Obama's Executive Order[W:265]

Re: Obama's Executive Order

ttwtt78640 said:

That is where elections SHOULD come into play. If the congress devolves into such chaos then perhaps the sheeple will react and remove those that dabble in endless hearings on what the executive is up to and demand that their congress critters actually get to work and write sensible laws including the funding needed to enforce them. Everyone seems to agree that our current laws (and enforcement funding levels) have allowed 20 million illegal aliens to "slip through the cracks" and that the vast majority of them have jobs and obey at least some of the other laws. It is not the illegals that are to blame for gaming the system, but the system that is so easily gamed that is the problem.

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I certainly support Congress looking into the matter. My reservations are simple however: will Congress look only at their hated enemy who wields power that they object to the end result... or will Congress also look at the historical reason why he is able to do this and the role Congress played in enabling the President to do so?

I know this is going to sound very politically incorrect - but I will venture to step into it anyways: let us say that a spouse comes to a point with their mate where they no longer have any interest in sex and they simply end that part of their relationship. Then, after a year or two of this, the other spouse goes outs and decides if there is no home cooking - they will get some fast food. So the offended spouse wants to hire a private investigator to nail the mate to the wall and provide evidence of the infidelity. What are the chances that the offended spouse will look at their own complicity, their own actions and their own role in helping to create this problem in the first place?

I suspect the Congress in their possible investigations would be in a very similar position. And I further suspect nothing good or lasting would come from it and it would be very limited to "getting the bastard" that their sights are set upon. And when a new bastard from their own party comes in and does the same thing they will not be as prosecutorial nor as judgmental and will tend to look the other way.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Mycroft said:

Really?? Posting the link to an article that displays the viewpoint of black leaders is "playing the race card"??? LOL!! :doh

Now...for sure, this is a conservative group, but if you think nobody's heard of them...well, you would be more accurate if you said, "I haven't heard of them". Here is the bio of just one of this group's members:

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Horace taught constitutional law at George Mason University in Virginia and was general counsel to U.S. House Majority Leader Dick Armey.

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Yes, a black man who worked for Armey and was part of the Abramson scandal is certainly representative of the black population

Re: Obama's Executive Order

haymarket said:

Obviously the answer is to arm every person with the biggest and baddest gun ever made and hunt these tyrants down like rabid dogs in the street talking the law into our own hands because we are all our own sovereign rulers.

Now is that better for you? :roll::doh

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This is not a serious answer. You are a troll.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

ttwtt78640 said:

I would classify simple fraud, not only perjury, as a misdemeanor crime worthy of starting impeachment proceedings. When a POTUS states that congress must act (as I wish) or I will simply no longer keep my oath of office to enforce the standing constitutional laws of the nation that is enough, IMHO, to start the ball rolling. Whether that would ever carry the day in the Senate remains to be seen.

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There is no constitutional requirement to deport immigrants. In fact, there are solid arguments that the constitution doesn't grant the govt the power to deport immigrants.

After all, the constitution doesn't say anything about immigration, now does it?

Re: Obama's Executive Order

sangha said:

There is no constitutional requirement to deport immigrants. In fact, there are solid arguments that the constitution doesn't grant the govt the power to deport immigrants.

After all, the constitution doesn't say anything about immigration, now does it?

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Are you saying that all deportations are unconstitutional? Let's impeach Obama for that then.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Misterveritis said:

This is not a serious answer. You are a troll.

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I would think in your world and in your belief system and in your politics it is just the sort of answer that gets the true believers excited and stand at full attention.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

ttwtt78640 said:

Are you saying that all deportations are unconstitutional? Let's impeach Obama for that then.

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NO, I'm not saying that. Other people are.

The argument depends on the notion that soveriegn nations have no implied powers; only those explicitly granted by the constitution. I do not believe in that nonsense, but many on the right do.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

sangha said:

NO, I'm not saying that. Other people are.

The argument depends on the notion that soveriegn nations have no implied powers; only those explicitly granted by the constitution. I do not believe in that nonsense, but many on the right do.

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I think the idea of implied powers is nonsense. In fact, I'm sure it is.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Juanita said:

I don't believe that the word "illegal" was ever used by the President!

