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How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????

How Much Of This Is Truly Harassment????


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I'm not saying it's her fault. I'm saying I wouldn't have put myself in that position of being treated that way, by men who are thoughtless. It wasn't WHAT she was wearing. It was how she carried herself, and the image she projected. THe most significant issue was the audience. As I said, if she did the same thing walking down WAll Street, the reaction would likely have been very different. You need to have the sense to avoid being treated this way- but then the whole point of the video was to make men look inferior.

She had a purpose. This wasn't just random. She did not engage or otherwise provoke. She walked. Not making eye contact. Probably like many men walk around NYC all the time.

I'm for sure in the camp of some of the comments are not harassment.
 
Avoiding eye contact, not saying anything, expressing an unfriendly demeanor in general.

Here in Texas when someone offers you a "good morning" or " how ya doin?", it's good manners to respond in kind. Doesn't mater if you know them or not.

BTW: I mentioned nothing about her clothes because there was nothing over-the-top slutty.


Here in Nebraska most of the time when you walk by someone, granted it's not as crowded in the street like in NYC, you generally say a hello, good <morning/afternoon>, or give a little nod. I don't take it as harassment unless the guy started pestering me about getting my number or following me like a couple of the guys in the video did. I found the comment that guy in the purple made "I just saw a thousand dollars or something" kind of funny, if someone said that to me on the street, I would no doubt laugh about it.
 
Here in Nebraska most of the time when you walk by someone, granted it's not as crowded in the street like in NYC, you generally say a hello, good <morning/afternoon>, or give a little nod. I don't take it as harassment unless the guy started pestering me about getting my number or following me like a couple of the guys in the video did. I found the comment that guy in the purple made "I just saw a thousand dollars or something" kind of funny, if someone said that to me on the street, I would no doubt laugh about it.

Yea that "$1000" thing sounded like a pimp. 8)
 
What 10 hours of street harassment looks like - CNN.com

Now some of it is outright harassment, but is all of it?

Please watch the rather short video.
There is no single answer to this question because harassment has subjective parameters. What one person considers a compliment another considers a disturbance. For instance, men used to make many comments about women's bodies in the workplace that are firmly considered sexual harassment today.

My own opinion is that people determine their own boundaries and that we should respect boundaries that have been set and, in cases where we don't know a person's boundaries, we should take the most careful approach. Therefore, if you know a woman does not like comments about her appearance, don't make them. If you see a stranger on the street who you are attracted to, don't shout out comments about her appearance. If you still shout out a comment, then look at her response. If she doesn't respond well, definitely don't keep doing it.

One more comment. I think a lot of men don't realize that many women have the threat of being sexually assaulted in the back of their mind much of time that they are walking by themselves. Men tend to be larger than most women so size alone can be scary, but then consider the added fear of assault and you can understand why some women are, at the least, uncomfortable by "catcalls". (What if I don't respond the right way? Is he going to follow me? If I smile, will he take that as an invitation and then get mad when I tell him "no"?)
 
I'm not saying it's her fault. I'm saying I wouldn't have put myself in that position of being treated that way, by men who are thoughtless. It wasn't WHAT she was wearing. It was how she carried herself, and the image she projected.
That's one of the main points of those who take issue with "catcalling" - certain men take certain appearances as an invitation to comment on said appearances when they aren't.
 
That's one of the main points of those who take issue with "catcalling" - certain men take certain appearances as an invitation to comment on said appearances when they aren't.

Some people would suggest then that "she's just asking for it".
 
Some people would suggest then that "she's just asking for it".
Which, again, is why they argue that what people take as invitation is not, in fact, an invitation. In other words, what people take her "asking" is not, in fact, asking.
 
This is one of the reasons I want to leave America. I have been to several other countries where walking on the street is common across the country, not just in the big cities. When you stop and talk to a female, they smile, they talk back to you and they are generally pleasant and don't mind conversation. In the states, I have noticed many women are high nosed, ignore you and a lot of times have the attitude of the girl in this video who seems to be to good to talk to anyone. A lot of times, simply saying hi and being friendly suffices for most people and they will move on. Not to mention, if it is obvious a woman is being harassed on a busy street corner, a lot of times other men will step in to protect her.
 
Which, again, is why they argue that what people take as invitation is not, in fact, an invitation. In other words, what people take her "asking" is not, in fact, asking.

