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Proof and Facts[W:76"283]

Is it appropriate to demand proof or facts on Debate Politics?

  • Total voters
    57
  • Poll closed .
Re: Proof and Facts

vasuderatorrent said:
That was the point of the OP. Everyone's opinion is justified. Proof is always ignored and is 100% pointless in this environment.

You can spend two or three months gathering proof but that would be dumb. It would be dismissed as wrong or unreliable.
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It wasn't ignored, it was contested in light of better evidence.
 
Re: Proof and Facts[W:76]

vasuderatorrent said:
Is it appropriate to demand proof and facts on Debate Politics?

From my observation 100% of posters on Debate Politics are anonymous. This is also the internet where words can be typed in any order to say anything imaginable. Concrete evidence can rarely be presented via the internet. I also think this is a place to express your opinion on interesting and non-interesting topics. Can't a person base their opinion upon a lie? Just because their opinion is based upon a lie this doesn't make their opinion any less valid. After all, it's an opinion. An opinion doesn't really hold much weight anyways. Sure occasionally an opinion can change someone's mind but that doesn't make it authoritative.

What do you guys think? Are proof and facts necessary when presenting your opinion?
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It depends. If facts help me win then I use them. If they mess up my case then they are irrelevant.
 
Re: Proof and Facts

vasuderatorrent said:
Why haven't you ever learned to read? and Why are you bragging about your incapacity to read? If you are too lazy to read then don't brag about it. If you are too ignorant to read then you shouldn't brag about that either.

If you are incapable of reading that's fine. Just don't brag about it. Keep that crap to yourself. How long was it? Two sentences?
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If he is ignorant then how would he know he can't read?
 
Re: Proof and Facts

ernst barkmann said:
its easy for him to make statements and say this is so and this is not so.

yet he provides nothing to prove either.

yet remains in denial when proof is provided by others.
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But my comments are all powerful fact... he should use them to win.
 
Re: Proof and Facts

Bodhisattva said:
If he is ignorant then how would he know he can't read?
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Are you saying he is lying? Read this:

TurtleDude said:
tl dr
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He is pretty much bragging about his incapacity. Are you suggesting that he is lying when he says, "tl dr" which translates to say, "too long, didn't read"?
 
Re: Proof and Facts

vasuderatorrent said:
Are you saying he is lying? Read this:



He is pretty much bragging about his incapacity. Are you suggesting that he is lying when he says, "tl dr" which translates to say, "too long, didn't read"?
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I am saying that I was making a joke... read it again. ;)
 
Re: Proof and Facts

TurtleDude said:
I have read them and find nothing
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You chose to find nothing. There are none so blind as he who will not see. For you to do otherwise would be to shake the very foundations of your belief system to the ground so you live in denial.
 
Re: Proof and Facts

ernst barkmann said:
you have as usual nothing but your own words.....that is all
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So tell me EB - as a big natural rights believer perhaps you can answer a question when others here are avoiding it like french kissing an ebola carrier.

If a belief in natural rights exists only in the belief system of the believer, can you explain how at the same time you can assert that these rights are "pre-existing" since a right which exists only as a belief cannot be exercised or used or enjoyed in reality in our world?
 
Re: Proof and Facts

haymarket said:
You chose to find nothing. There are none so blind as he who will not see. For you to do otherwise would be to shake the very foundations of your belief system to the ground so you live in denial.
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no one else has found it either Haymarket. NOT A SINGLE GUN BILL HAS EVER BEEN based on anything but the FDR fiction involving the commerce clause. You have continually failed to show us the specific language that you were able to find a delegation of power that FDR could not, his AG could not and your party leaders could not

you have refused to print the words and explain why those words actually create a right

listen-here is the deal

the bill of rights were supposed to be read expansively

grants of power narrowly. that is not subject to dispute

what you do is the exact opposite

you read the guarantee of our rights as narrowly as possible

and your read the grant of power to the federal government more than as broadly possible-you make up grants of power that cannot be found in even the most liberal reading of the document

and that is completely opposite of what this country was founded upon
 
Re: Proof and Facts

vasuderatorrent said:
Are you saying he is lying? Read this:



He is pretty much bragging about his incapacity. Are you suggesting that he is lying when he says, "tl dr" which translates to say, "too long, didn't read"?
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1) what caused you to butt in on an argument that has been going on long before you joined this forum

2) i have seen all of his stale arguments before and I was saying the same old nonsense is too long and I didn't read it. More experienced posters on this board understand that. claiming I have some inability to read, rather than no desire to read the same silly argument for the 200th time is really pretty pathetic
 
Re: Proof and Facts

TurtleDude said:
no one else has found it either Haymarket.
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You are one person Turtle. One person.

