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Deportation Question.

Could you deport them personally or not?


  • Total voters
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it always seemed to me the easiest and cheapest way to solve the issue is to make the economic climate unfavorable to attract undocumented workers.

make hiring them a capital crime?
 
Easy argument to make when you were one of the 4.4% of people on this earth lucky enough to be born American. I suppose that took a lot of bravery on your part to choose to be born here rather than in some third world ****hole. :roll: Of course, being you made that choice to be born here, you now get to be entitled to judge those that weren't and call them cowards when they come here looking for work and a better life.

Wow, you really have a dim view of South American nations.
 
OK..... so you are all in favor of rounding up anyone that has had oral sex or anal sex in Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and Utah and bringing them before a judge to "face the music" as, after all, breaking the law is breaking the law, people deserve to be held accountable for their actions, period

12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling

There are many arcane, stupid, unenforceable and not practical to enforce laws on the books. In all things judgement must be applied....

Most of those laws are unenforceable and people would never be held accountable for them, just like the old laws on the books about having to run ahead of cars with lanterns. All it would take is a single case being prosecuted to have the laws removed from the books. The reason they're still there is because nobody is ever arrested for them so the laws are never challenged. Immigration is different, people can be and are arrested and deported.

Try again.
 
Appeal to humanity is what it is. The question stands, if it was your decision and you had to get your hands dirty, could you do it.



Bro, I'm not going to lie to you... it would be hard. We got a lot of Mexicans around here, most of them are decent hardworking family types, and I know some of them have to be illegal.

But if we're just going to ignore the law, we're not a nation of laws are we? If we're not going to enforce citizenship and border issues, why bother having a border? Well we wouldn't have a country long for one thing...


I'd hate to be the one to do it, but yeah I'd do it if I had to. I think it is necessary. I don't think a sovereign nation survives long by allowing anybody and everybody to cross their border, stay as long as they want, use stolen or fake ID and SSN's to masquerade as a citizen or card holder, breaking the law for their own purposes, when there IS a legal avenue for doing these things.
 
Anti-immigrant advocates are unaware of, or choose to ignore, the fact that it is virtually impossible for a poor person to immigrate to the USA legally. It costs tens of thousands of dollars and several years of waiting while the potential immigrant's children go hungry and live with the threat of violence.

Why would a country want poor people to come there and be a drain on society?

Maybe these people could afford it if they paid to immigrate instead of paying the coyotes.
 
Another false claim. Those who oppose illegal aliens are not "anti-immigrant advocates" - that's a crock tossed up by those who advocate amnesty for criminals. Most people on the right fully support legal immigration where it improves the economy and social well being of the country.

If it takes too long and costs too much, that's readily fixable without abandoning the rule of law.

It is like that for a reason.

If you are from Mexico you can't gt a visa unless you can prove you have enough assets in Mexico to make sure you will go back at come point.

The only reason poor people go to the US is to take advantage of the country and its people.
 
It is more likely the kids would be placed with a close relative. They would be American citizens and not subject to deportation.

That's entirely up to the parents. In practice you're right. They leave their kids with someone here figuring they can just cross illegally again and now they can use the sob story that they are just trying to get back to their children. SD will buy it.
 
And your Tiny Violin scenario is PRECISELY WHY we have a problem and keep having it.
Putrid liberality.
Dozens of sympathy amnesties rewarding Criminals.

Someone sneaks across and then claims "reunite" or "tear apart" brutally separated family.
So parents sneak across.. kids sneak across.. then EVERY Extended family has a new 'right.
It's estimated 11 million will become 33 Million with their/YOUR new 'rights'.

And your scenario is to the LEFT side of fair
MOST immigrants haven't lived here that long and don't have 9 and 13 yr old kids...
Whose Education and Healthcare WE have been paying for since they work Off the books.
And most have More than Two kids.
Many send their illegal money back across the border.

Virtually ALL are BIG Net losers for the economy, in that even on the books, they pay NO net Federal Income tax.
Even the famous "47%" of legals pay no net Federal Income taxes save for FICA and are net losers.

