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Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 6 9.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 61 91.0%

  • Total voters
    67
Greetings, Jerry. :2wave:

Sometimes the truth can be brutal, as in "do you think I look fat in this dress," so that's why sometimes silence is better. You can always hedge by changing the subject, though, as in "I liked the one you wore the other day better." We all hedge.... :mrgreen:
I know people like to hate on lying, but we can't live without it.

If I ask "what is your bank account number and pin", any answer other than that information is a lie. Even not answering is a lie of omission.

Privacy is dishonesty because you're concealing. Carrying a concealed gun or knife or pepper-sprey is dishonesty because you're keeping the knowledge of that item's presence from people.

This forum's rules require you to be dishonest by prohibiting you from publishing personal information or your account name & password.

Everyone is willing to accept some level of dishonesty.
 
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Since Libertarianism is based on truth and logic there is no need for me to lie, I will just leave all the lying to my detractors. :mrgreen:

Have you ever known anyone to claim their position is based on lies and hysteria?
 
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So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.

The question is would I lie to serve my agenda. No, I would not lie for that. I would lie to spare someone's feelings, lie to save someone's life, etc. etc., but not for my agenda.
 
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I know people like to hate on lying, but we can't live without it.

If I ask "what is your bank account number and pin", any answer other than that information is a lie. Even not answering is a lie of omission.

Privacy is dishonesty because you're concealing. Carrying a concealed gun or knife or pepper-sprey is dishonesty because you're keeping the knowledge of that item's presence from people.

This forum's rules require you to be dishonest by prohibiting you from publishing personal information or your account name & password.

Everyone is willing to accept some level of dishonesty.

If no one has asked about the concealed information or items, however, I can't see that it is a lie to conceal them. Nor is it a lie if you ask me my real name and I tell you that I prefer not to publish it on line in a forum like this, which is the truth. If you ask me if I have revealed all information about myself or what is on my person and I say yes, then that is a lie.
 
If no one has asked about the concealed information or items, however, I can't see that it is a lie to conceal them.
It's deception. When you conceal an item you are trying to create an impression that causes others to be misled, by not telling all the facts, or creating a false impression. When a person carried a concealed gun, they are creating the impression that they are unarmed; many supporters of CC will say things like "keep the bad guys guessing". To CC is to lie. If you partially conceal your hand as you type your ATM pin, you are lying because you are concealing the truth (what your pin # is). A non-disclosure agreement is a contract to lie. To keep something, anything, private, is to lie because you are concealing the truth.

Nor is it a lie if you ask me my real name and I tell you that I prefer not to publish it on line in a forum like this, which is the truth.
That you don't want to publish your name is true, but not publishing your name, regardles of why, is a lie of omission.

If you ask me if I have revealed all information about myself or what is on my person and I say yes, then that is a lie.
Right, that's an overt lie.
 
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It's deception. When you conceal an item you are trying to create an impression that causes others to be misled, by not telling all the facts, or creating a false impression. When a person carried a concealed gun, they are creating the impression that they are unarmed; many supporters of CC will say things like "keep the bad guys guessing". To CC is to lie. If you partially conceal your hand as you type your ATM pin, you are lying because you are concealing the truth (what your pin # is). A non-disclosure agreement is a contract to lie. To keep something, anything, private, is to lie because you are concealing the truth.


That you don't want to publish your name is true, but not publishing your name, regardles of why, is a lie of omission.


Right, that's an overt lie.

But Jerry, I'm sorry but not disclosing everything about yourself, your underwear, the mole on your right butt cheek, etc. etc. etc. is not lying. It is simply choosing not to disclose or not even thinking about it. Technically my concealed carry weapon is no different than the car keys and wallet in my pocket that I don't announce to everybody around me either. If we have to reveal everything about us to everybody we meet all day in order to not be lying, we would spend all our time doing just that.

