquoting me.


Dittohead not! said:
Sure, the government looked the other way while they came here to work, and the all knowing and wise government knows best what to do with the children who were born in the interim between coming here and being sent back home. You have a lot more faith in government than I do.
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I have faith that CPS will do what's best for the children, because that's their job.

Your typical libertarian "big bad government" meme you display here is simply that. :roll:
 
Ontologuy said:
:confused:

Again, your syllogisms are based on false assumptions, thus your conclusions are untrue.

I've highlighted in red one of your invalid assumptions.

And, where the illegal parents came from is not necessarily the region in that country where they choose to return.

Your assumption that the illegal aliens always or usually come from a place where they'll be returning that would be considered by CPS to be unsafe-unacceptable to U.S. citizen children is simply false; you have no knowledge of the "always or usually" circumstances from which they came.

But your bottom line of your argument here is simply to excuse the illegal aliens crimes based on your albeit false assumption that illegal aliens are always coming from a place that's unacceptable-unsafe to CPS for U.S. citizen children.

:roll:

Again, not an excuse to commit crime.

The overwhelming vast majority of those in similar socioeconomic-geopolitical situations to the very tiny fragment of those who choose to become criminals and steal from Americans simply do not choose to become such criminals.

The illegal aliens in the situation you imagine could have applied for asylum .. or, like the vast majority of their fellow countrymen, they could have stayed and worked for change.

CPS doesn't reach in and extract children out of poverty enclaves in America.

I think you exaggerate in imagining what CPS will deem unacceptable.



Again, please read more carefully.

I clearly said that the illegal alien parents get first choice. And, they do -- that's a fact.

If they choose to leave their children here, that's their choice.

Only if they choose to take their kids with them does CPS get involved for U.S. citizen children to insure they'll be living in safe-acceptable circumstances.

Stop misquoting me.



I have faith that CPS will do what's best for the children, because that's their job.

Your typical libertarian "big bad government" meme you display here is simply that. :roll:
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you're the one who posted the statement:

parents couldn't find a safe-acceptable place from CPS's perspective
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Which would have been the same place from where they had originally fled, of course.

So, my assumption is quite correct.

Now, to the assumption I've highlighted in red, that's not always the case, at least not according to your previous posts.
 
Mycroft said:
Current laws are not difficult to enforce at all. Nobody says 12 million people need to be rounded up and deported. I don't know of any law that calls for that kind of action. In fact, I don't think I've heard any politician call for that to happen. But...the fact is, unless one has political ulterior motives...such as Obama has...there really is no reason at all NOT to enforce the laws.
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If 12 million people are in the USA illegally then the law says that all 12 million should be deported. You either believe in allowing some de facto exceptions to universal enforcement or you don't.
 
Hard Truth said:
If 12 million people are in the USA illegally then the law says that all 12 million should be deported. You either believe in allowing exceptions or you don't.
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That's not what is being said in the post you quoted. No one is suggesting they can all be rounded up and deported en masse. The time for exceptions is when they come here, not after they've already jumped the border.
 
jonny5 said:
.... Im loathe to punish employers for hiring people. Punish the people who snuck in, not the people who are just trying to run a business.
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Why?

The people who hire illegal aliens provide an incentive to immigrate illegally, and profit and gain advantage over their law-abiding competitors by paying lower wages to illegal immigrants that they can with legal residents. If anyone is causing harm to our workers it is the businesses that profit from the cheap labor they obtain by exploiting illegal aliens.
 
clownboy said:
That's not what is being said in the post you quoted. No one is suggesting they can all be rounded up and deported en masse. The time for exceptions is when they come here, not after they've already jumped the border.
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Those who say they want the existing laws enforced are calling for the deportation of all of them since that is the current law.

If you don't want to deport all 12 million, what do you want to do? What is the plan?
 
Hard Truth said:
Those who say they want the existing laws enforced are calling for the deportation of all of them since that is the current law.

If you don't want to deport all 12 million, what do you want to do? What is the plan?
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Establish and enforce laws against employers.
Establish and enforce laws against states, cities, counties, and towns giving illegal aliens welfare benefits.
Establish and enforce laws against states giving illegals any forms of identity including drivers licenses.
Illegals will walk out the way they walked in.
 
Hard Truth said:
If 12 million people are in the USA illegally then the law says that all 12 million should be deported. You either believe in allowing some de facto exceptions to universal enforcement or you don't.
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Again...I know of no law that says we have to round up and deport 12 million people.

But there are ways...within current immigration laws to get rid of those people.

1. If someone is discovered and if they are an illegal alien...deport them...especially those who flaunt their illegal status.
2. Strictly enforce laws that forbid illegal aliens from working. Illegal aliens who cannot earn money will not stay.
3. Enforce laws that forbid illegal aliens from benefiting from social benefits.
4. Allow no exceptions from the law.