So how good is it for the economy if they make 25K OFF the books and send 1/3 back to Mexico/etc.
A Family of 4-7 OFF the books ILLEGALS probably costs the economy/US-Taxpayers $100,000 a Year in healthcare, edu, roads, prisons, police, border patrol, etc.
Even ON the books, Big Net losers.

Your whole BS sympathetic scenario is unfair.
What about what happened THIS yr.. people sending their kids in first.. then we get the 'reunite'/orphan whining.
Most are more recent, many came across JUST to have kids.
WHAT ABOUT Them?
ANSWER that.
Why DISINGENUOUSLY present only your 15-yr-here Scenario?

Deport?
No.
E-verify.
NO USA citizenship, NO JOBS. Period.
(employER sanctions)
You come across illegally you you Cannot get a job and can NEVER be made Legal.
PERIOD.

We don't need Border Patrol Nor 'deport'.
just Guaranteed Nothing to [illegally] come for.
Game over.

You just perpetuate the rolling amnesty/rewarding Illegals problem.
You reward criminality merely because they have stayed hidden longer.

When the people are on the Mexican side of the river, life is pretty much worthless, theirs and their children's.

once they cross though, life has much more meaning.

I wonder why.
 
it always seemed to me the easiest and cheapest way to solve the issue is to make the economic climate unfavorable to attract undocumented workers.

make hiring them a capital crime?

I'm okay with that last as long as it is the same crime for the one trying to be hired. </tongue in cheek>
 
As I have pointed out in an earlier post, all crimes are not equal, and our justice system recognizes that. Judges routinely consider the circumstances surrounding a crime when determining the penalties / sentence for that crime. The reason why I bring up the emotional aspects of this is that we are not robots, thus as humans the emotional aspects comes into play. The question is not whether the law says they can be deported, the question is whether if you had to do the dirty work and you have to make the decisions, could you do it. That by definition is a question of conscience. There is no right or wrong answers other than lame attempts at rationalizing it.

But in your scenario, these 2 people have been working for 15 years with somebody else's SS numbers thereby causing huge financial damage to that individual.

I think any judge with that case in front of them would send them to jail extremely fast, kids or not.
 
It is like that for a reason.

If you are from Mexico you can't gt a visa unless you can prove you have enough assets in Mexico to make sure you will go back at come point.

The only reason poor people go to the US is to take advantage of the country and its people.

I don't disagree - in Canada, we allow entry to about 250,000 immigrants each year - the equivalent in the US would be 2,500,000 based on our comparative populations. In Canada, many of those immigrants are financially attractive, those who are bringing $500,000 plus in investment dollars with them when they come. Another large chunk are those that bring employment skills sorely lacking in the Canadian labour pool. The rest are made up of family unifications, with very strict family sponsorship obligations, and a large number of refugees from the middle east, southeast Asia, etc.

We need and want immigration in Canada - it's a requirement for us to maintain a healthy social safety net with sufficient young and productive workers paying taxes to survive. But we also don't take on all the problems of the world by opening our borders to everyone in need - it's economically and socially impossible. America needs to find a balance they can live with.
 
Wow, you really have a dim view of South American nations.

It depends on the country. Nicaragua and Honduras for example have a per-capita GDP of less than 10% of ours. Not exactly lands of opportunity. Hell the median per-capita GDP of Latin American countries is only about 22% of ours here.
 
Couldn't we show we are serious by really going after those that employ illegal immigrants and doing a better job of securing our border? It seems like we could do that while at the same time recognizing that situations do exist like the one described in the opening post. I think its realistic and practical to go after those that employ illegals and securing our border, I don't its realistic to think we could deport everyone that is already here though.

Is that like trickle down economics, ,just hoping that the illegals will go back to their country if they can't find work?
 
It depends on the country. Nicaragua and Honduras for example have a per-capita GDP of less than 10% of ours. Not exactly lands of opportunity. Hell the median per-capita GDP of Latin American countries is only about 22% of ours here.

