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Deportation Question.

Could you deport them personally or not?


  • Total voters
    55
I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Consider this, American citizen parents in Guatemala have a child. That child has US citizenship AND Guatemalan citizenship. Since this is a minor, the child's actual citizenship follows the parents' choice. But you know in that situation, when returning to the US the parents must file for the child's US citizenship, renouncing his/her Guatemalan citizenship.

Now Mexico and every other South American nation doesn't require that last part, the MINOR child inherit the citizenship of their parents AND their birth country.

So again, this particular plea for sympathy isn't working.

I know how the system works, we did foreign adoption twice. I would like to see some evidence that every other South American country grants citizenship based on the citizenship of the parents even if that child is born and lived their entire life in a different country. As every country has its own laws in regards to citizenship, I find it hard to believe that every single Latin American country allows minors to inherit the citizenship of the parents.
 
I know how the system works, we did foreign adoption twice. I would like to see some evidence that every other South American country grants citizenship based on the citizenship of the parents even if that child is born and lived their entire life in a different country. As every country has its own laws in regards to citizenship, I find it hard to believe that every single Latin American country allows minors to inherit the citizenship of the parents.

Everyone born in Colombia acquires Colombian nationality, as long as at least one parent is either a Colombian citizen or resident in Colombia.

A child born outside Colombia who has at least one Colombian parent can be registered as a Colombian national by birth, either upon returning to Colombia (for residents) or at a consulate abroad (for non-residents).

Colombian nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can wiki all the other South American nations yourself. The policy is the same throughout the region.
 
Absolutely I could and I would. Breaking the law is breaking the law, people deserve to be held accountable for their actions, period.

OK..... so you are all in favor of rounding up anyone that has had oral sex or anal sex in Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and Utah and bringing them before a judge to "face the music" as, after all, breaking the law is breaking the law, people deserve to be held accountable for their actions, period

12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling

There are many arcane, stupid, unenforceable and not practical to enforce laws on the books. In all things judgement must be applied....
 
Anti-immigrant advocates are unaware of, or choose to ignore, the fact that it is virtually impossible for a poor person to immigrate to the USA legally. It costs tens of thousands of dollars and several years of waiting while the potential immigrant's children go hungry and live with the threat of violence.

Forget a poor person. In some cases it's not even possible for the middle class.

I am immigrating to probably one of the toughest countries to immigrate to, and I think the only one that's tougher is the United States.

The only reason this was possible for me is because I was able to absorb what could have potentially been an enormous financial loss. I could have been out for all that money and wound up being denied anyway, unable to recoup any of what I spent. They expect you to just blindly gamble. This whole process took me a year, and that is considering that I was able to meet the demands of the process immediately every step of the way. Not everyone is so lucky. If you have to work your way through it, it can easily take 2 years, or 3, or more.

Even some people of means would not have been able to take that risk. It splits up families all the time -- even middle class families -- in cases of cross-national relationships. And I see absolutely no reason why wealth should be the measure of one's fitness to be a good resident or citizen. It's stupid tribal, classist nonsense.

And immigrating to the US is even worse than what I just went through.

We give people citizenship simply for being born, but reject decent people perfectly able to support themselves and split up families across oceans or continents simply for not being wealthy. I see no valid reason to reject someone of good legal standing, self-supporting ability, and who speaks the language passably well. I see no reason a global world shouldn't encourage global citizenry. I see no reason to split children from one of their parents, possibly for years. I see no reason to cut off one's nose to spite their face, rejecting motivated young talent who want to come to this country and make it, simply because they haven't yet.

These people have no idea what it's like. It's just blind tribalism and fear of some kind of imaginary "other." The law is not always right, and does not always deserve to stand. This is one of those cases. Our laws are those of a previous century and they need to join the 21st. Blindly supporting stupid and harmful laws is intellectually lazy and mindless, lacking any sort of critical thinking, and is the death of progress for any society.
 