If we remove the incentives for people who are living in this country illegally, they will self-deport. If we increase border security, we will reduce the number of people able to enter illegally. The result: That 12 million rapidly reduces to a much lower number. And we won't have to send out the goon squads to raid people's homes to do it.


But our problem with illegal aliens is not about existing laws...it's about enforcement of the law. It all starts with the President. As long as we have a President who is not willing to enforce the law, it doesn't matter what laws we have to deal with illegal immigration. And, if we have a President who is willing to turn any number of illegal aliens into legal residents...in opposition to existing laws...then we have elected the wrong person to the job.
 
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Misterveritis said:
Establish and enforce laws against employers.
Establish and enforce laws against states, cities, counties, and towns giving illegal aliens welfare benefits.
Establish and enforce laws against states giving illegals any forms of identity including drivers licenses.
Illegals will walk out the way they walked in.
Click to expand...

Which states, cities, counties, and towns give illegal aliens welfare benefits? I don't think there are any.

FYI-drivers licenses for illegal aliens were given to reduce the number of alien drivers who did not necessarilly know the rules and did not pass any of the tests. The licenses specify that the person is not a legal resident.
 
Hard Truth said:
Those who say they want the existing laws enforced are calling for the deportation of all of them since that is the current law.

If you don't want to deport all 12 million, what do you want to do? What is the plan?
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Again you misunderstand. Yes, they should ALL be deported. Just as ALL rapists should go to jail. We have to catch them first and sheer numbers prevent rounding them all up en masse and doing one huge deportation. The dodge by pro illegals is to say there are just to many of them to deport.

The plan has been detailed in these threads many, many, many times before.
 
Hard Truth said:
Which states, cities, counties, and towns give illegal aliens welfare benefits? I don't think there are any.

FYI-drivers licenses for illegal aliens were given to reduce the number of alien drivers who did not necessarilly know the rules and did not pass any of the tests. The licenses specify that the person is not a legal resident.
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Oregon, Beaverton. Walk into any store in the Allen area and you'll witness illegals using their benefits cards first hand.
 
Mycroft said:
Again...I know of no law that says we have to round up and deport 12 million people.

But there are ways...within current immigration laws to get rid of those people.

1. If someone is discovered and if they are an illegal alien...deport them...especially those who flaunt their illegal status....
Click to expand...

So, instead of specifying criteria for allowing some people to delay deportation (Obama's policy), you want it to be a fairly random process based on who happens to get caught or fails to remain in the shadows. Targetting people who are publicly visible endangers illegal workers who attempt to stand up against dangerous or exploitive work conditions.
 
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clownboy said:
Again you misunderstand. Yes, they should ALL be deported. Just as ALL rapists should go to jail. We have to catch them first and sheer numbers prevent rounding them all up en masse and doing one huge deportation. The dodge by pro illegals is to say there are just to many of them to deport.

The plan has been detailed in these threads many, many, many times before.
Click to expand...

So you do want all 12 million deported, just not all at once. That's honest.
 
So, instead of specifying criteria for allowing some people to delay deportation (Obama's policy), you want it to be a fairly random process based on who happens to get caught or fails to remain in the shadows. Targetting people who are publicly visible endangers illegal workers who attempt to stand up against dangerous or exploitive work conditions.
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So? This is why criminals hide their activities, because they are guilty of a crime and afraid of getting caught. Don't care if they are subject to dangerous and exploitive work, they shouldn't be here working in the first place.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Anarchal extremism? Is that what you call limited government? No wonder the growth of the federal government is out of control. They've been successful at keeping the border open ever since the Eisenhower administration. In an ideal world. In the real world, however, the consent of the powerful and wealthy is far and away more important. He's more likely to be an employer of illegal aliens. Certainly not the wealthy and powerful nor their minions in Washington. and the government that has been making it possible for them to come for the past six decades.
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Your one-liners are laced with your "big bad government" meme. :roll:

Regardless, no, the people telling people in their home country that if they come here they'll get jobs is their fellow countrymen illegal aliens.

Sadly, a number of illegal aliens come here expecting an easy-find of jobs .. and there isn't that at all, especially post-recession.

The unscrupulous employers of illegal aliens are simply not the ones spreading the word. They don't have to. Which, is a bit sad, because when there simply aren't even jobs for illegal aliens, no one is telling them that.

Regardless, it's really, really important to stop whining for the criminal illegal aliens and the damage they and they alone relevantly do to their children.

They are simply a tiny fragment of those in other countries with similar socioeconomic-geopolitical conditions that don't come here to break the law. The illegal aliens represent a fringe criminal element who commit all the crimes I've previously told you about.

They're criminals.

They deserve punishment.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

End of story.
 
southerndemocrat said:
.... ...
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Ontologuy said:
....
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The OP Disingenuously Framed the issue to get a Pro-ILLEGAL result.

1. Instead of just asking if they should be deported, he asked if you would do it PERSONALLY. (See how well that would work with ie, death penalty).