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....did you miss all those quotes I gave you? There are plenty more where they came from.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Juanita said:

Reid has done the same thing as Boener regarding bills, but most of the bills passed by the House are nonsense bills that they knew in advance would never get through the senate.

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They are bi-Partisan in nature, and sit collecting dust on Reid's desk because he wanted to protect his members from having to actually make decisions on governance. The downside of that being that it was so easy to pin Senators with "Senator So-and-So voted with Obama 98.5% of the time..." ads this last cycle, and Democrat Senators in contested states didn't have anything they could point to to demonstrate independence.

Boehner, on the other hand, has overseen an incredibly active House. Not only have they passed measures to reform entitlements (grabbing that Third Rail of Politics that is supposed to be so dangerous), he has also passed actual budgets, something the Senate hasn't even tried to get done.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

haymarket said:

Allow me to ask you a simple question and I hope you can answer it for me: Can you quote me the law which Obama has broken with these actions?

Yes - I get it that the Congress writes the laws and the President carries them out or executes them. No problem. And that is why the entire growth of presidential power under both parties over the last several decades does indeed bother me. But what specific law has Obama broken with these actions now?

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Art 1 Sec 8

The congress shall have the power...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

8 U.S. Code § 1154

Which has a whole load of laws passed by congress defining who can be called an immigrant.

8 U.S. Code Chapter 12, Subchapter II - IMMIGRATION

Which lays out all of the laws regarding immigration.

8 U.S. Code § 1181

Which blocks entry except in certain cases.

More?

Re: Obama's Executive Order

The comrades at the Daily Kos, Media Matters, or some other statist propaganda source must be putting out strategy tips for their cadres. The idea seems to be to try to force those who object to the Red King's edict to explain, in detail, exactly what statutes, etc. it violates. The goal is to obscure the enormity of the outrage their messiah has just perpetrated against this country, and they hope to achieve it by bogging down and ensnaring anyone who wants to fight against it in details.

The members of Obama's rear guard want to make this out as nothing more than petty, partisan bitterness to draw attention away from the reality--what Mr. Obama has just done is an open assault on the Constitution and on the United States as a free country. No American should tolerate it, and those who support it should be ashamed to call themselves Americans. If, that is, they had any shame. They do not. All they care about, as they showed earlier with the Obamacare law, is getting the result they want, and democracy be damned. They share Obama's taste for totalitariansm and his contempt for this country, its Constitution, and the rule of law.

Here's my answer: We are not in court, and I don't give a damn what specific laws he violated, or even if he violated any at all. No one needs to brief a case for the prosecution against this damned un-American liar to want his head on a pike. No one would need to do any of that even to impeach him, and I sure as hell am not about to try to do it here. It is more than enough to know Obama has grossly and repeatedly violated the public trust by abusing his power and showing contempt for the Constitution. He richly deserves to be impeached, and it is only the fact he is the first black President that is shielding him from it. That may change.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

jonny5 said:

Art 1 Sec 8

The congress shall have the power...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

8 U.S. Code § 1154

Which has a whole load of laws passed by congress defining who can be called an immigrant.

8 U.S. Code Chapter 12, Subchapter II - IMMIGRATION

Which lays out all of the laws regarding immigration.

8 U.S. Code § 1181

Which blocks entry except in certain cases.

More?

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What I was hoping for was exact language to show the law Obama had violated. you giving me broad sections of codes is hardly that.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

ocean515 said:

So assuming that is accurate. Will it be easier to deport 5 million illegal aliens in three years, or is this just a ruse, and the truth is the President has granted a permanent modified amnesty?

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No amnesty has been granted, permanent or otherwise. This will give the Republicans a chance to pass the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill which the House has been sitting on for a year and a half. If they don't do it, there won't be another Republican President in the White House for many, many years.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

MMC said:

Mornin' Juanita.

This doesn't give him the Right to create any New Program.
Q
Also his lame excuse as to Congress had failed to send him a bill......was just his usual. Another lie.

