• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is the West at war with Islam?[W:118]

Is the West at War with Islam?

  • Yes Mostly

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • Yes, kind of.

    Votes: 9 23.1%
  • No, kind of.

    Votes: 5 12.8%
  • No Mostly

    Votes: 21 53.8%

  • Total voters
    39
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Are we at war with Christianity?

Are you equating Christianity to Isis? As I said...cultural relativity only goes so far. It has been proven that Christianity CAN and HAS adapted to western democracy. Has Islam? Has sharia law?

Do you know what cultural relativity is? I know I've said now 3 times. And I'm sincere.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Has the KKK cut anyone head off?

No they preferred to drag people out and hang them in front of their families. They also had a tendency to burn people alive, and drag them to death behind horses and later cars….:roll:
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

I don't think we are at war with Islam. However, while most religions can be dangerous and violent if taken to their fundamentalist extremes, no modern religion is as bad as Islam. Just look at the polls taken among Muslims on various beliefs like death for apostates and sharia law, and you will find that a majority of practicing Muslims hold far more radical views than anything even approaching a majority of any other major religion.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Since when did ISIS represent a whole religion?

Did I say that?

It represents the part of a religion that needs to change. There is no shortage of "Isis" like groups and you know it. Why?

Why are you so quick to throw Christianity in when we are talking about Islam and the part of Islam that needs to end/change? Why not simply recognize that the PC "cultural relativity" has gone too far?

You honestly want to try and stand for the radicals by saying "well Christianity did this!!" Is that it? Why not take the stance that this isn't about Christianity? That this is about how Islam is desperately needing to change to keep defining itself as a "peaceful" religion?

Cultural relativity states (in short) that you can only define right and wrong through the views of the culture you are looking at, and not your own. But that only goes so far. Murder, massacre, rape, and all of that...is wrong. Yes. The KKK is bad. But they aren't the topic. Islam is. Why is it fostering hate? Is it certain archaic view? Yes.

Sharia law is bad. It is not relevant or acceptable to a 21st century society. I'm sorry, anything that promotes stoning of homosexuals or rape victims isn't ok. And sharia isn't a small sect of Islam like the KKK jackasses are to Christianity. It is much bigger.

So. You willing to tolerate sharia law? Or do you think it is archaic? Again. I made it clear in my OP that I don't think it is Islam, but sharia law.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

I don't think we are at war with Islam. However, while most religions can be dangerous and violent if taken to their fundamentalist extremes, no modern religion is as bad as Islam. Just look at the polls taken among Muslims on various beliefs like death for apostates and sharia law, and you will find that a majority of practicing Muslims hold far more radical views than anything even approaching a majority of any other major religion.

Very well stated. I think Islam is in need of a "reformation" if you will. Christianity was brutal, and it took the formation of Protestantism and several centuries to finally calm down.

I actually think reading about the Vikings helped me understand Islam. The cultures around Norse mythology/paganism and Islam grew in a harsh environment. And while it may not excuse the violence, it certainly explains it.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

No they preferred to drag people out and hang them in front of their families. They also had a tendency to burn people alive, and drag them to death behind horses and later cars….:roll:

No but how much influence do they have right now? Modern America wouldn't tolerate them doing anything more than a rally. And even then we only let that happen because of our constitution.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

No they preferred to drag people out and hang them in front of their families. They also had a tendency to burn people alive, and drag them to death behind horses and later cars….:roll:

When did they do that?
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Would you even be remotely accepted in sharia law nations?

Sharia Law is not threatening Europe or North and South America in any form. ISIS might, AQ has, terrorist etc. If Iran or another country wants to abide by it, what business is it of ours? Let each country, the people of each country choose what ever form of government that they deem best for them.

I live in Georgia, I do not feel threaten by Sharia Law nor is it being forced upon me. Now other types of laws are and those laws come from Washington. I am more in fear of those laws than any Sharia Law some other person in some far away country has to abide by. It does not effect me one iota.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Sharia Law is not threatening Europe or North and South America in any form. ISIS might, AQ has, terrorist etc. If Iran or another country wants to abide by it, what business is it of ours? Let each country, the people of each country choose what ever form of government that they deem best for them.

