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Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

Is Obama breaking the law?

  • Yes, by his own words he is breaking the law

    Votes: 36 48.6%
  • No, perfectly legal

    Votes: 13 17.6%
  • Doing same as Regan and Bush did

    Votes: 13 17.6%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • Dont care

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • Go Fish

    Votes: 6 8.1%

  • Total voters
    74

GmH

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Messages
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Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Is Obama righting Laws or is he doing the same thing as Bush and Reagan?
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Without a doubt its perfectly perfectly legal.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Is Obama righting Laws or is he doing the same thing as Bush and Reagan?

I don't know. The way I understand Congress passed the law that Reagan signed and Bush's expanded congressional intent. Obama's apparently is in defiance of congressional intent. SO they are not the same as under each president the situations and circumstance were different.

I will just wait until the President does whatever he does to determine whether I will support him, oppose him or be indifferent to the entire mess.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Is Obama righting Laws or is he doing the same thing as Bush and Reagan?

IN regards to which executive order?
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Is Obama righting Laws or is he doing the same thing as Bush and Reagan?

I'm confused - do you really mean "righting" laws, as in correcting errors/omissions? - or do you mean "writing" laws, as in legislating from the Oval Office?

There is an important difference, at least in my view.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

As I posted previously, if it's unclear to the SCOTUS that it's most certainly within the law, and, the Congress is greatly opposed to it, the SCOTUS will overturn it.

The SCOTUS has overturned EOs in the past for these reasons.

Clearly, without question, suspending sentence (amnesty) is a form of pardon .. and pardon does not come under the heading of executive order.

If Obama attempts to make his pardon an executive order, he is in violation of presidential powers, and the SCOTUS will most rightly reject it.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Is Obama righting Laws or is he doing the same thing as Bush and Reagan?

My understanding is that Reagan and Bush worked with congress to correct flaws which adversely affected families that were granted amnesty by congress in 1986. Obama has never worked with congress. He's a terrible president.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Without a doubt its perfectly perfectly legal.

nono.gif


But while presidents unquestionably have the power to exercise immigration enforcement discretion in order to further foreign policy or humanitarian goals, what they do not have the power to do is functionally rewrite U.S. immigration law, which is exactly what Obama's impending executive action on immigration would do.

The past incidents listed above were all in response to specific humanitarian crises or foreign policy events. They all were narrowly tailored to help specific subsets of immigrants. Obama's impending executive action is the exact opposite. He is planning on giving work permits, Social Security numbers, and drivers licenses to as many as 8 million illegal immigrants. This is not narrow humanitarian relief. This is a flagrant attempt to get around Congress's exclusive Article I power "to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."

Obama is the first president in the history of the United States to abuse his executive prosecutorial discretion powers in this manner. Because no president has abused this power on this scale before, there is no case law that details the scope of a president's prosecutorial discretion. But just because the case law isn't there yet, doesn't mean there are no limits to Obama's power......snip~

The Official White House Talking Points for Obama's Amnesty - Conn Carroll
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

I don't know. The way I understand Congress passed the law that Reagan signed and Bush's expanded congressional intent. Obama's apparently is in defiance of congressional intent. SO they are not the same as under each president the situations and circumstance were different.

I will just wait until the President does whatever he does to determine whether I will support him, oppose him or be indifferent to the entire mess.

how is taking actions that laws passed by congress allow him to take demonstrate a "defiance of congressional intent"?
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Has he made the announcement yet? Have the details been released?

I guess I missed that if he has.


I disagree with the very principle of what is proposed but disagreeing is one thing and illegal is quite another. Let me see the details and then I'll let you know if I think it's illegal.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

My understanding is that Reagan and Bush worked with congress to correct flaws which adversely affected families that were granted amnesty by congress in 1986. Obama has never worked with congress. He's a terrible president.

If they had truly "worked with Congress to correct flaws" then congress would have passed new laws to correct those flaws, making the EO unnecessary and irrelevant.

The fact is, that after the immigration reform act was passed in 1986, Congress passed nothing to fix those flaws, which is why both Reagan and bush* issued EO's
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Has he made the announcement yet? Have the details been released?

I guess I missed that if he has.


I disagree with the very principle of what is proposed but disagreeing is one thing and illegal is quite another. Let me see the details and then I'll let you know if I think it's illegal.



Didn't a Senior WH Official Leak BO's 10 step plan a few days ago?


http://www.debatepolitics.com/immig...0-point-immigration-plan-via-exec-action.html
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Has he made the announcement yet? Have the details been released?

I guess I missed that if he has.


I disagree with the very principle of what is proposed but disagreeing is one thing and illegal is quite another. Let me see the details and then I'll let you know if I think it's illegal.

That is kinda one of my two points I was trying to subtly make. No executive order was specified, and since the one on immigration that is so a source of conversation has not been made yet, it is impossible to judge it's lawfulness.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Who cares?

Legal or not, he (and whomever takes over after him) will leave the country worse then when they started. And the fault lies entirely with the voters - no one else.

American voters are arrogant and generally ignorant...a horrible combination. They (as a whole) don't understand politics, the world or macroeconomics. And ever since 9/11, they have (again, as a whole) turned into cowards - spineless ignoramuses who believe they are neither.

All empires end...the Sun is starting to set on this one.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Who cares?

Legal or not, he (and whomever takes over after him) will leave the country worse then when they started. And the fault lies entirely with the voters - no one else.

