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Atheists.

What type of atheist are you?


  • Total voters
    33
Which had nothing whatsoever to do with atheism, Stalin never said that his atheism had a thing to do with his actions, that was his politics. Hitler, however, was very, very clear that his Christianity was the direct cause of his actions against the Jews.

All true (or at least nothing I'm willing to debate the particulars of at this time), but not the exact meaning of "discrediting" I was referring to. I wasn't talking about whether one stood as an exemplar for his faith or atheism, but whether the behavior of the individual had any bearing on the existence of a god.
 
All true (or at least nothing I'm willing to debate the particulars of at this time), but not the exact meaning of "discrediting" I was referring to. I wasn't talking about whether one stood as an exemplar for his faith or atheism, but whether the behavior of the individual had any bearing on the existence of a god.

No behavior has anything to do with the existence of a god. Gods either exist or they do not. What people believe about them does not affect that fact in any way. However, people can certainly allow their beliefs to influence their actions and that, as in the case of Hitler, certainly led him to act in certain ways that someone without those beliefs would have a hard time justifying.
 
In regard to the Abrahamic god and the god of all the religions I am familiar with, I am a positive atheist. In regard to the deistic god I am a negative atheist.

I would also like to remind people that atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. You can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.
 
Extraordinary. We're three pages in and no one's tried to say that atheism is a religion. There really is a god.
 
Because ultimately that's no different than discrediting atheism on the basis of Stalin murdering a gazillion people.

You're talking about a conclusion. I'm talking about a point of reference that influences someone to read up on things and think of those things in context of that point of reference. I don't see anything wrong with someone reading up on atheism because of state atheism.
 
You're talking about a conclusion. I'm talking about a point of reference that influences someone to read up on things and think of those things in context of that point of reference. I don't see anything wrong with someone reading up on atheism because of state atheism.

Posts #26 and #27 clarify the post of mine you just responded to.
 
That's always a tough one. On one hand I believe I'm not obligated to affirm or deny the existence of a god since we're born atheists, and were the subject of gods not to take place, I would never have been asked to affirm or deny them at all. That would most likely make me a soft atheist. On the other hand, the conversation does come up (at least on the interwebz, not so much irl), and in that instance I'm forced to make the statement that "as no evidence for gods have been forthcoming it's fair to conclude they don't exist." I suppose that's closer to positive atheism.
I have seen a few studies that claim we are not born atheist actually. We are born believers, with a section of our brain dedicated to the god theory.
 
I have seen a few studies that claim we are not born atheist actually. We are born believers, with a section of our brain dedicated to the god theory.

As has already been pointed out, we're born with a strong pattern recognition. That's not at all the same thing as "being dedicated to god theory." If you want to believe in a god, you have to either invent it or be told about it.
 
I didn't know there was any such thing as a positive atheist. Apparently there are at least 3 in the world. Good for them.
 
I personally consider it a fact that gods do not exist as written in most mainstream holy books. They are inconsistent with both logic and reality. To clarify, when I say fact, I mean fact in the same way I consider it fact that this forum objectively exists, or it's fact that Harry Potter doesn't exist. Barring some world shattering paradigm shift (e.g. this world is all a dream in my own/JK.Rowlings head) I will continue to consider it fact. With regards to the holy books, I am a positive atheist.

I strongly believe that there is no 'god' where god is a general deistic term (some kind of higher power yadda yadda) as it is inconsistent with reality as we observe it. I appreciate that I could be incorrect in this belief and our observation of the universe is limited. I also believe that deistic type gods are barely worth discussing due to their vagueness, and due to our limited observation. You may as well posit the existence of the Force from Star Wars. With regards to a 'deistic god', I am a negative atheist.
 
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As has already been pointed out, we're born with a strong pattern recognition. That's not at all the same thing as "being dedicated to god theory." If you want to believe in a god, you have to either invent it or be told about it.

Uhmmm I dont think that is necessarily true.... I think we are programmed to invent it, through our genetics and brain development.... and thats what has been shown.

I think it is more learned behavior to not believe in a "God"
 
Uhmmm I dont think that is necessarily true.... I think we are programmed to invent it, through our genetics and brain development.... and thats what has been shown.

Being born with creativity and the need to draw connections between different events is on the other side of the solar system from being born with a belief in god.
 
Being born with creativity and the need to draw connections between different events is on the other side of the solar system from being born with a belief in god.

See this is where you misunderstand... It is literally being born to have a belief in a creator as an evolutionary advantage, and almost necessity as a part of our intellect.

We are literally biologically destined to believe in a God. Some thoughts are that such a notion developed evolutionarily because it helps curb anxiety and unifies communities, etc. etc.
 
Most of the time I'm an apatheist. I rarely think about religion or the concept of god and just go about my daily life. When pressed on the subject my simple answer is "I don't believe in gods". Negative atheist.
 
God simply doesn't compute in my mind. I don't ponder the existence of a god, multiple gods, or any form of supernatural being(s). It's a waste of synaptic energy. To indulge in such pondering, it might possibly kill neurons or shorten one's life. ;)
 
See this is where you misunderstand... It is literally being born to have a belief in a creator as an evolutionary advantage, and almost necessity as a part of our intellect.

Demonstrably and historically incorrect. Periods in history with the greatest Humanism also saw the greatest periods of scientific advancement. You can, in fact, even see this demonstrated during the Medieval Era as it correlates to art. Art during this period was decidedly iconic, as literal depictions of things (human, still life, landscape and architecture alike) were considered of the earthly and not regarded as important as the celestial (the after life). With the advancement of the Renaissance saw a greater focus on Humanism, the idea that literal depictions of the world were important, beautiful and perhaps even necessary. This is repeated in Classical periods in Greek and Roman civilization: as their religion ebbed and flowed, so too was this mirrored in the evolution of iconic art toward more literal (humanist) representations, and these too heralded the most significant advances in technology. Finally, the Age of Enlightenment was unique in it proposed the notion that the scientific discipline must be approached independently of faith. Since then, scientific advancement has progressed on a level that is almost exponential.