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Morning back atcha MMC...He didn't create any new programs! The House has been sitting on the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill for a year and a half..so no, not a lie or a lame excuse.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Mycroft said:

Oh...I'll admit these people aren't as well-known nationally as, say, Al Sharpton...btw, now THERE'S a black activist we can all be proud of, eh? Trying to bilk the government out of millions and then blaming it on Republicans who don't like Obama because he's black. Talk about playing the race card, eh? Maybe they need to rise to Sharpton's level of black activism before they'll be noticed.

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Maybe they do!

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Juanita said:

Maybe they do!

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Do you hate black people?...that you would recommend inflicting Sharpton on them?

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Juanita said:

No amnesty has been granted, permanent or otherwise. This will give the Republicans a chance to pass the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill which the House has been sitting on for a year and a half. If they don't do it, there won't be another Republican President in the White House for many, many years.

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The Republican Congress, next year, will never pass that abomination the Democratic Senate sent to them last year. You can be sure of that.

But what they DO send to Obama will be better and more effective because it'll START with border security and they'll go on from there.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

MMC said:

The cost for the Fed to run the background checks.....also with how many will need to be hired to look into those backgrounds. All the manhours too.

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Fail.....You can do a complete background check on the web for practically nothing... They won't be able to do it that easily, but someone else will and they will be overcharged dramatically.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

cpwill said:

They are bi-Partisan in nature, and sit collecting dust on Reid's desk because he wanted to protect his members from having to actually make decisions on governance. The downside of that being that it was so easy to pin Senators with "Senator So-and-So voted with Obama 98.5% of the time..." ads this last cycle, and Democrat Senators in contested states didn't have anything they could point to to demonstrate independence.

Boehner, on the other hand, has overseen an incredibly active House. Not only have they passed measures to reform entitlements (grabbing that Third Rail of Politics that is supposed to be so dangerous), he has also passed actual budgets, something the Senate hasn't even tried to get done.

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Well, perhaps if Boehner had brought the Senate's Immigration Bill to the floor for a vote, Reid would have brought some of Boehner's bills up as well. You think?

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Mycroft said:

The Republican Congress, next year, will never pass that abomination the Democratic Senate sent to them last year. You can be sure of that.

But what they DO send to Obama will be better and more effective because it'll START with border security and they'll go on from there.

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My understanding is that it was a bipartisan bill.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Juanita said:

Well, perhaps if Boehner had brought the Senate's Immigration Bill to the floor for a vote, Reid would have brought some of Boehner's bills up as well. You think?

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There's nothing in the history of Reid's Senate that would lead any reasonable person to believe that.

You seem to continue to forget, or at least not acknowledge, that fact that Reid's desk has been the final resting point for many a bi-partisan passed House bill. One might even reasonably conclude that it's one of the main reasons that this congress has been the least productive.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

eohrnberger said:

There's nothing in the history of Reid's Senate that would lead any reasonable person to believe that.

You seem to continue to forget, or at least not acknowledge, that fact that Reid's desk has been the final resting point for many a bi-partisan passed House bill. One might even reasonably conclude that it's one of the main reasons that this congress has been the least productive.

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They passed the bipartisan Immigration Bill didn't they?

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Juanita said:

They passed the bipartisan Immigration Bill didn't they?

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One bill of 100's that they didn't. One bill of 100's that are still sitting in Reid's desk. Many jobs related, and other dealing with the country's business.

Of course, one could look at the number of bills from each of the houses, and pretty quickly see where the log jam is piled up at the Senate.

Re: Obama's Executive Order

Juanita said:

My understanding is that it was a bipartisan bill.

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So what? Doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Look...Democrats like BIG bills, thousands of pages. Everything, including the kitchen sink, tossed in for good measure. Kind of like Obamacare.

But the House Republicans...Boehner, to be specific...want to deal with "immigration reform" in a realistic, logical step-by-step manner. Secure the border first. Once that's done, then deal with the other issues like how to deal with the millions of illegal aliens in the country, how to deal with the employers who insist on breaking the law, guest workers, legal immigration process. If you try to shove all this stuff in one humongous bill, things don't work right.

That Senate bill is 1200 pages. Add all the agency rules that come out of it and it'll be as big...and as useless...as Obamacare. But that's what the Democrats want and that's what Obama has been trying to force the House Republicans to pass. It's not going to work.