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Is the American Dream dead?

Is the American Dream dead?

  • Yes, it's dead

    Votes: 7 21.2%

  • No, it's more possible than ever

    Votes: 5 15.2%

  • It's harder to achieve now than in the past

    Votes: 21 63.6%
  • Total voters
    33
DifferentDrummr

DifferentDrummr

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For the purpose of answering the poll question, please use the following definition:

"life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth. [James Truslow Adams, 1931]
 
Is the American Dream dead?
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no. but globalization, the slow progression to a post labor economy, decades of trickle down, and a nearly continuous state of war have taken a toll, though, and it has become a lot more difficult to attain.
 
The former American Dream died with the first WELFARE payment. Now it takes a special kind of person to seek out the old American Dream.
 
HogWash said:
The former American Dream died with the first WELFARE payment. Now it takes a special kind of person to seek out the old American Dream.
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HogWash.....
 
For the American Dream we need a republicanism president.
 
The American Dream isn't dead, but it's not feeling very well right now. Let it get some rest and plenty of fluids and it will be back on it's feet in no time.
 
Upward mobility has largely been a believable dream for many Americans over the past several decades. That being said, it wasn't particularly true for that length of time either.

However, the effect of being able to believe one could achieve better than your parent's generation produced a societal benefit.

Right now it's both harder to achieve upward mobility as it is less likely for the American to believe in the possibility. The lack of self-confidence only exacerbates the issue.
 
HogWash said:
The former American Dream died with the first WELFARE payment. Now it takes a special kind of person to seek out the old American Dream.
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Utter nonsense. It was after the New Deal era that the American dream hit overdrive and this nation became more wealthy than ever before.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
For the purpose of answering the poll question, please use the following definition:

"life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth. [James Truslow Adams, 1931]
Click to expand...

If you compare it to that quote, I think the American dream is much more viable today for many Americans then it was then. Minorities, in particular.

Life is better, richer and fuller for most people eighty years after this quote, with tremendous advances in technology, science, medicine, etc.

The people in this thread remind me of the Louis CK bit:

 
Van Basten said:
Utter nonsense. It was after the New Deal era that the American dream hit overdrive and this nation became more wealthy than ever before.
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Might be utter nonsense to you if you actually believe having 46 million people existing on the government teat is the American dream. And another 50 million without a job. This article mentions 91 million. But I'll go with the more conservative number of 50 mil.

Are there 91 million Americans ‘on the sidelines’ looking for work? - The Washington Post
 
HogWash said:
Might be utter nonsense to you if you actually believe having 46 million people existing on the government teat is the American dream. And another 50 million without a job. This article mentions 91 million. But I'll go with the more conservative number of 50 mil.

Are there 91 million Americans ‘on the sidelines’ looking for work? - The Washington Post
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First place, you should actually read the references you post lest you embarrass yourself as you have here. The article well explains the 91 million not in the work force, arguing that 80 million are simply out of the work force (retired, stay at home moms, students or disabled) and its not a bad thing.... It cites only 10 million without a job....

Most of the people on food stamps are working (working poor) and some are simply unable to work.

6 SNAP (Food Stamp) Myths | Greater Philadelphia Coalition Against Hunger

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3894

Please explain how welfare detracts from the American dream. Are you suggesting some prefer welfare to the American dream? Do you honestly suppose that tomorrow's entrepreneur, the would-be Mark Zuckerman, decides he would rather live in a rat-invested apartment in a crime ridden neighborhood eating less than nutritious food because that is a better life than casting his lot in starting the next Facebook? I think that is a rather absurd proposition that only remotely works if welfare is some type of desirable existence. If you think that, my guess is that you are ignorant about welfare.

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/02/poverty-in-america-myths-about-welfare-recipients/

You should try living on welfare, then you would realize that it ain't easy street.... and then, perhaps, you can move on from the chains of your bigoted world view.

http://www.minnpost.com/community-sketchbook/2012/11/food-stamp-challenge-try-living-3150-food-week
 
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DifferentDrummr said:
For the purpose of answering the poll question, please use the following definition:

"life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth. [James Truslow Adams, 1931]
Click to expand...

 
upsideguy said:
First place, you should actually read the references you post lest you embarrass yourself as you have here. The article well explains the 91 million not in the work force, arguing that 80 million are simply out of the work force (retired, stay at home moms, students or disabled) and its not a bad thing.... It cites only 10 million without a job....

Most of the people on food stamps are working (working poor) and some are simply unable to work.

