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Deportation Question.

Could you deport them personally or not?

  • Total voters
    55
SouthernDemocrat said:
A man and his wife sneak across the border illegally from Mexico. After they live here for a couple of years they have a couple of kids. The kids are now age 9 and 13 and have lived here their whole lives. They don't speak much Spanish. They are enrolled in school and like all kids have friends and play sports and so on. The parents however have never obtained legal status despite the fact they have lived and worked here for 15 years.

It's entirely up to you, could you personally walk into their home, arrest the parents in front of their kids, bring them up before an immigration hearing where you sit as judge, and then deport them back to Mexico?
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If I were an INS officer or a DHS officer, yes, I would arrest and deport this family.

I would do so because, that's my job.

I would want to do so, in addition to it being my job, because I'm an American citizen and I respect justice for all.

I, not being subject to having a victim-mentality stimulated within me, do not have a bleeding-heart that would prevent me from doing what's right.

Would I feel sad for those in the moment, the parents having been arrested for their crimes, the kids frightened and separated from their parents? Yes, I would.

But, that would not stop me from doing what's right.

I would feel my feelings, and I would let them pass.

It's important to understand in this matter that the parents and parents alone put their children in jeopardy of being frightened and separated from them.

They trespassed into America, forged false identities or stole the identities of others, illegally obtained employment, committed violations of U.S. Customs, committed other related frauds, some of which are felonies, all in the process of stealing jobs, classrooms, living-space, road-space, and other resources in America from the American citizens to which those resources belong.

If anyone has any blame to place for the sad situation, it should rightly be placed on the parents and no one else.

The vast overwhelming majority of people throughout the world in similar socioeconomic-geopolitical circumstances chose not to come to America and commit on-site crimes.

The very tiny fraction of those who did choose to come here and commit on-site crimes is well within the standard crime percentage, and in no way casts doubt on the validity of the laws against those crimes.

For justice to be served, justice for all, those committing crimes against people, as illegal aliens do, need to be apprehended and brought to justice. When convicted, they rightly need to make restitution, serve prison time, and then be deported upon release.

That we choose to simply require they surrender their belongings and the jobs they've stolen, and suspend imprisonment, quickly returning them to their children for family deportation, is simply the best we can do in the name of justice for all.

For some, doing the right thing is too difficult, as their unresolved family of origin issues in which they still experience their victim-mentality can be stimulated with pandering rhetoric a la President Obama's speech, and they act out the "corrective emotional experience", in which if they can project themselves on "the kids" and spare them "victimizing anguish", then their own victimization "never happened".

The "corrective emotional experience", however, is a futile endeavor, because it can obviously never happen as the time-oblivious unconscious commands; you can't go back and change the past.

Of course, there are those who know that arresting and deporting this family is the right thing to do, but it runs counter to their preconceived ideology, so they feign outrage to the deportation.

Regardless, justice for all is a foundational American value.

It can only be served when criminals are brought to justice and people get their belongings returned to them (in this case, their jobs, classrooms, etc.).

We can't allow our unresolved family of origin issues or preconceived ideologies to stand in the way of justice for all.
 
kamikaze483 said:
If the children were born here, they would be American citizens and not subject to deportation.
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If the children are underage they stay with their parents in deportation, even if their parents are illegal aliens and the children are American citizens.

They have to reach a certain age and then apply for emancipation.

Once they have obtained emancipation, then they can choose to be in America by virtue of their citizenship.

There are other situations that can cause parents and children to be separated.

But this is not one of those situations.
 
Ontologuy said:
If the children are underage they stay with their parents in deportation, even if their parents are illegal aliens and the children are American citizens.

They have to reach a certain age and then apply for emancipation.

Once they have obtained emancipation, then they can choose to be in America by virtue of their citizenship.

There are other situations that can cause parents and children to be separated.

But this is not one of those situations.
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I am not sure that is the case. It seems they are being separated.

US: Parents of American Children Summarily Deported | Human Rights Watch

snip/ Just after he was deported to Honduras in September 2014, “Jesus R.” told Human Rights Watch that he had lived a total of twenty years in the United States and has five US citizen children. He said he had been deported four times and had been convicted of illegal re-entry but that he would try to cross back into the United States. “I need to be with my children,” he said. “My youngest was born and I don’t know him.”
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kamikaze483 said:
I am not sure that is the case. It seems they are being separated.

US: Parents of American Children Summarily Deported | Human Rights Watch
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This site simply does not cite specifics to prove its points.

If we were to imagine, the situation with the person you reference is that, if indeed he has underage children here in America who are American citizens, then their mothers must likely still be here in America.

