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Do firearms empower people?

Do firearms empower people?

  • Total voters
    52
Unrepresented said:
Economic ideologies don't kill people, genocidal dictators do. People weren't dying of redistribution of wealth they were dying because of dictators.
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communism requires force to be implemented. its a poisonous ideology that should be eradicated from the face of this earth
 
TurtleDude said:
communism requires force to be implemented. its a poisonous ideology that should be eradicated from the face of this earth
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Every system of government requires force to be implemented, maintained, and adjusted. What's your point?
 
Unrepresented said:
Every system of government requires force to be implemented, maintained, and adjusted. What's your point?
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our form of government hasn't killed near as many people
 
TurtleDude said:
our form of government hasn't killed near as many people
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Actual communism has killed very few people. Dictatorship MASQUERADING as communism has killed more than just about any form of government.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Actual communism has killed very few people. Dictatorship MASQUERADING as communism has killed more than just about any form of government.
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many communist defenders always claim that Stalin, Mao etc were not real communists. but it seems every time a "communist" leader springs up, so do lots of graves. WE have to hold the philosophy responsible for how it is applied. as I noted. The Spanish Inquisition had no real relationship with true Christianity but I hold the Papacy responsible for the horrors of that institution
 
Unrepresented said:
Our second Amendment has killed more Americans than Marxism has.
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that is a stupid comment because for that to be true, you'd have to prove without the 2A there would be no murders. and we have seen countries like Mexico and Columbia have far more murders per capita and they don't have a second amendment
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Actual communism has killed very few people. Dictatorship MASQUERADING as communism has killed more than just about any form of government.
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That's only because what communist dream of isn't possible.
 
Unrepresented said:
Our second Amendment has killed more Americans than Marxism has.
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I think your post gave me cancer, but I'm absolutely sure it gave me a headache.
 
TurtleDude said:
many communist defenders always claim that Stalin, Mao etc were not real communists. but it seems every time a "communist" leader springs up, so do lots of graves. WE have to hold the philosophy responsible for how it is applied. as I noted. The Spanish Inquisition had no real relationship with true Christianity but I hold the Papacy responsible for the horrors of that institution
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I don't really care what people call themselves. Actions speak far louder than words. Stalin was no communist. He was as dictator, one of the worst of all time. Mao wasn't much better. Doesn't matter if they forced "communist" policies. Communism isn't about force. Dictatorships are.
 
Henrin said:
That's only because what communist dream of isn't possible.
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Absolutely correct. Real communism on a national scale isn't possible. Communists who believe it can are living in a dream world. People will always want more... and people wanting more helps things progress.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Actual communism has killed very few people. Dictatorship MASQUERADING as communism has killed more than just about any form of government.
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Yes, I've seen that sort of communism apologism before. "Every time communism has failed, it wasn't true communism." I suppose it's never been the case that the ideology itself is unrealistic since it goes against human nature and that's why it fails. Naw, if we did communism here, I'm sure we'd do it right.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I don't really care what people call themselves. Actions speak far louder than words. Stalin was no communist. He was as dictator, one of the worst of all time. Mao wasn't much better. Doesn't matter if they forced "communist" policies. Communism isn't about force. Dictatorships are.
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Stalin was the consequence of Lenin's philosophy that was heavily influenced by Marxism.
 
Henrin said:
Yes.



Yes.



Yes.


That is not to say I wouldn't be armed though.
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So, Henrin, what exactly are you saying? That you have more courage than the average person? Or the average woman?
 
Unrepresented said:
Our second Amendment has killed more Americans than Marxism has.
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When documents and concepts start brandishing weapons and killing people? I always thought it was primarily people who killed people.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Absolutely correct. Real communism on a national scale isn't possible. Communists who believe it can are living in a dream world. People will always want more... and people wanting more helps things progress.
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I actually agree with you. You have to have the stubborn asshole that feels the current state of affairs is unacceptable to really move forward as a society.
 
