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How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

  • Total voters
    55
rathi said:
No, it means that roughly every two weeks a women will have to seriously worry about her safety by some stalker following her around. That is not acceptable by any stretch, even more so because so many others condone it.
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I'm a 52 year old still attractive woman, and before I was 50 I was younger and attractive, and worked in a few major cities. I never had a stalker, nor did any of my friends have a stalker. A stalker is someone who follows you repeatedly, harasses you, and seriously threatens your safety. How on Earth did you come to the conclusion that every 2 weeks a woman has to "seriously worry about her safety" because some men call out to her as she walks by? Do you know how many men have done exactly what was done in this video to me, my sister, my friends, my co-workers, my female in-laws, and so on, for decades? Lots. This wasn't just invented the day before yesterday and isn't exclusive to NYC. Never at any time in this video was she being "stalked" by any definition a cop would give you of a stalker.
 
Dragonfly said:
Ummm.....name a popular all-female professional sport televised on national TV with regular frequency?
Who's the female Neil Degrasse Tyson?
Who's the female Warren Buffett?

Also - do you think the Kartrasian shows, and Real Housewife shows portray women in a wonderful light?

Was Edith Bunker or Peg Bundy a great portrayal of women? Who were the great doctors on MASH, and what was the lead female character's main purpose on the show?

Name a show where the top detective that solves all the crimes is a female character?
I can list off at least a half a dozen men who've had that role. Who's the female version of Baretta, Kojak, Magnum PI, Iron Sides, Rockford....
Was there a female MacGyver?

Sure, some men on some tv shows are portrayed as idiots.
Apparently that's a reflection of reality.
Right?
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Women's tennis, figure skating, and gymnastics get network showing in the weekend prime times.
Who is Neil Degrasse Tyson?
Oprah Winfrey is wealthy.
Edith Bunker was a character on a show intended to shock. Same with Peg Bundy
How many female doctors were in the army in the Korean War?
Murder She Wrote had a female lead.
 
Dragonfly said:
What 10 hours of street harassment looks like - CNN.com

Now some of it is outright harassment, but is all of it?

Please watch the rather short video.
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The only incidents I would consider harassment are the guys who walked along with her. That would be extremely uncomfortable, but any normal woman who wasn't conducting an experiment (or setting up an intentional provocative scene which I suspect) would not continue walking on a city street if that was happening. She would have changed directions, entered a store, or otherwise gotten away from the creepy stalker.

The thing that raises a red flag for me is where was the camera during this 10 hours? And those people walking with her would not have noticed that somebody ahead of them was video taping it all? That just doesn't ring authentic to me. But I wasn't there and I could be wrong.

As for the whistles and comments as she passed by, no big deal. No harm. No foul. Certainly not harassment. In some cultures that would be considered a compliment.
 
Dragonfly said:
You don't think anything that happened in that video fits this definition???

to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct

Here, let me paraphrase it to be most clear.

to create an unpleasant situation by uninvited and unwelcome verbal conduct

Nothing like that came across to you in that video?
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No, absolutely nothing like that happened.

Saying "hello" to someone passing by doesn't create an unpleasant situation regardless of if it's invited or not, at least in the given context.

It's fine that this extremist doesn't want men talking to her but that doesn't make saying "hello" harassment.
 
JumpinJack said:
The video isn't about LOOKING or APPRECIATING. It's about uninvited, unwelcome verbal conduct. And a couple of instances of physical conduct (where two men walk right next to her for several minutes). Don't get a brief, tasteful appreciative look confused with intimidation or harassment. As a woman, I notice a good lookin' man, for sure. But I don't intrude on his day by yelling to him what I like or don't like about his appearance. He's a stranger, for gosh sakes.

And don't forget that when it's a man talking to or yelling at a woman, that isn't about appreciation at all. It's another form of "putting her in her place." You don't do that to someone who is at your level or above your level, do you? No, you don't.