We are literally biologically destined to believe in a God.

Incorrect: we are literally, biologically wired to recognize patterns and connections that could lead one to believe in a God. That atheists, agnostics, and philosophies that aren't especially theological exist are proof that people will take those patterns to arrive at conclusions or believe systems that aren't related to a god at all. You're incorrectly assuming that your experiences are natural and universal, which is a dangerously egocentristic model to base your conclusions on.

Some thoughts are that such a notion developed evolutionarily because it helps curb anxiety and unifies communities, etc. etc.

Perhaps.
 
Demonstrably and historically incorrect. Periods in history with the greatest Humanism also saw the greatest periods of scientific advancement. You can, in fact, even see this demonstrated during the Medieval Era as it correlates to art. Art during this period was decidedly iconic, as literal depictions of things (human, still life, landscape and architecture alike) were considered of the earthly and not regarded as important as the celestial (the after life). With the advancement of the Renaissance saw a greater focus on Humanism, the idea that literal depictions of the world were important, beautiful and perhaps even necessary. This is repeated in Classical periods in Greek and Roman civilization: as their religion ebbed and flowed, so too was this mirrored in the evolution of iconic art toward more literal (humanist) representations, and these too heralded the most significant advances in technology. Finally, the Age of Enlightenment was unique in it proposed the notion that the scientific discipline must be approached independently of faith. Since then, scientific advancement has progressed on a level that is almost exponential.



Incorrect: we are literally, biologically wired to recognize patterns and connections that could lead one to believe in a God. That atheists, agnostics, and philosophies that aren't especially theological exist are proof that people will take those patterns to arrive at conclusions or believe systems that aren't related to a god at all. You're incorrectly assuming that your experiences are natural and universal, which is a dangerously egocentristic model to base your conclusions on.



Perhaps.

There are findings and scientific study that directly conflicts with what you are saying...
God gene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/weekinreview/12wade.html
"For atheists, it is not a particularly welcome thought that religion evolved because it conferred essential benefits on early human societies and their successors. If religion is a lifebelt, it is hard to portray it as useless."
--"For believers, it may seem threatening to think that the mind has been shaped to believe in gods, since the actual existence of the divine may then seem less likely."

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/is-religion-hardwired/
"Is religion hardwired?"


Obviously there are skeptics everywhere on every part of this... but it shows that your assertions are far from indisputable fact.
 
There are findings and scientific study that directly conflicts with what you are saying...
God gene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/weekinreview/12wade.html
"For atheists, it is not a particularly welcome thought that religion evolved because it conferred essential benefits on early human societies and their successors. If religion is a lifebelt, it is hard to portray it as useless."
--"For believers, it may seem threatening to think that the mind has been shaped to believe in gods, since the actual existence of the divine may then seem less likely."

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/is-religion-hardwired/
"Is religion hardwired?"


Obviously there are skeptics everywhere on every part of this... but it shows that your assertions are far from indisputable fact.

The "god gene" was based on one unpublished study, and the criticism rightfully points out that such monoamine neurotransmitters could be responsible for any of a number of beliefs. The term God Gene is, to put it as lightly as possible, pants-crappingly misleading, and is as unscientific a perspective as can be.

Your second link is nothing more than a commentary on the God Gene, addressed above.

Your third link is a collection of criticisms of the idea that people are born believing in a god, and doesn't support your position at all. Did you read it?

Here's some of the writer's observations:

"...but secular studies of religious belief have been bogged down by the fact that none of these theories are obviously testable by science. I have suggested several times on this site, though, that the “hardwired” theory is in principle testable: all you have to do is bring up children in an environment where they’re completely free of religious knowledge or influence, and see if they spontaneously come to conceive of (and maybe worship) a God. Unfortunately, that’s impossible, because we can’t do experiments with humans. And there’s virtually nowhere that one can raise a child without some exposure to religion.

But what I see here is not evidence against hardwiring, but an absence of any evidence.

Later, however, the kids do become creationists, but that’s imputed to cultural or parental indoctrination:

Likewise, where’s the evidence that their newfound creationism comes from absorbing it from their culture, rather than appearing spontaneously as a product of their genes at a later age? No reference is cited.

It goes on with the same pattern of observations, that being that nothing is cited, and that absence of evidence against natural-born religion is evidence for it...again, the most unscientific view possible. This site not only doesn't support your position, it tears it to shreds. All I can really do is thank you for bringing a site to my attention that supports my own position so perfectly.

And as I've already said and which you've ignored: That atheists, agnostics, and philosophies that aren't especially theological exist are proof that people will take those patterns to arrive at conclusions or believe systems that aren't related to a god at all.
 
IMO, to claim knowledge of the non-existence of an entity is not logically possible and is a faith based claim, meaning a claim without or despite contradicting evidence.

I am an agnostic atheist, I don't know and I don't believe.
 
It's alright. I already tried twice. I'm OK with you not getting it.

Being completely unwilling to simplify your point so that someone else may understand it better isn't typically a great way to keep that person interested in the conversation.

Your call.
 
Being completely unwilling to simplify your point so that someone else may understand it better isn't typically a great way to keep that person interested in the conversation.

Your call.

It's alright. I already tried twice. I'm ok with you not being interested in the conversation.
 
I guess the primary difference is that the chewing gum manufacturers don't actively incite violence. I've yet to see a pack of Big Red that has suggested I bash a homosexual's head in with a rock.

I've read some rather disturbing Bazooka Joe comics.
 
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