If he was arrested and deported and didn't tell anyone then he was the sole parent of American citizen underage children in America and then decided to cry "I have 'anchor babies' in America -- you have to let me in!", that's not action to keep him from his children, it's doubting the veracity of his claim.

Regardless, when parents are arrested and they don't tell anyone they have children here, and friends or relatives care for those kids when the parents are deported, that's not separating the parents from their kids.

When illegal alien parents are arrested and their underage kids are known, they go with their parents back to their parents' citizenship country.

That's simply the way it is.
 
braindrain said:
Apparently there are quite a few ways as we average about 1 million immigrants receiving legal status every single year. In fact I am pretty sure that we take on more immigrants than pretty much any other country in the world.
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We are a nation of immigrants, to be sure. A million does sound like a lot, nearly a third of one percent of the country. Compared to the numbers that would like to come here, it's not many.
 
APACHERAT said:
The law is the law, send them to prison and after they serve their time DEPORT them.
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For the love of God, please tell me you don't think a person is arrested and sent to jail/prison for being in the country without authorization...
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
A man and his wife sneak across the border illegally from Mexico. After they live here for a couple of years they have a couple of kids. The kids are now age 9 and 13 and have lived here their whole lives. They don't speak much Spanish. They are enrolled in school and like all kids have friends and play sports and so on. The parents however have never obtained legal status despite the fact they have lived and worked here for 15 years.

It's entirely up to you, could you personally walk into their home, arrest the parents in front of their kids, bring them up before an immigration hearing where you sit as judge, and then deport them back to Mexico?
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Yes. What other questions do you have?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I am all for strengthening security at the border and am closer to the mainstream Republican position on illegal immigration than I am the mainstream Democratic position on it, but despite the fact the parents broke the law in coming here and live here illegally, I don't think I could sleep at night knowing I put a family through that by deporting them. That I think is the fundamental problem with dealing with illegal immigration, many times deporting people does indeed break up families and while its easy to take a hardline in the abstract, its hard to do it if it was actually on you.
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And, of course you do not care at all for the American citizens who had wealth taken from them, perhaps had their wages suppressed, who had to pay more taxes to support their illegal activity.

They are invaders. Give them reason to leave.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I think that this is an example of something that many people can support in the abstract - deporting illegal immigrants regardless of how long they have been here or what their family situation is here, but few people could do it if was all on them as it would be far too messy and in the end they have to sleep at night.

If it was entirely my decision, looking some kids in the eye as I tear their family apart is simply not something I could live with myself having done and I would suspect that many people that vote yes in this poll could not actually do it themselves either.
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Their children can go with them.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Not necessarily as their country of origin has to agree to take the kids. Mexico might would but that doesn't mean that every country someone might illegally come here from would.
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The kids can sneak into Mexico.

End the anchor baby doctrine.
 
Misterveritis said:
The kids can sneak into Mexico.

End the anchor baby doctrine.
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Be specific. You want to abandon the principal that someone born in the US is a citizen?
 
Grand Mal said:
Be specific. You want to abandon the principal that someone born in the US is a citizen?
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Yes, I want to abandon the principle that someone born to illegal aliens is a US citizen. If the parents had no right to be here then the child has no right to citizenship. Boot 'em.
 
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Misterveritis said:
Yes, I want to abandon the principle that someone born to illegal aliens is not a US citizen. If the parents had no right to be here then the child has no right to citizenship. Boot 'em.
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So, you would repeal the 14th. Amendment?
 
Misterveritis said:
It does not require repeal but I would not oppose repeal given that its usefulness has ended.
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It is still "useful" for the protection of liberty.

and, it does not require repeal, not unless someone wants to make a law that people born in the USA aren't American citizens due to their parentage.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It is still "useful" for the protection of liberty.

and, it does not require repeal, not unless someone wants to make a law that people born in the USA aren't American citizens due to their parentage.
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Not really. Our liberty is no longer protected. It never should have applied to illegal aliens.
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, you would repeal the 14th. Amendment?
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It wouldn't require repealing the entire amendment. All they need to do is pass another amendment repealing that one specific part.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat it: I would not eliminate it completely. I would modify it to be that one must be born here AND have at least one biological parent already a citizen.
 
radcen said:
It wouldn't require repealing the entire amendment. All they need to do is pass another amendment repealing that one specific part.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat it: I would not eliminate it completely. I would modify it to be that one must be born here AND have at least one biological parent already a citizen.
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What specific part? What amendment has been written nullifying a provision of an another amendment?
 
Mycroft said:
shrug...