It's no different if the man is saying "Hey, beautiful" or "Damn!" from "Hey, ugly." It's not WHAT they are saying. It's that they are walking up to a stranger and giving an opinion on her various parts, when they weren't asked. It's not about dating or romance. It's about control and even hostility sometimes.

Most women don't hate men at all. After all, most women are mothers of men, sisters of men, aunts of men. Women aren't killing men every day. Women are the nurturers of the family, usually. The caregivers. It sells them short to try and portray them as man-hating feminists.

This is just about a normal gal walking along, with things on her mind, being verbally accosted repeatedly along the way, when she hasn't done or said anything to invite that. That just doesn't happen to men.
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Well said!
 
Harassment is punishable by law in NY. Why didn't she get a cop involved if she felt she was being harassed?
 
tres borrachos said:
Harassment is punishable by law in NY. Why didn't she get a cop involved if she felt she was being harassed?
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Some types of harassment are illegal, others are not.

What these guys did was not illegal. That does not mean they were not harassing her.

Are you really going to get hung up on the semantics? Would you feel better if the phrase used was "inappropriately hitting on random women" ?
 
Visbek said:
Some types of harassment are illegal, others are not.

What these guys did was not illegal. That does not mean they were not harassing her.

Are you really going to get hung up on the semantics? Would you feel better if the phrase used was "inappropriately hitting on random women" ?
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N.Y. Penal Law § 240.26 - Harassment in the second degree

A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another follows a person in or about a public place or places; or (3) He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no legitimate purpose. Subdivisions two and three of this section shall not apply to activities regulated by the national labor relations act, as amended, the railway labor act, as amended, or the federal employment labor management act, as amended. Harassment in the second degree is a violation.
 
Visbek said:
Some types of harassment are illegal, others are not.

What these guys did was not illegal. That does not mean they were not harassing her.

Are you really going to get hung up on the semantics? Would you feel better if the phrase used was "inappropriately hitting on random women" ?
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Oh, c'mon. Semantics is what makes the internet go 'round.
 
tres borrachos said:
Harassment is punishable by law in NY. Why didn't she get a cop involved if she felt she was being harassed?
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Because the specific purpose of this video was to show how common catcalling is which has nothing to do with cops. Why ask a question with such an obvious answer?
.
 
tres borrachos said:
N.Y. Penal Law § 240.26 - Harassment in the second degree
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Nice editing.

§ 240.26 Harassment in the second degree.
A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with
intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:
1. He or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects such other
person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or
2. He or she follows a person in or about a public place or places; or
3. He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts
which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no
legitimate purpose.

In theory, the guy following her for 5 minutes could be harassment. In practice, it would be impossible to prove to a level where the guy could get busted.

Realistically, the police are not going to arrest every guy who follows a woman for 5 minutes. I wouldn't want to live in a city with that heavy of a police presence. Nor is the advocacy group calling for such draconian measures.

So again.... The men's behavior was legal. Inappropriate, occasionally creepy, but legal.
 
tres borrachos said:
Women's tennis, figure skating, and gymnastics get network showing in the weekend prime times.
Who is Neil Degrasse Tyson?
Oprah Winfrey is wealthy.
Edith Bunker was a character on a show intended to shock. Same with Peg Bundy
How many female doctors were in the army in the Korean War?
Murder She Wrote had a female lead.
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weekend and prime time are oxymorons

tres borrachos said:
Harassment is punishable by law in NY. Why didn't she get a cop involved if she felt she was being harassed?
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:lamo :lamo :lamo

don't know much about NYC cops, do you?
 
Gathomas88 said:
Which are all roles women tend to naturally gravitate towards as well, as they tend to cater to female strengths and female interests. It doesn't mean that they are not respectable professions, or that there is not wealth and prestige to be gained there. It also does not mean that women cannot seek out other professions if they so choose.

It simply means that men are predisposed to be more noteworthy in some fields, and women in others.