But the thread topic is not lying about ourselves but rather would we lie to accomplish what we want to happen or want to get done. Perhaps most of us have not disclosed every negative about ourselves or our work history to a prospective employer even though we know the employer would be interested and that isn't a lie either unless the employer asks us specifically and we don't tell the truth. But if I claim experience I don't have or deny a truth when asked, then that is a lie.

When politicians intentionally omit or misrepresent the downside of a piece of legislation to get others to vote for it, or if they deliberately exaggerate or misrepresent the sins of their opponents in order to further their political ambitions, etc., then that is a lie. And people do that on message boards every single day to further their agenda of politics of personal destruction for whatever personal satisfaction that may give them.
 
Like most things, it depends on context. Also, what you mean by 'agenda'. Like, would I lie to help get a politician elected? Probably not, but it depends on who is running for office, and what office they are running for. Would I lie to save a loved one from hardship or discomfort? Without a second thought. Would I lie to save my own ass? No, probably not. Etc etc.

It also what is meant by lie.

The word lie has taken on new meanings since it has been used to describe Bush and the Iraq war.
 
It also what is meant by lie.

The word lie has taken on new meanings since it has been used to describe Bush and the Iraq war.

The long-term results of "The Big Lie!" Lies don't work. They gum up the works.
 
So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.

I don't think it's so much lying, as I doubt people (or perhaps I'd like to think) outright lie. However, what people will do, will only present the facts that support their side of the argument. And if you are here just wanting to debate, than that's fine and part of what makes a good debater is to highlight the strengths of your argument and hide the weaknesses. However, it doesn't help at getting at the truth... or at least as close as one can get in politics. I saw someone below this mention Climate Change, one side can post what the conventional wisdom of scientist are today, however they will downplay or try and dismiss the notion that scientist don't have that great of a track record on this issue.
 
But Jerry, I'm sorry but not disclosing everything about yourself, your underwear, the mole on your right butt cheek, etc. etc. etc. is not lying.

It is simply choosing not to disclose or not even thinking about it. Technically my concealed carry weapon is no different than the car keys and wallet in my pocket that I don't announce to everybody around me either. If we have to reveal everything about us to everybody we meet all day in order to not be lying, we would spend all our time doing just that.

But the thread topic is not lying about ourselves but rather would we lie to accomplish what we want to happen or want to get done. Perhaps most of us have not disclosed every negative about ourselves or our work history to a prospective employer even though we know the employer would be interested and that isn't a lie either unless the employer asks us specifically and we don't tell the truth. But if I claim experience I don't have or deny a truth when asked, then that is a lie.

When politicians intentionally omit or misrepresent the downside of a piece of legislation to get others to vote for it, or if they deliberately exaggerate or misrepresent the sins of their opponents in order to further their political ambitions, etc., then that is a lie. And people do that on message boards every single day to further their agenda of politics of personal destruction for whatever personal satisfaction that may give them.
Any form of covering up the truth is a lie.
 
The long-term results of "The Big Lie!" Lies don't work. They gum up the works.

:roll:

And then there are people with short memories, listen to too many blogs, and don't know the meaning of what a lie is...

Bush didn't lie, no more than the leading intelligence agencies of the world, including those who opposed the war (China, France, Russia) that said they had WMDs. I don't recall his name, but the guy who was feeding that false intelligence lied to be sure. If Bush is guilty of anything, it's a lack of patience with the weapon inspectors. Then again, look at it from their shoes. We're talking about a dictator who has lied about their WMD program in the past, you'd be foolish to believe the guy suddenly destroyed all element of his WMD program on his own.
 
Are posters here that say Obama has had a positive effect on the country lieing or just blind?

I would say a post like that is a lie to push an agenda.

How about the people that campaigned for Obama in 2008 that lied about his background, or swept it under the rug?

There are a lot of people that lie to further their agenda, but nobody here wants to admit it.
 
I would, but with certain restrictions. I would not lie in a self-serving manner. But as other posters have noted, sometimes lying is obviously the lesser of two evils. For example, part of my agenda is making sure my daughter lives into adulthood. If someone, who I knew meant to kill her, asked me about where to find her, I would lie. Similarly, I would lie to prevent any murder, rape, or other such serious wrong.
 