X Factor said:
Yes, I've seen that sort of communism apologism before. "Every time communism has failed, it wasn't true communism." I suppose it's never been the case that the ideology itself is unrealistic since it goes against human nature and that's why it fails. Naw, if we did communism here, I'm sure we'd do it right.
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Communism has NEVER succeeded. It can't. There is no "communist apologism" in my post. My post speaks to the reality of the ideology. It's a failed ideology that cannot survive on a large scale. It ALWAYS turns into a dictatorship for two reason: 1) Human psychology causes us to want to move ahead and progress. Communism focuses more on equal and group progress which is unattainable because we are not all on the same level, and 2) Once you have someone or someones in power, communism ceases... again because of human psychology, this time greed. Once that happens, power corrupts, and the "good of the collective" becomes less important than the good of oneself.
 
lizzie said:
When documents and concepts start brandishing weapons and killing people? I always thought it was primarily people who killed people.
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The 1st Amendment jumped me the other day and stole my watch.
 
Henrin said:
Stalin was the consequence of Lenin's philosophy that was heavily influenced by Marxism.
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Economically, true. However, Stalin went far further than Lenin did and basically abandoned communism from a political standpoint into authoritarianism.
 
Henrin said:
I actually agree with you. You have to have the stubborn asshole that feels the current state of affairs is unacceptable to really move forward as a society.
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Yup. Stubborn people are the BEST. Without them, things remain the status quo.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Communism has NEVER succeeded. It can't. There is no "communist apologism" in my post.
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My mistake then. It's a common refrain that I hear from people who support communism.

My post speaks to the reality of the ideology. It's a failed ideology that cannot survive on a large scale. It ALWAYS turns into a dictatorship for two reason: 1) Human psychology causes us to want to move ahead and progress. Communism focuses more on equal and group progress which is unattainable because we are not all on the same level, and 2) Once you have someone or someones in power, communism ceases... again because of human psychology, this time greed. Once that happens, power corrupts, and the "good of the collective" becomes less important than the good of oneself.
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Agreed and I'd add that, once you're the one in power, the needs of the masses seem to matter less and less compared to what you can get for yourself and, not to sound like Gordon Gekko, but that kind of greed is not always bad. Shoot, there has to be a little of that in everyone or there'd be no incentive or motive to do anything differently or, maybe, better.
 
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US Conservative said:
As guns are inanimate no they dont kill people.
Marxism, as judged by its implementation across the globe over the last century shows that indeed it does kill people-with guns or without.
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By what rational are you allowed to judge marxism by its implementation, but when anti-gun folk judge guns by their implementation we get the argument that they are inanimate tools? You simply cannot judge one by its implementation and the other as an inanimate object, no matter how 'incomparable' they are. Either:

a) Guns kill people and marxism kills people.

or

b) Guns don't kill people, people who use abuse them do and marxism doesn't kill people, people who abuse it do.

At least be consistent. (Your lawnmower/atheism comparisons are a complete straw man because you seem to be uncomfortable with admitting this)

TurtleDude said:
that is a stupid comment because for that to be true, you'd have to prove without the 2A there would be no murders. and we have seen countries like Mexico and Columbia have far more murders per capita and they don't have a second amendment
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Not that I agree with his statement, but if he needs to prove his point by saying that without the 2A there would be no murders, then surely in order to prove your accusation that communism/marxism caused all these murders then you'd have to prove that without communism there would be no murders. That's clearly not the case. Using your own logic here.
 
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lizzie said:
When documents and concepts start brandishing weapons and killing people? I always thought it was primarily people who killed people.
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Ask US Conservative. He's the one who believes marxism kills people.
 
TurtleDude said:
that is a stupid comment because for that to be true, you'd have to prove without the 2A there would be no murders. and we have seen countries like Mexico and Columbia have far more murders per capita and they don't have a second amendment
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lizzie said:
When documents and concepts start brandishing weapons and killing people? I always thought it was primarily people who killed people.
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This critical thinking is sadly absent from your claim that Marxism killed 100 million people.

Still waiting on your data.
 
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