I live in Georgia, I do not feel threaten by Sharia Law nor is it being forced upon me. Now other types of laws are and those laws come from Washington. I am more in fear of those laws than any Sharia Law some other person in some far away country has to abide by. It does not effect me one iota.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/anti-gay-anti-alcohol-londons-sharia-patrol/

Have you been watching the news? It seems that there is a call to spread this stuff. Do you think it jives with our western world? The patrols?
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

This is an interesting question and I am curious to see a poll result. I am watching 60 minutes and some of the "Sharia" patrols are interesting to me. The protests and such in England and France. They are very foreign.

My personal view is that we are at war with Sharia law. Not really Islam. The West will NEVER accept Sharia law. It is not something that our culture will tolerate based on our development over the past few hundred years. So please share your views. I am interested.

Not sure the question/poll is phrased the right way. If anything, Western ideologies are in competition with ideologies more prevalent in nations where Islam is dominant. In that context, it matches with history as those ideologies have always been in competition with plenty of war along the way. I've often said that the aptitude of the people in those nations where Islam is dominant are incompatible with more western social and governmental thinking. It seems to be true throughout history, and is still true today.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Very well stated. I think Islam is in need of a "reformation" if you will. Christianity was brutal, and it took the formation of Protestantism and several centuries to finally calm down.

I actually think reading about the Vikings helped me understand Islam. The cultures around Norse mythology/paganism and Islam grew in a harsh environment. And while it may not excuse the violence, it certainly explains it.

Islam already had a reformation. But of course being the violent religion it is it wasn't really a reformation so much as a civil war. It led to the creation of the two serparate groups, Shia and Sunni, the Shia being hyper-militant people who feel that they must jihad against anything not their own while the sunnis originally believed that the leader of an Islamic country shouldn't be a religious leader. The sunnis still believe that but in addition to that the militancy of the Shia have rubbed off on them recently.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Not sure the question/poll is phrased the right way. If anything, Western ideologies are in competition with ideologies more prevalent in nations where Islam is dominant. In that context, it matches with history as those ideologies have always been in competition with plenty of war along the way. I've often said that the aptitude of the people in those nations where Islam is dominant are incompatible with more western social and governmental thinking. It seems to be true throughout history, and is still true today.

The question is right. I am trying to highlight, or at least am hoping too, that we are not at war with Islam. But we are not at peace with it either. It is Islam that is in need of change. I mean actively killing Muslims by Isis? Really any radical group. The west will not peacefully coexist with Islam until Islam changes. That is my view anyway.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Anti-gay, anti-alcohol: London's "Sharia patrol" - Videos - CBS News

Have you been watching the news? It seems that there is a call to spread this stuff. Do you think it jives with our western world? The patrols?

Seems like Britain may have a problem in a London suburb. If Britain has the will they can deal with it if they want and have the will. If they think the patrol has gone too far and if they are not citizens of the UK, they can deport them. There are also other ways.

But I am still more worried about Washington Laws than Sharia Law.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

So now its about brutality of attacks?

No, the frequency and magnitude of which they happen is what matters more.

Islam is a "hate organization"? :roll:
I can already say this debate and thread is going to go nowhere because of ignorant, broad generalized statements like this.

Yes Islam is a religion of hate.

Is lynching somehow better than beheading?

Again, freuqency and magnitude. KKK is a weak little gang and has only gotten weaker.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

But sharia law? I mean you have to agree that Islam would have to change before it really is accepted here.

There is a lot of generalizibility in the statement.

For one not all Islam believers want sharia.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Not sure the question/poll is phrased the right way. If anything, Western ideologies are in competition with ideologies more prevalent in nations where Islam is dominant. In that context, it matches with history as those ideologies have always been in competition with plenty of war along the way. I've often said that the aptitude of the people in those nations where Islam is dominant are incompatible with more western social and governmental thinking. It seems to be true throughout history, and is still true today.