Why is the Left so fundamentally opposed to acknowledging the simple reality that men and women are, on a biological and behavioral level, different?

There is no shame in it.
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Yes and no. To what extent it is possible to truly separate sex from gender roles is incredibly tricky. So let's take instead some general gender role assumptions: 1) women are nurturing and in so doing, protective 2) men are public figures, often in charge of guarding and creating the public sphere.

Now let's take a look at teaching. In the beginning, pre-adult teaching was a man's world. It afforded him some prestige as a leader in the public sphere (albeit, not quite professionalized) and guiding pupils to become part of that public sphere. But as time went on the meaning of pre-adult teaching shifted. With the growth of colleges and universities, men were joining those circles more often. Far greater prestige was afforded to college and university teaching-a male dominated field. Public and professional prestige was a man's benefit, not a woman's. Where prestige went, so too did men, leaving women to pick up the slack where prestige was removed.

That being said, either because of men's expectations for themselves or because of some inner-drive from women as mothers, advocates, and teachers, public school education (if one removes administration from the equation) is incredibly female-dominated. We perpetuate it, perhaps to some extent of a biological or neurological difference, but also largely because society accelerates whatever (if any) inner inclinations there are.
 
Fiddytree said:
Yes and no. To what extent it is possible to truly separate sex from gender roles is incredibly tricky. So let's take instead some general gender role assumptions: 1) women are nurturing and in so doing, protective 2) men are public figures, often in charge of guarding and creating the public sphere.

Now let's take a look at teaching. In the beginning, pre-adult teaching was a man's world. It afforded him some prestige as a leader in the public sphere (albeit, not quite professionalized) and guiding pupils to become part of that public sphere. But as time went on the meaning of pre-adult teaching shifted. With the growth of colleges and universities, men were joining those circles more often. Far greater prestige was afforded to college and university teaching-a male dominated field. Public and professional prestige was a man's benefit, not a woman's. Where prestige went, so too did men, leaving women to pick up the slack where prestige was removed.

That being said, either because of men's expectations for themselves or because of some inner-drive from women as mothers, advocates, and teachers, public school education (if one removes administration from the equation) is incredibly female-dominated. We perpetuate it, perhaps to some extent of a biological or neurological difference, but also largely because society accelerates whatever (if any) inner inclinations there are.
Click to expand...

Tell you what. Start paying public school teachers $150,000 a year, and you'll see how quickly it becomes a male dominated field.
 
Visbek said:
Nice editing.

§ 240.26 Harassment in the second degree.
A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with
intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:
1. He or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects such other
person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or
2. He or she follows a person in or about a public place or places; or
3. He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts
which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no
legitimate purpose.

In theory, the guy following her for 5 minutes could be harassment. In practice, it would be impossible to prove to a level where the guy could get busted.

Realistically, the police are not going to arrest every guy who follows a woman for 5 minutes. I wouldn't want to live in a city with that heavy of a police presence. Nor is the advocacy group calling for such draconian measures.

So again.... The men's behavior was legal. Inappropriate, occasionally creepy, but legal.
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Nice lying post about me editing.

Without My Consent | Paths to justice for survivors of online harassment.

I copied it word for word from there. A site dedicated to combating harassment. Don't make false accusations.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Because the specific purpose of this video was to show how common catcalling is which has nothing to do with cops. Why ask a question with such an obvious answer?
.
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The specific purpose of the video was to get her acting jobs.

Catcalling. Wow, what a major problem for this country. It should be a top priority. Maybe we can tap a Catcalling Czar to end this crisis.

25 years from now Shoshana will miss the days men paid attention to her.
 
Fiddytree said:
Yes and no. To what extent it is possible to truly separate sex from gender roles is incredibly tricky. So let's take instead some general gender role assumptions: 1) women are nurturing and in so doing, protective 2) men are public figures, often in charge of guarding and creating the public sphere.