Are posters here that say Obama has had a positive effect on the country lieing or just blind?

I would say a post like that is a lie to push an agenda.

How about the people that campaigned for Obama in 2008 that lied about his background, or swept it under the rug?

There are a lot of people that lie to further their agenda, but nobody here wants to admit it.

What lies about his background?
 
What lies about his background?

Really, you want me to go over the 2008 election again?

Let's start with Ayers and Rev Wright. I am sure you know more.
 
I would, but with certain restrictions. I would not lie in a self-serving manner. But as other posters have noted, sometimes lying is obviously the lesser of two evils. For example, part of my agenda is making sure my daughter lives into adulthood. If someone, who I knew meant to kill her, asked me about where to find her, I would lie. Similarly, I would lie to prevent any murder, rape, or other such serious wrong.

I took the OP's use of "agenda" to be a cause that was political or religious in nature.
 
Any form of covering up the truth is a lie.

But, non disclosure of something irrelevant to the issue at hand is not covering up the truth.
 
I would, but with certain restrictions. I would not lie in a self-serving manner. But as other posters have noted, sometimes lying is obviously the lesser of two evils. For example, part of my agenda is making sure my daughter lives into adulthood. If someone, who I knew meant to kill her, asked me about where to find her, I would lie. Similarly, I would lie to prevent any murder, rape, or other such serious wrong.

Yes, I think we all would lie to protect somebody from evil intentions. And I think we might all lie a bit out of kindness to such questions as "Does this outfit make me look fat?" or to decline an invitation that we really really don't want to accept but don't want to hurt the person's feelings either and such as that.

I think most of us did take the OP to mean would we lie to further a self-serving agenda or to further our own ambitions. But as you have well illustrated, the question can also include a lot of shades of gray as well. :)
 
:roll:

And then there are people with short memories, listen to too many blogs, and don't know the meaning of what a lie is...

Bush didn't lie, no more than the leading intelligence agencies of the world, including those who opposed the war (China, France, Russia) that said they had WMDs. I don't recall his name, but the guy who was feeding that false intelligence lied to be sure. If Bush is guilty of anything, it's a lack of patience with the weapon inspectors. Then again, look at it from their shoes. We're talking about a dictator who has lied about their WMD program in the past, you'd be foolish to believe the guy suddenly destroyed all element of his WMD program on his own.

I always thought the UNSCOM report by Ritter et. al. that Iraq had no WMD and that the inspectors had unfettered access in all of Iraq as a definitive statement by the professionals that Saddam had no WMD. That was the UN's own investigators and nothing had more credibility. Bush stated that the investigators were denied access. Just another lie. UNSCOM inspectors were there because nobody believed Saddam so they physically checked the Country. No WMDs! Unfettered access!
 
inspectors had unfettered access in all of Iraq

False. The final (and every other) report from the inspectors clearly states otherwise. Further, Saddam claimed he perpetuated the belief that he had a WMD program, by running inspectors around and denying access, because he feared Iran more than the UN.

Learn history. Or... give us more of that Unabomber Manifesto crap.
 
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False. The final report from the inspectors clearly states otherwise. Further, Saddam claimed that he perpetuated the belief that he had a WMD program, by running inspectors around and denying access, because he feared Iran more than the UN.

Learn history.

One thing to note is that Vice President dick in the asshole profited quite a bit from that war.
 
So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.

I have opinions but the only agenda that I have is to care for myself and my family. Generally I would say that my family is best served if I remain honest.
 
Would I lie to push my political agenda? NO! This is one of the many reasons Im not a leftist. Its called integrity and honor, and I have both.
 
Would I lie to push my political agenda? NO! This is one of the many reasons Im not a leftist. Its called integrity and honor, and I have both.

Indeed. I may not talk about certain aspects, but I'm not going to lie.
 
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