A man and his wife sneak across the border illegally from Mexico. After they live here for a couple of years they have a couple of kids. The kids are now age 9 and 13 and have lived here their whole lives. They don't speak much Spanish. They are enrolled in school and like all kids have friends and play sports and so on. The parents however have never obtained legal status despite the fact they have lived and worked here for 15 years.

It's entirely up to you, could you personally walk into their home, arrest the parents in front of their kids, bring them up before an immigration hearing where you sit as judge, and then deport them back to Mexico?

I would prefer sending them to prison first before deporting them.IF they want their kids then they are free to take their kids with them. I do not care how long they allegedly managed to evade deportation or if they popped out some kids. Those things are irrelevant. If I robbed Fort Knox and evaded authorities for several years I do not get to keep the gold and go unpunished. If I borrowed money from you and weaseled out of paying for you for several years my debt to you is not canceled. If you hid an affair from your wife for several years it doesn't make that affair kosher and alright in her eyes.
 
Anti-immigrant advocates are unaware of, or choose to ignore, the fact that it is virtually impossible for a poor person to immigrate to the USA legally. It costs tens of thousands of dollars and several years of waiting while the potential immigrant's children go hungry and live with the threat of violence.

"Anti immigrant" ???

Don't you mean anti illegal alien or pro nation of laws supporters ?

But you are wrong, most of America's immigrants are due to chain migration and the majority of these legal immigrants over the past couple of decades are poor, uneducated and unskilled.
 
A man and his wife sneak across the border illegally from Mexico. After they live here for a couple of years they have a couple of kids. The kids are now age 9 and 13 and have lived here their whole lives. They don't speak much Spanish. They are enrolled in school and like all kids have friends and play sports and so on. The parents however have never obtained legal status despite the fact they have lived and worked here for 15 years.

It's entirely up to you, could you personally walk into their home, arrest the parents in front of their kids, bring them up before an immigration hearing where you sit as judge, and then deport them back to Mexico?

them being hear doesn't sound any worse then other Americans being hear
 
OK..... so you are all in favor of rounding up anyone that has had oral sex or anal sex in Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and Utah and bringing them before a judge to "face the music" as, after all, breaking the law is breaking the law, people deserve to be held accountable for their actions, period

12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling

There are many arcane, stupid, unenforceable and not practical to enforce laws on the books. In all things judgement must be applied....

You do know those are state, not federal laws. Even so, Cephus's statement still holds. When those laws were valid and enforceable and you were caught doing it, you were charged and prosecuted.
 
Sorry, I should have written this in 2 responses, one for apacherat who said jail them and one to you for comparing their illegal entry to justice for people who have been murdered/raped.

But your squatting comparison also does not really fly in this case because people born inside the United States are natural born Americans. So their children are natural born citizens (or at least that is what the 14th amendment states and as far as I have read so far this has never been ruled on by the supreme court when illegal aliens are involved, so as for now the 14th amendment is in play here) of the United States.

When a child is born in a squatted home it does not legally give them rights to that house, but children who are born in the US are US citizens and they do have rights that come with that citizenship. And they get those rights on legal grounds.

That's perfectly fine - I didn't say the children should be deported - where would American citizens be deported to? I did say that I would have no problem deporting the parents - the criminals in the scenario provided in the OP. When a father commits any crime, we don't penalize the children so why would I suggest it in this scenario. But let's be realistic - if a father commits any crime and is punished, the spouse and children are often unintended victims of his crime because they too may lose the life they've come to know. They may lose their house, their lifestyle, their friends - doesn't seem fair, does it? They didn't do anything wrong. But we're not going to start allowing people with family obligations to commit crimes and only punish the loners.

The simple solution in this case is to deport the parents, place the minor children with legal relatives in the country or a willing foster home until such time as the parents complete the legal process for immigrating to the US. After all, those who enter your country illegally don't seem to care about leaving their families behind while they set up base in America, do they? Nor do they seem to have a problem sending their children to your country alone to hook up with relatives or friends, as this year has clearly proven.

Bottom line, you're getting played by emotional blackmail.
 
