How Do We End The War on Terror?

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

"Of course we can lose a war we do not fight. One of our problems is that we fail to recognize the nature of the wars we find ourselves in. We do a poor job of determining what it takes to win. We have long failed to train strategists who can creatively apply national power including diplomacy, propaganda and military force to win."

Montecresto said:

Well thanks, I'll return the favor sometime.

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You are welcome. I hope you will.

Its ridiculousness to suggest you could lose, or win for that matter, a war which you don't engage in.

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Wars have many components. Some have very large components designed to influence the enemy populace. Islamism uses influence in a variety of ways. One is to frighten and intimidate its enemy. Beheadings and rapid successful attacks are useful tools for this. Another is to place agents of influence within the enemy's population. Today we have between 2.5 and 3 million Muslims living in the US. European countries have a larger percentages than we do. In addition they place front groups among us to use our laws against us. We have enemy lobbyist groups who influence our laws and our policy. We have Islamists who are part of the Islamofascist supporter's staff. They constantly, steadily work against us.

They use the divides between us to drive additional wedges between us. We have some, like you and people who believe as you do, that find fault with us and not with our enemies. People like you are very useful to our enemies. You wittingly or unwittingly prepare us for our defeat. No matter how many times people like you are on the wrong side of history there will always be people like you to fulfil your role.

In my opinion the goal of this long period leading up to the use of force is designed to convince us that the war cannot be won, that it is futile to try, and to prevent us from seizing the initiative. It is to prevent people like you, and those who believe as you do, from realizing that we are even in a war. As you can tell from the comments on this board our enemies are succeeding.

It's also uneducated to call Obama the things you do.

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Has the Islamofascist supporter on the golf course done anything that would lead you to believe he is not supporting the Islamists? Has he asked the Congress for a declaration of war? Has he used our military might to obliterate the combatants we see? Has he used diplomacy to convince the sources of Islamist power that they had better stop? If not, why not?

And of course the war isn't over, if it's that nebulous "war on terror" Bush started to which you refer. It has no end. And US policies have guaranteed that. It's job security for the defense contractors and our military, and CIA as well. I'm still surprised at the numbers of Americans scared of Muslims. All the government has to do is claim that their coming to get us, and people start quivering.

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This proves my earlier point. We no longer have strategists. The war on terror is misnamed. It should be a war on Islam. Islam is the problem so Islam must be eradicated as a political-religion. It is a war of Western civilization against 7th century barbarism. Today it is a war we are losing.

Libertie76 said:

If this is the case why arent these groups targeting places like switzerland and sweden? Its not the ideals of islam to wage war on everyone, but when multiple countries are constintaly bombing their countries and towns there going to be upset and want to fight back. The foreign policy of the united states is what started this whole mess to begin with. It's very obtvious, we arm regimes to take out countries, we pay for the overthrowing of leaders and nations. We wanted to go to war a year ago to take out assad, and now assad seems to be one of the few people that is actually fighting ISIS, so we arm rebels that are fighting ASSAD with millions of dollars in weapons! The united states and its major allies are the reason this group is conducting the business it is conducting. We need to leave them alone, we need to allow the good people of these countries to fight for themselves or itll be more and more money millions and millions of dollars more and more death. And the fact that conservatives actually believe we should spend time in there is just beyond ludacris to me, considering we can not even afford to pay for our veterans. Atleast a majority of people agree with me

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Your argument fails in that Islamist target isn't just Western Nations

Islamist have also carried out attacks on strategic adversaries like Russia and China. France consistently argued against military action, but that hasn't stopped the violence that is occurring there. Indonesia had nothing to do with the Coalition of the Willing, didn't start the bombings there.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Misterveritis said:

This proves my earlier point. We no longer have strategists. The war on terror is misnamed. It should be a war on Islam. Islam is the problem so Islam must be eradicated as a political-religion. It is a war of Western civilization against 7th century barbarism. Today it is a war we are losing.

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Do you have any idea the amount of resources it take take to carry out that idea? As big as a problem that Islam is, they aren't big enough to warranted the trillions that would have to be spent to turn the ME into a secular society. Until a WMD is used on an American target (or even a western European city), the strategy will continue to be containment.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

"This proves my earlier point. We no longer have strategists. The war on terror is misnamed. It should be a war on Islam. Islam is the problem so Islam must be eradicated as a political-religion. It is a war of Western civilization against 7th century barbarism. Today it is a war we are losing."

