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Deportation Question.

Could you deport them personally or not?


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So then why jail ANY criminal who has children, no matter the crime? Why not just fine them all. For one it's a very unequal application of the law, for another deportation is NOT punishment.

Well, deportation is a punishment especially if your children are American citizens.

Why not all crime just a fine? You are kidding me right? Well, for one reason because crimes like murder and rape (and a whole host of others) are too horrendous and serious to be punished by a fine only.
 
So then why jail ANY criminal who has children, no matter the crime? Why not just fine them all. For one it's a very unequal application of the law, for another deportation is NOT punishment.

Fines are considered reasonable punishments for non-felonies. Illegal immigration is a non-felony.
 
How is this different from arresting parents to send them to jail and the children sent off to foster care? At least in situation of the OP the children and parents can stay together.
 
How is this different from arresting parents to send them to jail and the children sent off to foster care? At least in situation of the OP the children and parents can stay together.

That assumes that the country of origin will take the kids back when the parents are repatriated. I know Mexico does, but its all dependent on the country of origin's immigration laws. The kids in the scenario in the OP are US citizens while the parents are illegal, US citizens cannot just up and move anywhere, the host country has to agree to take them.
 
Fines are considered reasonable punishments for non-felonies. Illegal immigration is a non-felony.

No, because it's an ongoing enterprise. The fine doesn't resolve the crime.
 
That assumes that the country of origin will take the kids back when the parents are repatriated. I know Mexico does, but its all dependent on the country of origin's immigration laws. The kids in the scenario in the OP are US citizens while the parents are illegal, US citizens cannot just up and move anywhere, the host country has to agree to take them.

You're forgetting these are minor children. You know children born of Guatemalan or Mexican citizens also have Guatemalan or Mexican citizenship status. Same is true throughout South America. When they get older and apply for their US citizenship re-entry, part of the process is deciding to drop that other citizenship they are entitled to.
 
No, because it's an ongoing enterprise.

No, one only crosses the border in a single instance. That is where the federal government has authority. Once entry has occurred, however, the issue reverts to a State issue, as per the constitution.
 
No, one only crosses the border in a single instance. That is where the federal government has authority. Once entry has occurred, however, the issue reverts to a State issue, as per the constitution.

No, being in country illegally is federal, and it's not just entry, it's continuing to be here. We know it's federal because AZ was slapped down for thinking things were as you state. Otherwise overstaying your visa wouldn't make you an illegal alien.
 
You're forgetting these are minor children. You know children born of Guatemalan or Mexican citizens also have Guatemalan or Mexican citizenship status. Same is true throughout South America. When they get older and apply for their US citizenship re-entry, part of the process is deciding to drop that other citizenship they are entitled to.

Not all South American countries are on this list: List of Countries Allow/Restrict Dual Citizenship
 
No, being in country illegally is federal, and it's not just entry, it's continuing to be here. We know it's federal because AZ was slapped down for thinking things were as you state. Otherwise overstaying your visa wouldn't make you an illegal alien.

Overstaying one's visa is essentially a single action occurring the moment one has overstayed said visa. Duration of time that occurs since committing the crime has no bearing on the matter. It's not a continuous crime.

AZ ****ed up because they sought to enforce federal laws, not pass their own laws.
 
A man and his wife sneak across the border illegally from Mexico. After they live here for a couple of years they have a couple of kids. The kids are now age 9 and 13 and have lived here their whole lives. They don't speak much Spanish. They are enrolled in school and like all kids have friends and play sports and so on. The parents however have never obtained legal status despite the fact they have lived and worked here for 15 years.

It's entirely up to you, could you personally walk into their home, arrest the parents in front of their kids, bring them up before an immigration hearing where you sit as judge, and then deport them back to Mexico?

No, and I'm appalled by those who say they could. Exile two children to a country they don't even speak the language of, despite the fact that they committed no crime, and despite their citizenry in the United States? That is just blind hackery, with no attention to the nuance of reality. It's a sign of the sickness, gang-like mentality, and lack of intelligence of our political discourse that this is considered a reasonable enough position to even speak it in public.

Assuming they were otherwise law abiding, I would offer some kind of path to legality for the parents. As a compromise, I would be willing to consider having said legality only go so far as residency contingent on behavior, or last for only as long as their children are dependent. But honestly, I would need to be convinced to consider that. I have long been of the belief that being a citizen of the world should be much easier for any decent person than it often is. I have much personal experience with how difficult and even intentionally tormenting it is, for absolutely no legitimate reason, in my opinion.
 
You're forgetting these are minor children.

Minor US citizens. Can't open pandora's box of deporting natural born US citizens. And since they have done exactly the same thing as every other natural born US citizen in history to earn their citizenship, there's no logical reason to deny them that which they have equally not earned.

When they get older and apply for their US citizenship re-entry, part of the process is deciding to drop that other citizenship they are entitled to.