Heh, and COL is on par with that, making it a wash.
 
it always seemed to me the easiest and cheapest way to solve the issue is to make the economic climate unfavorable to attract undocumented workers.

make hiring them a capital crime?

Arizona tried just that in SB 1070. I wrote a paper detailing just what each different section of that law did, and roughly half of it was devoted to just what you're calling for. One section after another addressed different categories of employers--people who hire day laborers, corporations, employers of live-in domestics, etc. The law contained very detailed schemes for e-verification, record keeping, filing of reports, etc., and set out a wide range of punishments for employers who violated its requirements. The penalties included permanent loss of business licenses, large fines, and even worse.

And yet this damned liar of a President sued Arizona over the law, and got parts of it struck down in the Supreme Court. Why? Because the Man Who Would Be King does not want this country's immigration laws enforced. President Pinocchio's actions toward Arizona exposed the standard bleat that proposals to prevent illegal immigration are unfair because they pick on poor brown people, while giving businesses a free ride, for what it is--leftist propaganda.
 
If the kids are born in the us are they not citizens. There parents are illegals but the kids are citizens of the us And only the us. They cant be deported. If the kids are citizens i wouldnt deport both parents.

Anchor babies i think they are calles
 
Maybe you don't hear those things because they are two separate and distinct issues - immigration has nothing to do with illegal aliens. The left wants to conflate them in their never ending need to demonize the other side's motives. Didn't take long to get the racism charges out.

The issues are related because the near impossibility of legally immigrating if you are poor encourages illegal immigration.
 
Should we stop jailing people who commit identity fraud, rape, or (fill in any criminal violation you like that gets' jail time) due to the fact that doing so would restrict or remove parental access to children?

Children who are American citizens can travel back with their parents until they reach the age of majority at which point they are American citizens and can come right back here.

Illegal immigration is not a felony. No one goes to jail for being in the country illegally, not unless they've done something else too. Should we start jailing people for minor crimes now? We already have more prisoners per capita than anyone else.
 
So because Latinos in poverty happen to have a convenient land route to illegally enter the country, they're doing and honorable thing and America should just accept them? Third world poverty doesn't only exist in Guatemala, etc. Is it America's responsibility to provide a comfortable life to all the world's children of poverty, or just the ones who can walk over the border?

perhaps just for the ones who have already walked over the border with the full complicity of the US federal government, and who have established themselves here as de facto Americans with children who are natural born citizens.

But, no, of course we can't absorb the whole third world.
 
In poverty? When it takes thousands of dollars to coyote up? How far will that get them and their families in their host country? Maybe to a safe and more prosperous part of their host country, or to one of the other South American countries a hell of a lot closer than the US.

Oh, yes, for sure, the great wealth of illegal immigrants is well known.
 
I don't feel guilty at all for being born here. However, I do empathize with those that were not so lucky. I guess that's the difference between us on this.

You have mistaken my emotion. I have great compassion for those who struggle, no matter where they live.

I have zero compassion for those who come here illegally, with no concern at all about the difficult situation they chose to put their families in, who demand I eat their choices and take care of them, and then scream about what might happen to their children they personally chose to put in a terrible situation.

Perhaps that's the difference between us. I see reality, and you see something else.
 
A man and his wife sneak across the border illegally from Mexico. After they live here for a couple of years they have a couple of kids. The kids are now age 9 and 13 and have lived here their whole lives. They don't speak much Spanish. They are enrolled in school and like all kids have friends and play sports and so on. The parents however have never obtained legal status despite the fact they have lived and worked here for 15 years.

It's entirely up to you, could you personally walk into their home, arrest the parents in front of their kids, bring them up before an immigration hearing where you sit as judge, and then deport them back to Mexico?

Depends... do they pay taxes and were they good contributing citizens? If so they do massive community service, pay fines and vote Republican. If not deport them that day with the kids and tell the kids that their parents are law breakers that just screwed up their lives...

...and your idea of a "couple of years" equalling 15 years differs from my take on what a couple of years means...
 
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