Hamster Buddha said:

Do you have any idea the amount of resources it take take to carry out that idea? As big as a problem that Islam is, they aren't big enough to warranted the trillions that would have to be spent to turn the ME into a secular society. Until a WMD is used on an American target (or even a western European city), the strategy will continue to be containment.

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How many resources did it take to defeat the scourge of soviet communism? Granted we did not complete the job. We left the communists in our country in the universities and in the environmental movement.

It does require the desire to win and the effort to develop a long term strategy. If the cost is in trillions it will be over several generations. It could be borne by the simple, and necessary steps of reducing the size and scope of our present welfare state.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Misterveritis said:

"This proves my earlier point. We no longer have strategists. The war on terror is misnamed. It should be a war on Islam. Islam is the problem so Islam must be eradicated as a political-religion. It is a war of Western civilization against 7th century barbarism. Today it is a war we are losing."

How many resources did it take to defeat the scourge of soviet communism? Granted we did not complete the job. We left the communists in our country in the universities and in the environmental movement.

It does require the desire to win and the effort to develop a long term strategy. If the cost is in trillions it will be over several generations. It could be borne by the simple, and necessary steps of reducing the size and scope of our present welfare state.

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Unfortunately, there's something missing in the middle east that was present in Eastern Europe, and that is the desire for a free and secular society. We've seen what happens with Muslims in the ME when they get the chance to have elections (Egypt, Iraq, Palestine, etc.) What we had going for us was that there wasn't only the external forces the US was exerting, but also the Internal ones from those countries themselves. And as far as China is concerned, thy simply saw the light and realized which was the superior economic system. I doubt Muslims are going to be seeing the light in on Islam any time in 50 years or even a hundred.

matchlight said:

I'm not uneducated, and I see him pretty much the same way--a person who resents most things about this country and inwardly sympathizes with Islamists who share that resentment. Hard to do well in a war when you have a President who doesn't much like your country.

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You must feel the same way then about more than 50% of American voters that elected him.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Misterveritis said:

"This proves my earlier point. We no longer have strategists. The war on terror is misnamed. It should be a war on Islam. Islam is the problem so Islam must be eradicated as a political-religion. It is a war of Western civilization against 7th century barbarism. Today it is a war we are losing."

How many resources did it take to defeat the scourge of soviet communism? Granted we did not complete the job. We left the communists in our country in the universities and in the environmental movement.

It does require the desire to win and the effort to develop a long term strategy. If the cost is in trillions it will be over several generations. It could be borne by the simple, and necessary steps of reducing the size and scope of our present welfare state.

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1964 Barry Goldwater called and wants his Bircher rhetoric back, McCarthy is calling too...


What crypto-NAZI nonsense.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Misterveritis said:

"Of course we can lose a war we do not fight. One of our problems is that we fail to recognize the nature of the wars we find ourselves in. We do a poor job of determining what it takes to win. We have long failed to train strategists who can creatively apply national power including diplomacy, propaganda and military force to win."

You are welcome. I hope you will.


Wars have many components. Some have very large components designed to influence the enemy populace. Islamism uses influence in a variety of ways. One is to frighten and intimidate its enemy. Beheadings and rapid successful attacks are useful tools for this. Another is to place agents of influence within the enemy's population. Today we have between 2.5 and 3 million Muslims living in the US. European countries have a larger percentages than we do. In addition they place front groups among us to use our laws against us. We have enemy lobbyist groups who influence our laws and our policy. We have Islamists who are part of the Islamofascist supporter's staff. They constantly, steadily work against us.

They use the divides between us to drive additional wedges between us. We have some, like you and people who believe as you do, that find fault with us and not with our enemies. People like you are very useful to our enemies. You wittingly or unwittingly prepare us for our defeat. No matter how many times people like you are on the wrong side of history there will always be people like you to fulfil your role.

In my opinion the goal of this long period leading up to the use of force is designed to convince us that the war cannot be won, that it is futile to try, and to prevent us from seizing the initiative. It is to prevent people like you, and those who believe as you do, from realizing that we are even in a war. As you can tell from the comments on this board our enemies are succeeding.