2. He used an UNrepresentative Family (A 'Family' at all, in fact) that's been here at least 15 years (has a 13 yr old after being here a couple of years).
IOW, since at least 1999, who is UNrepresentative Time-wise/situation-wise, and probably would have been Amnestied already under the Bush Admins!!

3. Southern Democrat, just as Disingenuously as his framing, ducked all the Meatier/est replies.
ie.
Mine on pg 7
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/210219-deportation-question-7.html#post1064017805
Ontologuys on top of pg 21
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/210219-deportation-question-21.html#post1064022255
How about answering Those of us who put in the time for a thoughtful response?

4. This is just another example of Polls Meant to Shade a result with Loaded questions.
This section is the most abused by far.
 
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Hard Truth said:
Mycroft said:
Again...I know of no law that says we have to round up and deport 12 million people.

But there are ways...within current immigration laws to get rid of those people.

1. If someone is discovered and if they are an illegal alien...deport them...especially those who flaunt their illegal status.
QUOTE]

So, instead of specifying criteria for allowing some people to delay deportation (Obama's policy), you want it to be a fairly random process based on who happens to get caught or fails to remain in the shadows. Targetting people who are publicly visible endangers illegal workers who attempt to stand up against dangerous or exploitive work conditions.
Click to expand...

Illegal aliens have no right for government protection against dangerous or exploitive work conditions...in fact, they have NO right to work conditions of ANY kind. They are not allowed to work in this country.

If illegal aliens want to publicly demonstrate or protest anything, ICE should detain them, ask for identification that shows they are legal to be in our country and they should have a fleet of buses standing by to transport them to the other side of the border...immediately.

And I've said nothing about a random process. ICE should have ongoing investigations to locate concentrations of illegal aliens...such as at companies that hire them.

I don't think very many will remain in the shadows if ICE continually shine the light of the law on those shadows.
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Dittohead not! said:
you're the one who posted the statement: Which would have been the same place from where they had originally fled, of course. So, my assumption is quite correct. Now, to the assumption I've highlighted in red, that's not always the case, at least not according to your previous posts.
Click to expand...
:roll:

Your purposeful misconstruence that you're holding on so tightly to .. is obvious.

Regardless, you have no valid winning argument in the matters we've been discussing.
 
clownboy said:
Oregon, Beaverton. Walk into any store in the Allen area and you'll witness illegals using their benefits cards first hand.
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Do you have any evidence that they obtained their benefits cards legally? My google search did not reveal any benefits for illegal aliens except this reference: "...Instead of spending time devising benefits for illegal aliens, Oregon legislators should do much more to discourage illegal immigration. Benefits to illegal aliens such as in-state tuition and driving privileges legitimize illegal immigration and entice more of it...."* In-state tuition may count as a benefit, but the fact that it does not mention any others indicates that there aren't any benefits such as welfare or EBT cards.

*Oregon can help stop illegal immigration | OregonLive.com
 
clownboy said:
So? This is why criminals hide their activities, because they are guilty of a crime and afraid of getting caught. Don't care if they are subject to dangerous and exploitive work, they shouldn't be here working in the first place.
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Isn't it amazing to watch others justify things that by law are wrong? They first must make the argument on the basis that ignores laws. Then they turn it on you when you have respect for the laws and then claim you to either be a racist, bigot, inhumane, on and on and on. These tactics are getting old Either we are a country of laws or we aren't.
 
Hard Truth said:
Which states, cities, counties, and towns give illegal aliens welfare benefits? I don't think there are any.
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If there are none currently then this should be an easily passed law. In fact we can make the penalties stiff, say a month in jail for every person in the chain of command from the clerk up to the governor for each illegal found in possession of state welfare benefits. We can do the same for the city who gives illegals benefits.

Right now anchor babies get loads of goodies which of course are used by the illegals.

FYI-drivers licenses for illegal aliens were given to reduce the number of alien drivers who did not necessarilly know the rules and did not pass any of the tests. The licenses specify that the person is not a legal resident.
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Right. Jail the clerk who gives the license. Jail the department manager. Jail the head of the organization. Jail the governor.
 
Ontologuy said:
:roll:

Your purposeful misconstruence that you're holding on so tightly to .. is obvious.

Regardless, you have no valid winning argument in the matters we've been discussing.
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Sounds like we're down to the did too, did not level.
Your posts say what they say.

Do too.
 
Mycroft said:
Hard Truth said:
Illegal aliens have no right for government protection against dangerous or exploitive work conditions...in fact, they have NO right to work conditions of ANY kind.
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which is why they're in demand to fill unpleasant/difficult/poorly paying jobs like bringing in the harvests or making hotel beds.
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Dittohead not! said:
which is why they're in demand to fill unpleasant/difficult/poorly paying jobs like bringing in the harvests or making hotel beds.
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Yes...and as long as those responsible for enforcing our laws allow employers to hire them, that won't change.
 
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