I am so sick of you getting the proof you ask for but pretending that just because your own stubborn belief system does not allow you to see otherwise you act like it was never submitted at all. I gave you five different clauses in the constitution- including one that the Supreme COurt agrees with me - AND ONE IS ALL WE NEED - but you still insist they are not there.

It is blatantly intellectually fraudulent to pull that denial stunt over and over and over again.

If you wallow under the falsehood that I am FDR - you badly need to be disabused of it. If you wallow under the falsehood that my line of argument is limited to something put before the Court 3/4 of a century ago - you need to flush that down the appropriate receptacle.
 
Re: Proof and Facts

TurtleDude said:
1) what caused you to butt in on an argument that has been going on long before you joined this forum

2) i have seen all of his stale arguments before and I was saying the same old nonsense is too long and I didn't read it. More experienced posters on this board understand that. claiming I have some inability to read, rather than no desire to read the same silly argument for the 200th time is really pretty pathetic
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I will join in any discussion I want to join. Are we clear on that?
 
Re: Proof and Facts

haymarket said:
You are one person Turtle. One person.

I am so sick of you getting the proof you ask for but pretending that just because your own stubborn belief system does not allow you to see otherwise you act like it was never submitted at all. I gave you five different clauses in the constitution- including one that the Supreme COurt agrees with me - AND ONE IS ALL WE NEED - but you still insist they are not there.

It is blatantly intellectually fraudulent to pull that denial stunt over and over and over again.

If you wallow under the falsehood that I am FDR - you badly need to be disabused of it. If you wallow under the falsehood that my line of argument is limited to something put before the Court 3/4 of a century ago - you need to flush that down the appropriate receptacle.
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yet no one claims my proof is deficient on these arguments. yours-quite often

no one else has tried to justify federal gun control on any part of sec 8 under than the CC

no one

what does that tell you Haymarket?
 
Re: Proof and Facts

TurtleDude said:
1) what caused you to butt in on an argument that has been going on long before you joined this forum

2) i have seen all of his stale arguments before and I was saying the same old nonsense is too long and I didn't read it. More experienced posters on this board understand that. claiming I have some inability to read, rather than no desire to read the same silly argument for the 200th time is really pretty pathetic
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Anytime I come across tl dr then I will intervene. It's a pet peeve of mine. It is something that nobody should ever say. It's childish and disrespectful. You shouldn't say it. Next time I read a comment when you say it I will say something similar. Nobody should ever say it. A person should always be called out for making a dumb comment like that.

The short version: It's a pet peeve of mine.
 
Re: Proof and Facts

vasuderatorrent said:
Anytime I come across tl dr then I will intervene. It's a pet peeve of mine. It is something that nobody should ever say. It's childish and disrespectful. You shouldn't say it. Next time I read a comment when you say it I will say something similar. Nobody should ever say it and should always be called out for making a dumb comment like that.

The short version: It's a pet peeve of mine.
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tl dr ts
 
Re: Proof and Facts

TurtleDude said:
yet no one claims my proof is deficient on these arguments. yours-quite often

no one else has tried to justify federal gun control on any part of sec 8 under than the CC

no one

what does that tell you Haymarket?
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It tells me several things:

1- people here defer to you on gun matters because they know of your single minded obsession with it and they do not want to subject themselves to the complete Turtle treatment that is reserved for people who oppose your views with anything more than a post or two.
2- your love for Argumentum ad Populum has not waned since the first fifty times you invoked it
3 - the opinion of a half dozen or so gun aficionados on carefully controlled gun threads on a right libertarian site means less than the utilitarian value of a five pound bag of garden manure

Of course you are well aware of this since I have stated all this many times before.
 
Re: Proof and Facts

vasuderatorrent said:
I knew you were too lazy to read. That's why I offered the short version. You are being disrespectful and childish when you say that dumb mess.
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tl dr ts
 
Re: Proof and Facts

haymarket said:
It tells me several things:

1- people here defer to you on gun matters because they know of your single minded obsession with it and they do not want to subject themselves to the complete Turtle treatment that is reserved for people who oppose your views with anything more than a post or two.
2- your love for Argumentum ad Populum has not waned since the first fifty times you invoked it
3 - the opinion of a half dozen or so gun aficionados on carefully controlled gun threads on a right libertarian site means less than the utilitarian value of a five pound bag of garden manure

Of course you are well aware of this since I have stated all this many times before.
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the old everyone else is wrong argument

doesn't work
 
Re: Proof and Facts

TurtleDude said:
the old everyone else is wrong argument

doesn't work
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It has nothing to do with everyone else. It has to do with a small number of people who employ intentional tactics to kill debate and control opinion on this issue.

And it has nothing to do with being right or wrong on any issue or claim of fact or even opinion.

I made a lengthy post on this a few months ago in the SUGGESTIONS section. It can be found here.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/feedb...-intentional-killing-debate-needs-change.html
 
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