Has the Islamofascist supporter on the golf course done anything that would lead you to believe he is not supporting the Islamists? Has he asked the Congress for a declaration of war? Has he used our military might to obliterate the combatants we see? Has he used diplomacy to convince the sources of Islamist power that they had better stop? If not, why not?


This proves my earlier point. We no longer have strategists. The war on terror is misnamed. It should be a war on Islam. Islam is the problem so Islam must be eradicated as a political-religion. It is a war of Western civilization against 7th century barbarism. Today it is a war we are losing.

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Presidents going back to Carter (at least) have supported militant Islamists! Why would only Obama be an Islamofascist?

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Montecresto said:

Presidents going back to Carter (at least) have supported militant Islamists! Why would only Obama be an Islamofascist?

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I have made no claim that other presidents are flawless. We have to deal with the present situation in the present. This president has Islamists on his staff. He pulled troops out of Iraq that could have/would have prevented ISIS in Iraq. He has restrained the military. He is an absentee when he should be present.

After we win this war, if you like, we can discuss the merits of other presidents' approaches.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Misterveritis said:

I have made no claim that other presidents are flawless. We have to deal with the present situation in the present. This president has Islamists on his staff. He pulled troops out of Iraq that could have/would have prevented ISIS in Iraq. He has restrained the military. He is an absentee when he should be present.

After we win this war, if you like, we can discuss the merits of other presidents' approaches.

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American foreign policy transcends presidents. Nothing that is done is without big business in mind. And our military, supplied by our military industrial complex protects those interests. If an authoritarian regime serves those interests, they stay, if not, the American public begin hearing about humanitarian abuses, and if necessary, they will be declared a threat to our national security. During the 50's-70's left leaning democracies in Latin America were replaced by right wing dictatorships. This happened right through democratic and republican administrations. There is no difference. You have a stiff right wing partisan mentality and bias, and as such all problems come from a left wing ideology, which isn't objective or factual. But carry on, press for more war.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

"We have to deal with the present situation in the present. This president has Islamists on his staff. He pulled troops out of Iraq that could have/would have prevented ISIS in Iraq. He has restrained the military. He is an absentee when he should be present.

After we win this war, if you like, we can discuss the merits of other presidents' approaches."

Montecresto said:

American foreign policy transcends presidents.

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Does it?
If so why did the Islamofascist supporter pull our troops from Iraq?
If so why did the Islamofascist supporter encourage ousting Mubarak?
If so why did the Islamofascist supporter encourage ousting Gaddafi?
If so why did the Islamofascist supporter announce our departure from Afghanistan?
If so why did the Islamofascist supporter fail to support Israel?

Nothing that is done is without big business in mind.

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Is crony capitalism now foreign policy? If this were true why has the Marxist sicked his EPA dogs on big coal?

And our military, supplied by our military industrial complex protects those interests.

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I see. No doubt you believe this.

If an authoritarian regime serves those interests, they stay,

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This makes sense to me. I would change "those" interests to "our" interests.

if not, the American public begin hearing about humanitarian abuses, and if necessary, they will be declared a threat to our national security.

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We can disagree. There are many places where we have no interests and they are not declared to be a threat.

During the 50's-70's left leaning democracies in Latin America were replaced by right wing dictatorships. This happened right through democratic and republican administrations. There is no difference.

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Name some countries and dates and let's discuss the reasons.

You have a stiff right wing partisan mentality and bias, and as such all problems come from a left wing ideology, which isn't objective or factual. But carry on, press for more war.

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I word it differently. Left wing and right wing are not very helpful terms. I use Authoritarian statist for all of those who want power concentrated in the state. They tend to be Progressives, fascists, liberals, national socialists, international socialists...statists. On the other side are people like me. I believe the purpose of the state is to protect individual liberty and individual freedom. If you like we can call them Constitutional Conservatives since most of the time we will be referring to US politics.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Montecresto said:

American foreign policy transcends presidents. Nothing that is done is without big business in mind. And our military, supplied by our military industrial complex protects those interests. If an authoritarian regime serves those interests, they stay, if not, the American public begin hearing about humanitarian abuses, and if necessary, they will be declared a threat to our national security. During the 50's-70's left leaning democracies in Latin America were replaced by right wing dictatorships. This happened right through democratic and republican administrations. There is no difference. You have a stiff right wing partisan mentality and bias, and as such all problems come from a left wing ideology, which isn't objective or factual. But carry on, press for more war.