Actually it is asking. Women use this excuse all the time. That just because they are dressed a certain way does not mean they are asking for attention. Well, I disagree, they are asking for attention. They just want to pick and choose who that attention comes from. If you approach a woman dressed to get attention and she likes you, then that is what she wants. But if she does not like you, then she will use the above line that she is not asking for attention.
 
Actually it is asking. Women use this excuse all the time. That just because they are dressed a certain way does not mean they are asking for attention. Well, I disagree, they are asking for attention. They just want to pick and choose who that attention comes from. If you approach a woman dressed to get attention and she likes you, then that is what she wants. But if she does not like you, then she will use the above line that she is not asking for attention.
There are certainly some women who fit your description, sure. There are also women who do not fit your description. These are the women who tend to be against cat-calling.
 
There are certainly some women who fit your description, sure. There are also women who do not fit your description. These are the women who tend to be against cat-calling.
They need to grow some thicker skin. Maybe understand that it is a compliment. When I was overseas, if you complimented a woman on how she looked, you usually got a smile and probably a giggle as they kept on walking. They are not stupid, they know guys are looking at them and they just accept that as a natural thing and they appreaciate the compliments. Im not going to say that anything goes. There certainly is a line between a tasteful compliment and a sexual compliment. If that's the worst they got from 10 hours of walking thru the streets of a big city, then I don't see the issue. I would be interested to see all the other comments they did not include in the video.
 
For what is in the video most of it is not harassment but there are a few guys who are harassing her.

Also maybe its just me, but I really question the validity of most of these types of videos. Ive lived in a few major cities. And yes some guys make comments to a woman walking by. However Ive never seen anyone harassed by almost every guy she walks by. I think there was something else that we arent seeing.
 
For what is in the video most of it is not harassment but there are a few guys who are harassing her.

Also maybe its just me, but I really question the validity of most of these types of videos. Ive lived in a few major cities. And yes some guys make comments to a woman walking by. However Ive never seen anyone harassed by almost every guy she walks by. I think there was something else that we arent seeing.

That video was over a span of an entire day.

You're a man, so I'm sure you don't see it.

It is possible they stuck to a few specific areas of NYC where they knew they'd get certain reactions.

A few of those guys in the video were truly creepy.
 
For what is in the video most of it is not harassment but there are a few guys who are harassing her.

Also maybe its just me, but I really question the validity of most of these types of videos. Ive lived in a few major cities. And yes some guys make comments to a woman walking by. However Ive never seen anyone harassed by almost every guy she walks by. I think there was something else that we arent seeing.

She walked around for ten hours and they managed to get 2 minutes of video of guys hitting on her.

Frankly, I expected much worse. No woman should ever have to deal with a guy like that following her around for five minutes, but other than that, sometimes when you walk around people talk to you. But a very cute girl, walking around in tight fitting clothes in busy streets for ten hours was "harassed" really only once in my opinion, and even when you add in rude comments, it still only adds up to less than 1% of her day.
 
That video was over a span of an entire day.

You're a man, so I'm sure you don't see it.

It is possible they stuck to a few specific areas of NYC where they knew they'd get certain reactions.

A few of those guys in the video were truly creepy.

I dont see what my sex has to do with anything. I have eyes and ears. I crazy to believe i know, but I am related to and even have female friends. The You're a man argument is dumb.

And yes, some of those guys were creepy as hell. And they could have targeted certain areas to provoke a higher than normal amount of harassment. But my point is there are plenty of youtube/private videos that are designed to withhold information or mislead to prove a point. I don't know what they did or didn't do, or how much of this was legitimate and how much was staged or coerced. But i do question the validity of any of these types of videos.
 
None of this was harassment.
Rude, disrespectful and even creepy in some instances? Yes!
But it was not harassment at this point
For it to have been harassment it has to fit specific criteria, which it clearly does not.


There is no single answer to this question because harassment has subjective parameters.
That really isn't the case.
While you seem to be looking at only how the person feels about what is directed towards them (the only subjective portion), it still has to fit within defined criteria (parameters) to be harassment.
So while a person might not like being nicely told they are beautiful, it must meet specific parameters to be considered harassment. Whether that be legally, or just in general.