The question is right. I am trying to highlight, or at least am hoping too, that we are not at war with Islam. But we are not at peace with it either. It is Islam that is in need of change. I mean actively killing Muslims by Isis? Really any radical group. The west will not peacefully coexist with Islam until Islam changes. That is my view anyway.

If we are at war with Islam, then by default we would be at war with better than 40+ nations (roughly the number of nations where Islam is dominant by say 75% or more of the population.) On that point alone I would agree with you. The problem though is much deeper than that.

I'll elaborate on my earlier point.

Islam does have some growing up to do, just as other religious ideologies have already been forced to do historically. The issue is Islam, of the monotheistic religions, has the most text designed to bridge the gap between "religious authority" and government. As such has the most in it designed to be a social control mechanism that itself is incompatible with more Western sociological and governmental thinking. We know this is true as nations that lean Islam tend to have more more oppressive style governments. Islam is the furthest behind the curve when it comes to sociological evolution. Not always the case but explains well the tension in the region among the various splinters of Islam. Military dictators and/or other ideological dictators where freedoms are diminished is the expected result one way or another.

That as an ideology tends to put into competition dealing with Western sociological and governmental ideologies. On that level it is kin to dealing with other "oppressive" governments, like our prior fights against Communism and Socialism. Our problem, and our inconsistency with foreign policy, is if there is something in it for us we tend to overlook these things, like Saudi Arabia or United Arab Emirates or many others. Try walking down the street out in public in Saudi Arabia with a Bible in your hand and see where that puts you. But when there is little to nothing in it for us, they are more likely to be labeled a problem.

In that sense we are at war with Islam, but it is a larger ideological competition that has been going on ever since monotheism. It has cost plenty of lives along the way in this underline and never really taking a break fight. Sure, the nations change and the conditions change but at the root of it all is a real difference of opinion on what is and is not acceptable society.

Your issue is those that make up ISIS did not show up yesterday, those people have been there a very long time and are taking advantage of several situations both in Syria and Iraq. A civil war on one and a weakened government/military in another. The ideology of their splinter of Islam is not only incompatible with their Islamic neighbors but is also incompatible with everyone else. Then again, in the right hands any religion can become totally incompatible with everyone else. History proves that, just as it proves an ideological fight is always around the corner. Social, governmental, religious, or otherwise.

Now do you understand why I question how the question/poll was phrased?
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

If Islam is fascistic then those that want to be abide by it let them be patrolled by sharia law officers. Certainly the sharia law officers cannot and should not have the right to oppress those that do not prescribe by it freely!

Those that would have difficulties to prescribe to the oppression of sharia law patrol officers are people that believe value freedom more than oppression. Those can be (and are not limited to): Shallow Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, or people from other religions.

If some idiots want oppression because they are afraid the uncertainty of freedom, then I do not see why should be stand between these masochistic tendencies as long as it is voluntary? People suffer far worse with masochistic tendencies and are free to do so if it is voluntary.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

That's very heinous, so the KKK is right up there with the jihadists. I wonder why Obama hasn't gone after them, afterall they dragged a black man for 3.5 miles behind a truck.

They caught the 3 suspects before the sun set that day. The cops were like: "We just recently regained two of our citizens from state prison. They are known white supremacists with SS and Swastika tattoos. Anyone care to guess who might have done this?"
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

They caught the 3 suspects before the sun set that day. The cops were like: "We just recently regained two of our citizens from state prison. They are known white supremacists with SS and Swastika tattoos. Anyone care to guess who might have done this?"

I'm talking about why hasn't he gone after the KKK, not the 3 men.
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

I'm talking about why hasn't he gone after the KKK, not the 3 men.

Because a few bad apples don't ruin the KKK doctrine?
 
Re: Is the West at war with Islam?

Because a few bad apples don't ruin the KKK doctrine?

That almost makes it sound like the KKK is okay.
 
Back
Top Bottom