If you don't LIKE the law...CHANGE the law. Don't IGNORE the law.
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That's all nice like apple pie, but the books are full of arcane, stupid, unenforceable and not practical to enforce laws, that can't readily be changed. Our immigration laws are an interesting example of such. You can't round up 12 million people and deport them (current immigration laws are not practical to enforce) and the immigration bill that is currently before congress is example of how laws can not be readily changed....
 
upsideguy said:
That's all nice like apple pie, but the books are full of arcane, stupid, unenforceable and not practical to enforce laws, that can't readily be changed. Our immigration laws are an interesting example of such. You can't round up 12 million people and deport them (current immigration laws are not practical to enforce) and the immigration bill that is currently before congress is example of how laws can not be readily changed....
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Current laws are not difficult to enforce at all. Nobody says 12 million people need to be rounded up and deported. I don't know of any law that calls for that kind of action. In fact, I don't think I've heard any politician call for that to happen. But...the fact is, unless one has political ulterior motives...such as Obama has...there really is no reason at all NOT to enforce the laws.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
.
It's entirely up to you, could you personally walk into their home, arrest the parents in front of their kids, bring them up before an immigration hearing where you sit as judge, and then deport them back to Mexico?
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Absofrickinlutely, I could.
 
1750Texan said:
What specific part? What amendment has been written nullifying a provision of an another amendment?
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Really?

The part regarding birth rite citizenship. Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was obvious considering the context of the thread and the wording of my post.

The 21st repealed the 18th in it's entirety. You ask the question as if it would be impossible to repeal/nullify a portion of another amendment. What makes you think this couldn't be done? What makes you think that, once enacted, an amendment is unalterable and carved in stone?
 
It is important to understand how U.S. law works with respect to arrests and deportation of parents with minor children.

If both parents are arrested at once or the only parent the child has in America is arrested, the children go to child protective services (CPS).

CPS works with the parents to determine if the children have relatives or parental preferred people in the U.S. with whom they can stay in the interim, and that's where they're placed pending deportation. Otherwise they are placed in temporary foster care pending deportation.

When deportation occurs, the parents get to choose if they want their children to go with them.

If they choose to have their children go with them in deportation, and the children are not U.S. citizens, the children go with them.

If they choose to have their children go with them in deportation, and the children are U.S. citizens, then CPS determines if the environment to which they are going is safe-acceptable, and, if it is, then the children either go with them during deportation or they are sent to their parents once their parents are established back in their country of citizenship, but, if it's determined that the environment is unsafe-unacceptable, then the children are placed in more permanent foster care while the parents are deported and a period of time passes for the parents to get established in a safe-acceptable environment.

If the parents choose not to have their children go with them in deportation, then the children are placed in foster care by CPS. If the children are not U.S. citizens, then their country of citizenship may call to have them brought to the country later, or the parents may call for the children. If the children are U.S. citizens, then an attempt is made to find permanent homes for them here in America. If the parents don't call for them within a specified amount of time, then they are considered abandoned, and may be adopted here in the U.S.

It's important to remember that the parents brought any family-member hardships upon themselves; it's not the fault of any branch of the U.S. government -- it's solely the fault of the parents who knew this would rightly happen if they got caught committing their crimes.

The primary reason there are thousands of children separated from their parents who were deported is because the parents either chose to leave their kids here either temporarily or permanently, again, for which they and they alone are at fault.

The secondary reason there are thousands of children separated from their parents who were deported is because the parents couldn't find a safe-acceptable place from CPS's perspective to allow U.S. citizen children to go with their parents.

This is all very, very sad.

It is important, however, to understand that the sadness of it is no excuse of the law. The parents violated many U.S. laws, some of which are felonies, in stealing American citizens' jobs, classrooms, living-space, road-space, etc. .. including, clearly and obviously, child endangerment.

It is simply wrong to point the finger at U.S. law-enforcement and criminal justice agencies.

They must carry out their duties in a country that operates under rule of law.

If we were to make such undue exceptions because people suffer when criminals get caught, then we'd have to do it all the time to be fair .. and we'd have a dictatorship, not rule of law.

Again, the illegal aliens only have themselves to blame, and no one else.

Another reason why it's so important that we beef up border security so that trespassing can no longer occur, thereby eventually putting an end to this tragic aspect caused solely by the illegal aliens themselves.
 
Grand Mal said:
Be specific. You want to abandon the principal that someone born in the US is a citizen?
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Actually yes. Depends on parentage. If one parent is an American citizen, then the child should be eligible for full citizenship when they reach majority age. If both parents are not, then no. Just like everywhere else in the world.
 
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