While the detailed definitions are always best, you can find abbreviated definitions who's word usage reflects that of the more detailed definitions.
Harassment has specific parameters in that it must be persistent, systematic and/or continued, as well as unwanted.
A single incident (unless involving a crime), does not count as harassment.
And someone thinking they have been harassed doesn't mean they have been.

ha·rass (h-rs, hrs)
tr.v. ha·rassed, ha·rass·ing, ha·rass·es

1. To irritate or torment persistently.​
harassment - definition of harassment by The Free Dictionary


ha·rass
verb \hə-ˈras; ˈher-əs, ˈha-rəs\

: to annoy or bother (someone) in a constant or repeated way​
Harass - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



harassment
(either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n.
the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious. Such activities may be the basis for a lawsuit if due to discrimination based on race or sex, a violation on the statutory limitations on collection agencies, involve revenge by an ex-spouse, or be shown to be a form of blackmail ("I'll stop bothering you, if you'll go to bed with me"). The victim may file a petition for a "stay away" (restraining) order, intended to prevent contact by the offensive party. A systematic pattern of harassment by an employee against another worker may subject the employer to a lawsuit for failure to protect the worker.

harassment legal definition of harassment



Had these guys done this to her every time she passed by them and she made it clear it was unwanted, then it would be harassment, even if they were giving her an actual compliment.





A good bit of that video looked like harassment to me, granted some was more mild than others. Still though, a sad statement if that is what a female has to experience just walking about New York. Perhaps it was how I was raised but nothing in that video is something I would do to a woman just walking by.
Neither would I.
The problem is that what is seen could be harassment, it just isn't under these circumstances.
It wasn't persistent, it wasn't continuous and she didn't even make it known it was unwanted.
It was a one time incident from each of the individuals.
It can't even be said that any of the guys intended their behavior to be harassment or intimidation.

So here is the thing. If she lets them know their behavior is unwanted, even if it was just nice words, and they again do the same thing, they then have engaged in harassment.
As it is though, no.




Most of the instances shown definitely count.
None of them do.

See above replies.
 
Tonality and body language can convey a lot of meaning which can be difficult to see here. I'm sure that a lot of the 'good mornin' comments come across as a lot more threatening when the speaker is leering at you.

Actually it is asking. Women use this excuse all the time. That just because they are dressed a certain way does not mean they are asking for attention. Well, I disagree, they are asking for attention. They just want to pick and choose who that attention comes from. If you approach a woman dressed to get attention and she likes you, then that is what she wants. But if she does not like you, then she will use the above line that she is not asking for attention.

I disagree that you can figure out what a women 'wants' from how they're dressed. Particularly when they're wearing such a bland outfit???
 
None of this was harassment.
Rude, disrespectful and even creepy in some instances? Yes!
But it was not harassment at this point
For it to have been harassment it has to fit specific criteria, which it clearly does not.


That really isn't the case.
While you seem to be looking at only how the person feels about what is directed towards them (the only subjective portion), it still has to fit within defined criteria (parameters) to be harassment.
So while a person might not like being nicely told they are beautiful, it must meet specific parameters to be considered harassment. Whether that be legally, or just in general.

While the detailed definitions are always best, you can find abbreviated definitions who's word usage reflects that of the more detailed definitions.
Harassment has specific parameters in that it must be persistent, systematic and/or continued, as well as unwanted.
A single incident (unless involving a crime), does not count as harassment.
And someone thinking they have been harassed doesn't mean they have been.

ha·rass (h-rs, hrs)
tr.v. ha·rassed, ha·rass·ing, ha·rass·es

1. To irritate or torment persistently.​
harassment - definition of harassment by The Free Dictionary


ha·rass
verb \hə-ˈras; ˈher-əs, ˈha-rəs\

: to annoy or bother (someone) in a constant or repeated way​
Harass - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



harassment
(either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n.
the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious. Such activities may be the basis for a lawsuit if due to discrimination based on race or sex, a violation on the statutory limitations on collection agencies, involve revenge by an ex-spouse, or be shown to be a form of blackmail ("I'll stop bothering you, if you'll go to bed with me"). The victim may file a petition for a "stay away" (restraining) order, intended to prevent contact by the offensive party. A systematic pattern of harassment by an employee against another worker may subject the employer to a lawsuit for failure to protect the worker.

harassment legal definition of harassment



Had these guys done this to her every time she passed by them and she made it clear it was unwanted, then it would be harassment, even if they were giving her an actual compliment.