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Is it really pressing for more war? I don't know anybody who wants that other than perhaps a very few amoral, sociopathic individuals in the military industrial complex who covet more markets for their products and therefore more power and wealth for themselves. I think such individuals are in so small a minority that they have little ability to affect policy. They may approve of and even promote war, but ultimately it will be those with somewhat different agendas who take us into war.

The most obvious reasons we go to war are:
1) A President who wants to wag the dog or boost sagging approval ratings or salvage a legacy. . . .
2) A Congress and general public who are outraged by an unwarranted attack by another country or terrorists. . . .
3) A dictator or militant group that intends to commit genocide (a matter of conscience) or control resources that could cripple the economy and/or defense capabilities of free world nations (a matter of practicality).

It is pretty easy to fit the huge majority of military actions into one of those categories.

The War on Terror has been, and will continue to be one giant string of failures. Our international reputation is at an all-time low. And I wonder why? Our attempts to create a liberal-democratic world order were always going to fail. American values are many nations' bête noire. It's about time we sat back and took a non-interventionist approach, an approach without entangling alliances. Trade and nothing more. In contravention to wishes of the globalists and authoritarians over at the UN, the neocons and the liberals. Reclaim foreign policy for the advantage of the ordinary American and stop funding unnecessary war.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Gimmesometruth said:

1964 Barry Goldwater called and wants his Bircher rhetoric back, McCarthy is calling too...


What crypto-NAZI nonsense.

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Most brownshirt nonsense in this country is carefully disguised as concern for "social justice," the rights of various victim groups, etc. And it comes from people who ironically claim to be "liberal." In fact they are the very opposite.

Senator Joseph McCarthy was a very brave man who tried to warn this country about communist subversion that documents which have come to light long after his death prove was all too real. Any time you would like to debate anything about his work with me, come ahead.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

matchlight said:

Most brownshirt nonsense in this country is carefully disguised as concern for "social justice," the rights of various victim groups, etc. And it comes from people who ironically claim to be "liberal." In fact they are the very opposite.

Senator Joseph McCarthy was a very brave man who tried to warn this country about communist subversion that documents which have come to light long after his death prove was all too real. Any time you would like to debate anything about his work with me, come ahead.

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Seriously, I don't need the headache of dealing with crypto-fascist fantasies of the 1950's reds under my bed. It was RW cover to deny labor organization and Civil Right legislation, but it collapsed with the collapse of the Soviet Union... and trying to use it as a talking point now for Islamophobia exposes the Birchers for what they are, extremist nut cases that still linger on the fringe of society.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Gimmesometruth said:

Seriously, I don't need the headache of dealing with crypto-fascist fantasies of the 1950's reds under my bed. It was RW cover to deny labor organization and Civil Right legislation, but it collapsed with the collapse of the Soviet Union... and trying to use it as a talking point now for Islamophobia exposes the Birchers for what they are, extremist nut cases that still linger on the fringe of society.

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I didn't think you'd want to debate me about Joe McCarthy. Maybe some other time, when you don't have a headache.

Hundreds of thousands of pages of documents from a number of sources have become available for the first time during the past twenty or thirty years. These include a trove of Soviet diplomatic cables the U.S. intercepted and decrypted for about thirty years, which were published by the Government Printing Office in the mid-1990's. These documents, read together, prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the security threats McCarthy and other members of Congress were investigating were all too real. In some cases, they were even worse than anyone suspected at the time.

Stalin had taken advantage of the lax security that prevailed when the U.S. and USSR were allies during WWII to infiltrate the government with many dozens of people who were in various ways working for the Soviet Union, and against this country. All sorts of departments in the executive branch, including in the military services, were riddled with these people during Truman's presidency. A few of them were outright KGB agents.