OK..... so you are all in favor of rounding up anyone that has had oral sex or anal sex in Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and Utah and bringing them before a judge to "face the music" as, after all, breaking the law is breaking the law, people deserve to be held accountable for their actions, period

12 states still ban sodomy a decade after court ruling

There are many arcane, stupid, unenforceable and not practical to enforce laws on the books. In all things judgement must be applied....

shrug...

If you don't LIKE the law...CHANGE the law. Don't IGNORE the law.
 
I never argued they haven't done anything wrong. I am saying that its messy, a lot messier than a lot of people will acknowledge. Moreover, we actually do delay prison sentences in some cases for parents with kids, particularly single parents with kids, depending on the crime.

I do agree it's messy, SD. But unfortunately I'm a little more of the "do the crime do the time" mindset, and you can almost always make a case for the timing of the punishment (jail, deportation, etc.) is going to have a negative impact on someone - employer, spouse, kids, parents, etc.

You probably think I'm harsh and as a mother myself I can't imagine the pain of kids watching their parents face something like that. But it happens every day in this country, and if we make an exception for this situation, we have to make an exception for every situation.
 
I am all for strengthening security at the border and am closer to the mainstream Republican position on illegal immigration than I am the mainstream Democratic position on it, but despite the fact the parents broke the law in coming here and live here illegally, I don't think I could sleep at night knowing I put a family through that by deporting them.
You would be responsible only if you sponsored them to come here. Aside from that, it is they who put themselves into that situation.

That I think is the fundamental problem with dealing with illegal immigration, many times deporting people does indeed break up families and while its easy to take a hardline in the abstract, its hard to do it if it was actually on you.
Did they know the risks involved? Were they aware of the possible consequences of their actions?
You are putting yourself in their current shoes, so I understand your compassion and empathy. But let me ask you about the millions who have worked very hard within the system to come here legally? The ones who learned the language and assimilated and did everything right, the ones who don't ask for 3 for French or 4 for Italian or 5 for Polish. How is it fair to them?
Here we have one group of people who, by overwhelming numbers, crashed the system until we are now sitting helpless by, wondering what to do.
So you must ask yourself, is it compassion speaking, or just utter defeat? Let us also ask who is out there with enough integrity and brass to stop this nonsense, once and for all?
We aren't Mother Theresa and we aren't some charity. We are a nation with laws, laws that are being ignored and trampled upon, snickered about and taken advantage of. It is enough, and it is time to set examples. No more anchor baby status, no more work without documentation, no more 2 for Spanish.
Breaking the law has consequences. It is as simple as that. That means that those who manipulate the system for their own gain must also be held responsible. Those who hire illegals and cater to them for their own advantage must be brought to justice. From the top down.
You'd be surprised what happens once you put your foot down somewhere. Just giving up is not the answer.
 
That's perfectly fine - I didn't say the children should be deported - where would American citizens be deported to? I did say that I would have no problem deporting the parents - the criminals in the scenario provided in the OP. When a father commits any crime, we don't penalize the children so why would I suggest it in this scenario. But let's be realistic - if a father commits any crime and is punished, the spouse and children are often unintended victims of his crime because they too may lose the life they've come to know. They may lose their house, their lifestyle, their friends - doesn't seem fair, does it? They didn't do anything wrong. But we're not going to start allowing people with family obligations to commit crimes and only punish the loners.

The simple solution in this case is to deport the parents, place the minor children with legal relatives in the country or a willing foster home until such time as the parents complete the legal process for immigrating to the US. After all, those who enter your country illegally don't seem to care about leaving their families behind while they set up base in America, do they? Nor do they seem to have a problem sending their children to your country alone to hook up with relatives or friends, as this year has clearly proven.

Bottom line, you're getting played by emotional blackmail.

But deporting the parents while allowing the underage children remain here is cruel and unusual punishment for both the parents and the innocent children.
 
But deporting the parents while allowing the underage children remain here is cruel and unusual punishment for both the parents and the innocent children.