Natural born US citizens do not need to apply for entry. They are natural born US citizens. Nor do they have to relinquish dual citizenship.
 
I am all for strengthening security at the border and am closer to the mainstream Republican position on illegal immigration than I am the mainstream Democratic position on it, but despite the fact the parents broke the law in coming here and live here illegally, I don't think I could sleep at night knowing I put a family through that by deporting them. That I think is the fundamental problem with dealing with illegal immigration, many times deporting people does indeed break up families and while its easy to take a hardline in the abstract, its hard to do it if it was actually on you.

Part of the reason this has become such an issue is precisely because we have been too lax for so long. It's like with anything else when humans are involved, give an inch and people will take a mile. The only way to get people taking our laws seriously again is to begin actually enforcing them... and unfortunately there would be some hard choices to make to get it going.

If we're not willing to do that, then we should stop pretending and throw the borders open and repeal the laws.

I don't like the idea of putting otherwise good families through this, but I also believe that we need to have and control access to our country. Nobody will take us seriously unless and until we take it seriously.
 
Part of the reason this has become such an issue is precisely because we have been too lax for so long. It's like with anything else when humans are involved, give an inch and people will take a mile. The only way to get people taking our laws seriously again is to begin actually enforcing them... and unfortunately there would be some hard choices to make to get it going.

If we're not willing to do that, then we should stop pretending and throw the borders open and repeal the laws.

I don't like the idea of putting otherwise good families through this, but I also believe that we need to have and control access to our country. Nobody will take us seriously unless and until we take it seriously.

Couldn't we show we are serious by really going after those that employ illegal immigrants and doing a better job of securing our border? It seems like we could do that while at the same time recognizing that situations do exist like the one described in the opening post. I think its realistic and practical to go after those that employ illegals and securing our border, I don't its realistic to think we could deport everyone that is already here though.
 
Overstaying one's visa is essentially a single action occurring the moment one has overstayed said visa. Duration of time that occurs since committing the crime has no bearing on the matter. It's not a continuous crime.

AZ ****ed up because they sought to enforce federal laws, not pass their own laws.

Oh yes indeed it is. You are here illegally from the moment your visa expires or is revoked. And you are entirely wrong, it was AZ's new law that was the subject of the federal lawsuit.
 
You don't get it. Neither does the US officially (accept dual citizenship). That's why, again, when they apply for re-entry as citizens they must renounce their host country citizenship.

What you don't seem to understand is that in such a scenario the kids are U.S. citizens while the parents are not. The parents can be repatriated, but the kids may or may not be allowed to go with them as it would depend upon the laws of the parents country of origin.
 
The law is the law, send them to prison and after they serve their time DEPORT them.

What's the point of imprisoning people you want gone? That's a waste of taxpayer dollars. If you're gonna boot'em, just do at that time.
 
What's the point of imprisoning people you want gone? That's a waste of taxpayer dollars. If you're gonna boot'em, just do at that time.

I was think after they serve their time in prison, transport them to the Canadian border and have them picking up trash along the highways all the way to the Mexican border.

Feed them gringo burritos, that will only cost the taxpayers .05 cent per burrito.
 
Couldn't we show we are serious by really going after those that employ illegal immigrants and doing a better job of securing our border? It seems like we could do that while at the same time recognizing that situations do exist like the one described in the opening post. I think its realistic and practical to go after those that employ illegals and securing our border, I don't its realistic to think we could deport everyone that is already here though.
If we're going to be serious it would have to be a multi-pronged approach, so yes, those measures should be done at the same time.

Another thing we need to do is change "birth rite" citizenship. Change it to being born here AND one biological parent already a citizen.

Take away the incentive to come illegally, and border security would largely take care of itself.

Any hard change will have an uncomfortable adjustment period.
 
What you don't seem to understand is that in such a scenario the kids are U.S. citizens while the parents are not. The parents can be repatriated, but the kids may or may not be allowed to go with them as it would depend upon the laws of the parents country of origin.

If the kids are anchor babies of illegal alien Mexican citizens, the Mexican government/Constitution claim that the anchor babies are Mexican citizens.
 
If the kids are anchor babies of illegal alien Mexican citizens, the Mexican government/Constitution claim that the anchor babies are Mexican citizens.

That is Mexico, not every country has the same laws in regard to citizenship though.
 
What you don't seem to understand is that in such a scenario the kids are U.S. citizens while the parents are not. The parents can be repatriated, but the kids may or may not be allowed to go with them as it would depend upon the laws of the parents country of origin.

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Consider this, American citizen parents in Guatemala have a child. That child has US citizenship AND Guatemalan citizenship. Since this is a minor, the child's actual citizenship follows the parents' choice. But you know in that situation, when returning to the US the parents must file for the child's US citizenship, renouncing his/her Guatemalan citizenship.

Now Mexico and every other South American nation doesn't require that last part, the MINOR child inherit the citizenship of their parents AND their birth country.

So again, this particular plea for sympathy isn't working.
 
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