6 SNAP (Food Stamp) Myths | Greater Philadelphia Coalition Against Hunger

The Relationship Between SNAP and Work Among Low-Income Households — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Please explain how welfare detracts from the American dream. Are you suggesting some prefer welfare to the American dream? Do you honestly suppose that tomorrow's entrepreneur, the would-be Mark Zuckerman, decides he would rather live in a rat-invested apartment in a crime ridden neighborhood eating less than nutritious food because that is a better life than casting his lot in starting the next Facebook? I think that is a rather absurd proposition that only remotely works if welfare is some type of desirable existence. If you think that, my guess is that you are ignorant about welfare.

Poverty In America: Myths About Welfare Recipients « CBS Charlotte

You should try living on welfare, then you would realize that it ain't easy street.... and then, perhaps, you can move on from the chains of your bigoted world view.

Food Stamp Challenge: Try living on $31.50 for food for a week | MinnPost
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First of all I have two choices of who I will quote, and I guarandamntee you it won't be Obama or any of his minions. This country's economy is down the sewer whether you want to believe it or not. And the number of welfare leeches is growing every day. Like it or lump it.
 
HogWash said:
First of all I have two choices of who I will quote, and I guarandamntee you it won't be Obama or any of his minions. This country's economy is down the sewer whether you want to believe it or not. And the number of welfare leeches is growing every day. Like it or lump it.
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We were not discussing the general state of the economy nor was anyone discussing (nor quoting) Obama.

1. We were first discussing the American dream, but you made the statement that the American dream ended with Welfare. I have taken you to task on that, first asking you how welfare impedes the American dream... and you could not answer.
2. You suggested the 50 million people were out of work, for which you did the right thing by posting what you thought was support for that statement. I took you to task because what you offered as support did not support your statement.
3. I then suggested you have impressions of welfare that simply are not true, for which you offer no defense.

Like it or lump it, but my well supported argument trumps your unsupported impressions in any debate. Try again.
 
upsideguy said:
We were not discussing the general state of the economy nor was anyone discussing (nor quoting) Obama.

1. We were first discussing the American dream, but you made the statement that the American dream ended with Welfare.
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It began to end with FDR's Welfare programs. It has taken this long to completely destroy what was left of the American Dream. If you don't think so, you can't find your ass with either hand. And it continues to go into the dumpster.
 
I think would be easier for my generation if we weren't loaded down with debt by the time were 21.
 
Threegoofs said:
Debt is a choice, you know.
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I would have gotten a PHD, but didn't want to go into more debt. The US needs more doctors, scientists, and PHDs. If I go back to university, I will go to a different country and keep my skills there. If you want your kids going into to debt and paying of the national debt you ran up, then you deserve a healthcare system that ****s you up.
 
SheWolf said:
I would have gotten a PHD, but didn't want to go into more debt. The US needs more doctors, scientists, and PHDs. If I go back to university, I will go to a different country and keep my skills there. If you want your kids going into to debt and paying of the national debt you ran up, then you deserve a healthcare system that ****s you up.
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You wouldn't have gotten one at 21.

And what area are you looking for a PhD? Generally, in the fields in demand (STEM), PhDs are covered.
 
HogWash said:
It began to end with FDR's Welfare programs. It has taken this long to completely destroy what was left of the American Dream. If you don't think so, you can't find your ass with either hand. And it continues to go into the dumpster.
Click to expand...

...another debating lightweight that refuses to look at the facts or substantiate his case. You have offered us nothing but your impressions, and when challenged to explain how welfare has hurt the American dream you are woefully unable to do so. Instead you such recite the same unsubstantiated drivel. This is Debate Politics, not shout your impressions.

I suggest you do a little research on welfare (and maybe a little debate theory). Give your position on this some thought and introspection and find some way to back up your position... perhaps an academic study that supports your conclusion. Until then, you are out of your league in this discussion....



...at least Mr. Hart knew his limitations...
 
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Van Basten said:
Utter nonsense. It was after the New Deal era that the American dream hit overdrive and this nation became more wealthy than ever before.
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LOL, it was surplus war production capability that produced the economy after WWII, not a welfare state that created wealth. Sorry but your welfare state dreams don't cause anything to go into overdream except maybe poverty.
 
People who answered yes, it clearly is dead for them. People who answered no, it's not dead for them.
 
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Helix said:
no. but globalization, the slow progression to a post labor economy, decades of trickle down, and a nearly continuous state of war have taken a toll, though, and it has become a lot more difficult to attain.
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Yep! Bill Gates had tough. No dream there.
 
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