Neither would I.
The problem is that what is seen could be harassment, it just isn't under these circumstances.
It wasn't persistent, it wasn't continuous and she didn't even make it known it was unwanted.
It was a one time incident from each of the individuals.
It can't even be said that any of the guys intended their behavior to be harassment or intimidation.

So here is the thing. If she lets them know their behavior is unwanted, even if it was just nice words, and they again do the same thing, they then have engaged in harassment.
As it is though, no.





None of them do.

See above replies.

Feminists want the approach of any female by a male to be harassment. All one has to do is just look at what kind of laws they are pushing and what they say. Feminists want women to basically not talk to or deal with men at all. Some feminists actually want to kill all men or limit them to 10% of the population. Just enough to keep the species going. Im not kidding, just google feminazi quotes and you will see what their agenda is right away. Equal rights was dealt with, not they have moved on to other agenda's. And because they are women, no one seems to question the things they say. Where as, if a man said that we should kill women and limit them to 10% of the population, they would be quickly criticized and you would never hear from them again. But these particular feminists wrote several books and became rich of the sale of those books with those ideas in them.
 
They need to grow some thicker skin. Maybe understand that it is a compliment. When I was overseas, if you complimented a woman on how she looked, you usually got a smile and probably a giggle as they kept on walking. They are not stupid, they know guys are looking at them and they just accept that as a natural thing and they appreaciate the compliments. Im not going to say that anything goes. There certainly is a line between a tasteful compliment and a sexual compliment. If that's the worst they got from 10 hours of walking thru the streets of a big city, then I don't see the issue. I would be interested to see all the other comments they did not include in the video.
I think people are entitled to define their own boundaries. I think it's fine for someone to be uncomfortable with comments about their appearance - even if those comments are intended as compliments. I don't think they "need to grow thicker skin" unless that's how they choose to deal with their discomfort. However, if they choose to deal with their discomfort by setting boundaries with people and/or trying to inspire social change, then that's fine too.
 
Feminists want the approach of any female by a male to be harassment. All one has to do is just look at what kind of laws they are pushing and what they say. Feminists want women to basically not talk to or deal with men at all. Some feminists actually want to kill all men or limit them to 10% of the population. Just enough to keep the species going. Im not kidding, just google feminazi quotes and you will see what their agenda is right away. Equal rights was dealt with, not they have moved on to other agenda's. And because they are women, no one seems to question the things they say. Where as, if a man said that we should kill women and limit them to 10% of the population, they would be quickly criticized and you would never hear from them again. But these particular feminists wrote several books and became rich of the sale of those books with those ideas in them.

Did you get tragically humiliated at prom or something???
 
That really isn't the case.

sexual harrassment : uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical behavior of a sexual nature especially by a person in authority toward a subordinate (as an employee or student)

sexual harassment : unsolicited verbal or physical behaviour of a sexual nature. Sexual harassment may embrace any sexually motivated behaviour considered offensive by the recipient.

Sexual harassment - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

All of the comments in the video fit both definitions because all of the comments were uninvited, unwelcome and unsolicited. Like I said, it's subjective.
 
Feminists want the approach of any female by a male to be harassment. All one has to do is just look at what kind of laws they are pushing and what they say. Feminists want women to basically not talk to or deal with men at all. Some feminists actually want to kill all men or limit them to 10% of the population. Just enough to keep the species going. Im not kidding, just google feminazi quotes and you will see what their agenda is right away. Equal rights was dealt with, not they have moved on to other agenda's. And because they are women, no one seems to question the things they say. Where as, if a man said that we should kill women and limit them to 10% of the population, they would be quickly criticized and you would never hear from them again. But these particular feminists wrote several books and became rich of the sale of those books with those ideas in them.
Are you an MRA?
 
I'm sure that the point of the video was probably to shame men for acting like asses, but seriously, by looking at the men in the video, who acted like they did, I wouldn't expect otherwise. Put the woman doing a similar "experiment" on Wall Street, and you'll very likely get a completely different result.

I concur.

I wonder how many of these men actually hold down a job ?

I did notice an Obama phone.
 
I dont see what my sex has to do with anything. I have eyes and ears. I crazy to believe i know, but I am related to and even have female friends. The You're a man argument is dumb.

As dumb as white people saying racism against blacks doesn't exist anymore? :roll:
 
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