American voters are arrogant and generally ignorant...a horrible combination. They (as a whole) don't understand politics, the world or macroeconomics. And ever since 9/11, they have (again, as a whole) turned into cowards - spineless ignoramuses who believe they are neither.

All empires end...the Sun is starting to set on this one.

I heard all this same **** back in the 60s, and it was old then. The fading is taking a long ****ing time...
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

nono.gif


But while presidents unquestionably have the power to exercise immigration enforcement discretion in order to further foreign policy or humanitarian goals, what they do not have the power to do is functionally rewrite U.S. immigration law, which is exactly what Obama's impending executive action on immigration would do.

The past incidents listed above were all in response to specific humanitarian crises or foreign policy events. They all were narrowly tailored to help specific subsets of immigrants. Obama's impending executive action is the exact opposite. He is planning on giving work permits, Social Security numbers, and drivers licenses to as many as 8 million illegal immigrants. This is not narrow humanitarian relief. This is a flagrant attempt to get around Congress's exclusive Article I power "to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."

Obama is the first president in the history of the United States to abuse his executive prosecutorial discretion powers in this manner. Because no president has abused this power on this scale before, there is no case law that details the scope of a president's prosecutorial discretion. But just because the case law isn't there yet, doesn't mean there are no limits to Obama's power......snip~

The Official White House Talking Points for Obama's Amnesty - Conn Carroll

Clown Hall is calling it amnesty; they're full of ****.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

I heard all this same **** back in the 60s, and it was old then. The fading is taking a long ****ing time...

I am not responsible for what you heard in the 60's. Up until about '01 (before 9/11), I thought America had a generally bright future.

If you want to believe America is on the right path, go ahead.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Clown Hall is calling it amnesty; they're full of ****.

Looking to play off of terminology again, is that what Media Matters teaches with Daily Kos and that Demo Underground? (Rhetorical question) Look up what Turley stated.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Clown Hall is calling it amnesty; they're full of ****.
Deportation is the fundamental punishment for illegal aliens, even without considering restitution they need to make for their crimes, and the imprisonment they deserve (which we're incapable of so we just send them back).

If deportation is suspended, if the sentence is suspended, that's a pardoning act of amnesty.

It's really clear as a bell.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

I am not responsible for what you heard in the 60's. Up until about '01 (before 9/11), I thought America had a generally bright future.

If you want to believe America is on the right path, go ahead.

You miss the point. There are people, always, who think that when things are done they are not personally hapy with, it means that the "Sun is starting to set" on the US. It is hysteria, nothing more.
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Is Obama righting Laws or is he doing the same thing as Bush and Reagan?

Dunno.

Have to wait and see the details of what exactly he does....
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Has he made the announcement yet? Have the details been released?

I guess I missed that if he has.

I disagree with the very principle of what is proposed but disagreeing is one thing and illegal is quite another. Let me see the details and then I'll let you know if I think it's illegal.

That is kinda one of my two points I was trying to subtly make. No executive order was specified, and since the one on immigration that is so a source of conversation has not been made yet, it is impossible to judge it's lawfulness.

Cart in Front of Horse.jpg

I appreciate the need for this thread.... but the need begins AFTER we know what the actual action will be. Until then, its nothing but needless speculation. No point in getting one's panties in a bunch until its time to get your panties in a bunch... (ok, two metaphors for one point is one metaphor too many)..
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Didn't a Senior WH Official Leak BO's 10 step plan a few days ago?


http://www.debatepolitics.com/immig...0-point-immigration-plan-via-exec-action.html



Leak?

Right.

That is the sure way to ensure maximum exposure without too much examination of the content. It starts the discussion and ensures there will be not just coverage, but that the coverage cycle is long and shallow. The inverse is "garbage Friday" where all the bad news is dealt with through a late Friday afternoon "take out the trash" series of press releases.

By making it appear like a leak, even the negative outlets jump on it, and in the US it also ensures the right will over react, which is what they need to get it done. If the opposition can be dismissed as "right wing fanatics" they have free reign of the rink with your goalie on the bench.

And, as we have seen with the horsepower these people can launch, all it takes is one idiot in the past ten years and they get one between the pipes.

This is what I would call "advance lying" to see what works
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Leak?

Right.

That is the sure way to ensure maximum exposure without too much examination of the content. It starts the discussion and ensures there will be not just coverage, but that the coverage cycle is long and shallow. The inverse is "garbage Friday" where all the bad news is dealt with through a late Friday afternoon "take out the trash" series of press releases.

By making it appear like a leak, even the negative outlets jump on it, and in the US it also ensures the right will over react, which is what they need to get it done. If the opposition can be dismissed as "right wing fanatics" they have free reign of the rink with your goalie on the bench.

And, as we have seen with the horsepower these people can launch, all it takes is one idiot in the past ten years and they get one between the pipes.

This is what I would call "advance lying" to see what works



What would really be funny is for BO to talk about cutting an EO and giving Amnesty. Then go on Prime-Time Cable to give a speech. Then never issue the order for Amnesty. Now that would be something huh?

Just think how that perception would play out for him and the Demos. :lamo
 
Re: Obama's Executive Order

Deportation is the fundamental punishment for illegal aliens, even without considering restitution they need to make for their crimes, and the imprisonment they deserve (which we're incapable of so we just send them back).

If deportation is suspended, if the sentence is suspended, that's a pardoning act of amnesty.

It's really clear as a bell.

Deportation will be suspended for those who pass a back ground check, but for others who are criminals they will be deported. More of undocumented have deported than any other president has done.
 
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