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Do governments restrict freedom or provide it?

Do Governments Restrict Freedom or Provide It?

  • I lean left and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I am not American and govt restricts freedom.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I am not American and govt does NOT restrict freedom.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    28
Both

The government both restricts freedom but it also enables freedom for many. What I mean by that is if we had no governing powers I suspect that few people would have the freedoms or the ability to express said freedom. Instead government would simply be replaced by the few who had the power to subjugate those with lesser abilities and conforming those people to their will. I suspect such a system would probably be very suppressive.
 
Greetings pg. I'm really disappointed in the direction of the country. At this point, there appears to be a real dichotomy within our nation, and I'm not sure how much longer that can last...

For some reason, our rule of law has been put aside in favor of something else. We have been successful as a nation because we are a nation of laws that are supposed to apply to everyone equally. That has become perverted because of an "elite" class that feel they can exempt themselves from laws they pass. I suppose that others now feel that they can do the same thing, which is causing problems. This cannot continue for long, IMO. If we could go back to the days of "Do all you have agreed to do if humanly possible," this would eliminate lying, deceit, and treachery; and "do not encroach on other persons or their property," which would eliminate all the other problems we face. Too simple? Probably. :thumbdown:
 
We always like to say that we would have less freedom sans government.


This is not an accurate statement. We are a pack animal. When a group of us are together, we naturally form a system of leadership...a government. What I mean to say is, you get a group of humans together that is large enough, and no matter what you do, they will form some type of government, some type of hierarchy.
 
We always like to say that we would have less freedom sans government.


This is not an accurate statement. We are a pack animal. When a group of us are together, we naturally form a system of leadership...a government. What I mean to say is, you get a group of humans together that is large enough, and no matter what you do, they will form some type of government, some type of hierarchy.

Of course they will, from the smallest groups who form a gang, or band, up to tribes, and then peoples/cultures/nations.
Theres a reason the first animals domesticated by man were dogs-because we are both pack animals and understand each other.
 
Of course they will, from the smallest groups who form a gang, or band, up to tribes, and then peoples/cultures/nations.
Theres a reason the first animals domesticated by man were dogs-because we are both pack animals and understand each other.

Well, that and dogs are smarter than cats. Cats failed to see the benefit, so, didn't hang around long enough to get properly domesticated. And now look. The big cats are mostly all endangered, and house cats are the province of lonely women.


On a serious note, though, I think that understanding that NO government is pretty much impossible helps to bring more clarity to this question. Making NO government impossible, this question is either EXTREMELY depressing, are modestly uplifting.
 
We always like to say that we would have less freedom sans government.


This is not an accurate statement. We are a pack animal. When a group of us are together, we naturally form a system of leadership...a government. What I mean to say is, you get a group of humans together that is large enough, and no matter what you do, they will form some type of government, some type of hierarchy.

Government is not formed from people voluntary coming together, but by the strong conquering the weak and making them their slave. This has nothing to do with peoples natural tendency to form into groups, but with dickheads wanting to command and conquer their fellow human beings.
 
They can do both. Was the government creating the interstate road system a "restriction of freedom"? No. It expanded freedom, the freedom to travel.
Was the espionage act in WW1 a restriction of freedom? Absolutely.

The Interstate Highway System was not built to take a Sunday drive on, it's officially known as the National Defense Highway System designed and built for the military and to move war time commerce, supplies, tracked vehicles (like tanks) , troops etc. across the nation during war.

National Defense Highway System
 
They can do both. Was the government creating the interstate road system a "restriction of freedom"? No. It expanded freedom, the freedom to travel.
Was the espionage act in WW1 a restriction of freedom? Absolutely.

Really? So what do you think the government did to build the interstate road system? How many people lost their property due to eminent domain so that those roads could be built? Are you saying ignoring peoples property claims is somehow the government giving the people freedom?
 
Government is not formed from people voluntary coming together, but by the strong conquering the weak and making them their slave. This has nothing to do with peoples natural tendency to form into groups, but with dickheads wanting to command and conquer their fellow human beings.

Uh.....in a word, no.

Government

the group of people who control and make decisions for a larger group, country, state, etc.

: a particular system used for controlling a country, state, etc.

: the process or manner of controlling a country, state, etc.





All government is is a guy leading while others follow. Period.
 
The Interstate Highway System was not built to take a Sunday drive on, it's officially known as the National Defense Highway System designed and built for the military and to move war time commerce, supplies, tracked vehicles (like tanks) , troops etc. across the nation during war.

National Defense Highway System

Construction of it was authorized by the: Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you wanna get held up on semantics, good for you, but none the less me point holds true.
 
Really? So what do you think the government did to build the interstate road system? How many people lost their property due to eminent domain so that those roads could be built? Are you saying ignoring peoples property claims is somehow the government giving the people freedom?

Absolutely. Some people lost out to gain that highway system.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/50interstate.cfm
 
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Really? So what do you think the government did to build the interstate road system? How many people lost their property due to eminent domain so that those roads could be built? Are you saying ignoring peoples property claims is somehow the government giving the people freedom?

Never heard of common law?
 
Construction of it was authorized by the: Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you wanna get held up on semantics, good for you, but none the less me point holds true.

Under the Constitution the only roads that the federal government can build are postal roads and roads for national defense.

Navigable waterways fall under the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

The federal government isn't authorized to build bridges to no where.
 
Uh.....in a word, no.

Government

the group of people who control and make decisions for a larger group, country, state, etc.

: a particular system used for controlling a country, state, etc.

: the process or manner of controlling a country, state, etc.





All government is is a guy leading while others follow. Period.

So I tell you what government really is about and how they come into being and you provide me some completely uneducated definition. Nice. History and frankly pretty recent history shows us how government is formed and it is not formed by voluntary consent or peoples nature of coming together, but with violence and a desire to command other peoples lives. You're absolutely right that people form into groups, but it's more complex that. What happens after people join into groups is fighting and violence, not a coming together of people to form a government.
 
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Under the Constitution the only roads that the federal government can build are postal roads and roads for national defense.
Nope. For public use, and if land was taken away from private property they must be justly compensated.
 
Never heard of common law?

Is that something that is supposed to matter to my argument? Did they use eminent domain to take land or not? Did people lose their property to build the interstate road system? Yes or No?
 
It does both. In some areas it restricts freedom. However, when I strap on a pack and hit the trail in a federal wilderness the government is granting me the ultimate freedom.
 
It does both. In some areas it restricts freedom. However, when I strap on a pack and hit the trail in a federal wilderness the government is granting me the ultimate freedom.

So how did they acquire all that land called public parks?
 
Nope. For public use, and if land was taken away from private property they must be justly compensated.

So does the government allow people to refuse to give up their land or do they just force them to give it up and then throw money at them? Taking my land to give yourself a road is pretty ****ed up.
 
So how did they acquire all that land called public parks?

A variety of ways. Sometimes it was land that was left over after settlement. Sometimes it was land that was given to the public sector on the condition it be maintained as a park. Sometimes it was purchased.

The point in my previous post is that its a gray area. You can't just make a blanket statement that the government restricts freedom or the government provides freedom. Its like asking a parent do you provide your children with discipline or do you provide them with love. The government does both. The world is not all black and white, cut and dry, get used to it.
 
Vattel's "The Law of Nations" aka "Natural Law" over rides English Common Law. Well that's what the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Jay said.

Ever hear of Berman v. Parker? How about Kelo v. New Orleans? Berman v. Parker?
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But hey, if you disagree with the establishment of the interstate highway system, feel free not to drive on em...
 
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