Now let's take a look at teaching. In the beginning, pre-adult teaching was a man's world. It afforded him some prestige as a leader in the public sphere (albeit, not quite professionalized) and guiding pupils to become part of that public sphere. But as time went on the meaning of pre-adult teaching shifted. With the growth of colleges and universities, men were joining those circles more often. Far greater prestige was afforded to college and university teaching-a male dominated field. Public and professional prestige was a man's benefit, not a woman's. Where prestige went, so too did men, leaving women to pick up the slack where prestige was removed.

That being said, either because of men's expectations for themselves or because of some inner-drive from women as mothers, advocates, and teachers, public school education (if one removes administration from the equation) is incredibly female-dominated. We perpetuate it, perhaps to some extent of a biological or neurological difference, but also largely because society accelerates whatever (if any) inner inclinations there are.
Click to expand...

Have you ever read any Sarah Hrdy? I suspect you would find some of her stuff fascinating. She is an evolutionary anthropologist and primatologist whose work looks alot at gender roles and in particular female roles and evolution. http://www.amazon.com/Mother-Nature-Maternal-Instincts-Species/dp/0345408934
 
paddymcdougall said:
Tell you what. Start paying public school teachers $150,000 a year, and you'll see how quickly it becomes a male dominated field.
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Well, that's a problem, considering how schools are funded. That being said, you may start seeing some changes already. Academia is experiencing a decline. For many, it pays more to teach children than it does to teach adults and/or research.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
The only men that American culture is "hard on" on men of color. Incidentally, your example only points out white men who not only have it great in American culture, but who also have it the absolute best in American culture.
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Give me a break with this racist crap.
 
tres borrachos said:
The specific purpose of the video was to get her acting jobs.

Catcalling. Wow, what a major problem for this country. It should be a top priority. Maybe we can tap a Catcalling Czar to end this crisis.

25 years from now Shoshana will miss the days men paid attention to her.
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I imagine it gets tedious after a while, but it's just people saying words. What ever happened to sticks and stones?
 
CLAX1911 said:
Give me a break with this racist crap.
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Give me a break with this reactionary crap. I can tell you're on those white dudes who sees any undesired references to whiteness as "racism" so I'll give you a test to see if you can overcome your own defense mechanisms.

Racism is defined as the treatment of one or more races as superior to others. How did my comment treat one or more races as superior to others?

Be specific.
 
tres borrachos said:
The specific purpose of the video was to get her acting jobs.
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No, the video was produced for an organization that advocates the end of catcalling. It's specific purpose was to raise awareness. Why are you so invested in denigrating this random woman that you can't just acknowledge this simple truth?

Catcalling. Wow, what a major problem for this country. It should be a top priority. Maybe we can tap a Catcalling Czar to end this crisis.
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I don't consider this topic to be that important either. In fact, I find the fact that mainstream feminists focus on this topic so much to be evidence of how out of touch they are, but that's not what we're talking about now. We're talking about how you asked a dumb question with an extremely obvious answer.
 
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ThePlayDrive said:
Give me a break with this reactionary crap. I can tell you're on those white dudes who sees any undesired references to whiteness as "racism" so I'll give you a test to see if you can overcome your own defense mechanisms.

Racism is defined as the treatment of one or more races as superior to others. How did my comment treat one or more races as superior to others?

Be specific.
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I am not playing your game.

To say that nobody has it worse than the black man is absurd.

The reason why the black man has such a hard time isn't because of anybody else but them. They are told by everybody that their problems are caused by white people. And they can't make it so just give up. It's black people that do this. I know you are going to call me a Nazi and a klansman and everything else because of my statement, but that is just because you know it's true.

How many black men were raised by single mothers? How many black men admired some two bit thug that sings nursery rhymes to them about bitches and hoes? How many of them were raised to feel they were inferior, not by white people but by their black parent?

It's easy to say you have it harder than anybody else ifyou can blame somebody for your predicament.

Man up.
 
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