I don't know any members of the John Birch Society (I think there must be about a hundred all together) and I doubt many people pay attention to it any more. But it seems to have caught your attention. You are right that there are extremist nut cases lingering on the fringe of society--no doubt about that. They pop up on sites like this occasionally, making furious rants against "right wingers," Christians, people who support gun rights, and anyone else who loves this country and dares question their intolerant collectivist views. These people on the fringe are sort of today's version of the America-hating Reds of the 1940's and early '50's.

I hadn't heard the term "crypto-fascist" in a long time. It's very insulting, and directing it at any other poster would very likely violate the civility standards here. It was Gore Vidal I first heard use that term when, as a guest on William Buckley's TV show "Firing Line," he called Buckley one. The enraged Buckley responded by swearing at him, calling him a derogatory name that referred to Vidal's homosexuality, and threatening to knock his God damned teeth out. Only too bad he didn't.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Gimmesometruth said:

Seriously, I don't need the headache of dealing with crypto-fascist fantasies of the 1950's reds under my bed. It was RW cover to deny labor organization and Civil Right legislation, but it collapsed with the collapse of the Soviet Union... and trying to use it as a talking point now for Islamophobia exposes the Birchers for what they are, extremist nut cases that still linger on the fringe of society.

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It is clear that after two tries you have learned a new left wing smear. Crypto-Nazi or cypto-fascist.

What do they mean to you?

They mean nothing to me.

Montecresto said:

I'm not scared of Islamic extremists as long as our government promotes sound policy. There's the rub. You, your not concerned with sound policy, or knowing how and why the Islamic State is out of the bottle. You're just scared and want another war in the ME. I assure you, that just as AQ lives, the Islamic State will live.

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I'm very concerned with sound policy, but the time for sound policy was 50 years ago. Or 40 years ago. Or 20 years ago. The time for sound policy is past, we've used unsound policy to generate these animals, now all the sound policy in the world isn't going to make them back down. We've passed the point of no return. You think just walking away from the ME will make them leave us alone. I don't think that's an option any longer.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Misterveritis said:

It is clear that after two tries you have learned a new left wing smear. Crypto-Nazi or cypto-fascist.

What do they mean to you?

They mean nothing to me.

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Of course they don't. I would not expect them to.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Gimmesometruth said:

Of course they don't. I would not expect them to.

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I wanted your explanation.

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror? Begin with the right name for it.

Misterveritis said:

I wanted your explanation.

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You don't have an intertube connection allowing you to look up the "crypto-" prefix?

that's rough.

lizzie said:

I dont care how crazy Islamists live in their societies, when they are muslim societies, since that is a part of what has produced them, but they have brought it to western societies, and they are a scourge. Imo, it is a shame that we can't turn them into dust. Every single one.

(And we aren't going to end this war, because we dont have the stomach to do what it takes)

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Sorry, but ive been to iraq twice and i am in no way in favor of "turning every single one" to dust. Which i assume you mean nuclear holocaust. Most people in iraq are just trying to get by. They are painters, car salesmen, bankers, doctors etc. they are muslim, and are about as devout as the average american that goes to church once in a while.

There is a growing number of assholes that ruin it for the average citizen though.

To answer the op, you never win, but you suppress it and keep it off our shores. You cant do that by wishing it away and closing overseas installations. You do it with boots on the ground and come down on the responsible parties like a hammer crushing a walnut

Sabanist said:

Sorry, but ive been to iraq twice and i am in no way in favor of "turning every single one" to dust. Which i assume you mean nuclear holocaust. Most people in iraq are just trying to get by. They are painters, car salesmen, bankers, doctors etc. they are muslim, and are about as devout as the average american that goes to church once in a while.

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And you, in addition to a couple of others here, apparently have reading comprehension issues. I never said anything about the bread and butter citizens. I will reiterate for you, as I did before- I said CRAZY ISLAMISTS. That doesn't describe your average Iraqi citizen, does it?

And how do you eradicate the crazy from the normal? With ground troops.

Montecresto said:

Apparently, there isn't but a few women in the Peshmerga worried about the Islamic State enough to confront them.

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ISIS forbids music, ISIS forbids Art, it abhors the existance of ancient history.

how can any muslim accept living under a regime that outlaws the existance of some of the great cultural contributions of the islamic world: its art, architecture, and music?