The only cruel and unusual punishment involved here is the actions of the greedy self centered parents who knowingly put their children in a terrible situation. Other than turning custody of the children over to a legal relative who lives in the US, the children would likely have to follow their parents back to the country they were deported to.

At that point perhaps the parents could spend the years that follow explaining why they so willingly screwed their children over.
 
That assumes that the country of origin will take the kids back when the parents are repatriated. I know Mexico does, but its all dependent on the country of origin's immigration laws. The kids in the scenario in the OP are US citizens while the parents are illegal, US citizens cannot just up and move anywhere, the host country has to agree to take them.

It could put the family in a difficult situation, couldn't it? If the parent's native land won't take the children as immigrants, then one country considers the parents to be illegal, the other considers the kids to be illegal.
 
The only cruel and unusual punishment involved here is the actions of the greedy self centered parents who knowingly put their children in a terrible situation.

They came to the land of opportunity to have their children, as opposed to having them in a country of war, violence, and poverty. How self centered can they be?

Other than turning custody of the children over to a legal relative who lives in the US, the children would likely have to follow their parents back to the country they were deported to.

That's assuming that Aunt Lupe (1) exists, (2) is not an illegal also, and (3) is willing to take on her sister in law's kids when she's trying to raise four of her own.


At that point perhaps the parents could spend the years that follow explaining why they so willingly screwed their children over.

Kids aren't stupid. They will know who screwed them over.

Moreover, they're citizens. Once they turn 18, they can vote and run for office.
 
They came to the land of opportunity to have their children, as opposed to having them in a country of war, violence, and poverty. How self centered can they be?



That's assuming that Aunt Lupe (1) exists, (2) is not an illegal also, and (3) is willing to take on her sister in law's kids when she's trying to raise four of her own.




Kids aren't stupid. They will know who screwed them over.

Moreover, they're citizens. Once they turn 18, they can vote and run for office.

How self centered? Well, rather than come here legally via many different legal means, they came here illegally, knowing that some day they might be deported. Allowing their children to live under such circumstances is despicable and the lowest of lows. These people have broken the law every minute they have been in this country, which is also a hell of an example to give to their children.

If Aunt Lupe doesn't exist, then they have a decision to make. Relinquish custody to the state or other responsible party, and leave them here, or take them back with them. That reality was sealed by them when they chose the cowards way out and came here illegally.
 
How self centered? Well, rather than come here legally via many different legal means, they came here illegally, knowing that some day they might be deported. Allowing their children to live under such circumstances is despicable and the lowest of lows. These people have broken the law every minute they have been in this country, which is also a hell of an example to give to their children.

If Aunt Lupe doesn't exist, then they have a decision to make. Relinquish custody to the state or other responsible party, and leave them here, or take them back with them. That reality was sealed by them when they chose the cowards way out and came here illegally.
Sure, since there are just so many ways for people living in third world poverty to come to the US legally. Sure.
 
How self centered? Well, rather than come here legally via many different legal means, they came here illegally, knowing that some day they might be deported. Allowing their children to live under such circumstances is despicable and the lowest of lows. These people have broken the law every minute they have been in this country, which is also a hell of an example to give to their children.

If Aunt Lupe doesn't exist, then they have a decision to make. Relinquish custody to the state or other responsible party, and leave them here, or take them back with them. That reality was sealed by them when they chose the cowards way out and came here illegally.

Easy argument to make when you were one of the 4.4% of people on this earth lucky enough to be born American. I suppose that took a lot of bravery on your part to choose to be born here rather than in some third world ****hole. :roll: Of course, being you made that choice to be born here, you now get to be entitled to judge those that weren't and call them cowards when they come here looking for work and a better life.
 
Sure, since there are just so many ways for people living in third world poverty to come to the US legally. Sure.

There are many ways. If it's war torn, they can apply on humanitarian grounds. There are plenty of others.

The fact they chose to ignore all of them proves who they are, and who they were thinking of. Obviously having children here, while living under the shadow of potential deportation seals the deal. Extreme greed and self centeredness.

Kind of explains the culture prevalent in the countries they left.
 
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