How Do We End The War on Terror?

PoS said:

Its been 13 years since 9/11 and yet it seems there are now more terrorists than ever before. Can this war be won? What are your thoughts on this? Are the governments of the West doing the right things or are they making the situation worse?

As for me, I dont want to see another American solider or civilian killed in a pointless war with no end. The West needs to stop minding the business of other countries. No more overseas military bases or occupation- if these Islamists want to live according to their religion then I say let them do it. These very governments like Saudi Arabia, who we are fighting with to maintain their status quo over there are the very people who bankroll these terrorists. The US has got the largest shale oil deposits in the world- more than the entire middle east combined, why not spend billions in developing these fields and get oil form then instead of letting the Arabs do it and paying them for it?

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I could not agree more. Add to that in the US, foreign policy is for domestic consumption. Period.

Whether it is Vietnam, Afghanistan or Iraq V2.0, there is no real goal. Vietnam was about stopping the "domino effect" a theory invented by a commie hunter. they never had an objective, there was no "win" they could point to.

Afghanistan? I have talked to Canadian soldiers who were in Kandahar and while they knew individual objectives, no one has ever known what "win" looks like...I wonder if they even have a concept for "over."

In Iraq V2.0, Bush went after WMD's, found none but stayed because, well the invasion and assassination of Sadam kind of ruined a structured society all together as the country hasn't had stability since.

And then there was the pull out by Obama. At the time liberals tore into me for suggesting no objectives had been met, the pull out was arbitrary and now here we are.

I agree. It is time the US stopped being the world's policeman, as we are seeing this whole thing is like a heavily armed game of bobbing for apples...you suppress one insurgency here, another pops up there. Change a regime there and have a new enemy here.

It's not working.

DA60 said:

I said 'proof'...not 'evidence'. ANYTHING can be 'evidence'.

So, those links are your 'unbiased, factual proof' of your statement?



Clearly you don't know what 'factual' and 'proof' mean.

So be it.


Your question?

I don't believe America will stop being a target for al Qaeda/ISIS so long as a) the former keeps meddling in the ME and/or b) al Qaeda/ISIS believe they can goad America to meddle in the ME by threatening/carrying out terrorist attacks against her.

No doubt you disagree.

No doubt I don't much care.


We are done here, for now.


Good day.

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You're hilarious and I love you.

Hard Truth said:

I think you mean Afghanistan. There were never a significant number of Buddhists in Iraq.

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Yeah it was Afghanistan.....I was wrong on them in attacking villages in Iraq. They only killed a few in isolated events.

Terrorism is not justifiable, but it is normal human behavior and completely understandable and predictable. Assuming that those who do it are simply crazy fanatics will make it harder to reduce terrorism.

Terrorism is a technique that is mostly used by those who think that they have few alternative methods to achieve their goals. The benefit of terrorism is that it is inexpensive and doesn't require many participants. It doesn't necessarilly succeed in achieving goals, but it it does put the terrorist's grievances in front of the world.

The factors that motivate terrorists are the sense of powerlessness that results from the inability to participate in decision making, lack of education, anger over poverty and injustice, and a desire for revenge for violence from other factions, oppressors, invaders and occupiers. Ideologies and religions give angry people a direction to direct their anger.

People with hope of success through peaceful means do not need to commit violence. Those with an ideology that is oppressed or unpopular are more likely to commit violence. Oppression can be reducd or eliminated, and that will reduce terrorism, but there will always be unpopular ideologies and some people sufficiently committed or crazy enough to want to impose their will. That type of terrorism will never completely disappear.

With technology making travel and communication easier the impact of regional conflicts is worldwide as refugees flee and conflicts spread. The USA's role as world police insures that we will always have enemies.

Terrorism can be drastically reduced be improving education, eliminating, or at least ending our support for oppressive governments, giving everyone a voice in decision making, increasing employment and ending poverty. That will be a long, difficult and expensive struggle. It is not something that can be imposed on unwilling people by outsiders, they have to be convinced and influenced with obvious benefits and by our good example. (ie. by building schools, providing disaster relief and engaging in fair trade.)

Using covert action to influence or control governments and killing people is simpler, easier, more profitable and more fun for the winners. It will not succeed at reducing terrorism unless we kill at a genocidal level, commit to long term occupations of large regions and have a security state at home that will take away our few remaining freedoms and cause significant inconvenience and spend much of our prosperity on endless war.

There is also the option of combining these two options and doing them both halfway, which essentailly has been the USA's strategy since WWII.

Like it or not, like very other type of violence, terrorism is here to stay and nothing will completely end it because there will always be someone out there angry and/or crazy enough to do it. We can let that fact push us into endless war, mass murder and imprisonment and a near complete loss of our freedom.

The alternative is to just live our lives as usual, quietly pursue and catch the perpetrators as the criminals that they are, and refuse to let the most desperate, fanatical and violent people dictate how we live and act while continually struggling to eliminate the causes of terrorism. Since every method will have its costs, failures and difficulties, I think we should choose the option(s) most likely to improve the most lives.

MMC said:

Mornin PoS. :2wave: Well.....the Buddhists didn't bomb them nor occupy them. So why did they go and kill the Buddhists and burn down their temples and homes? Buddhists Shrines etc etc.

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Um, it was Afghanistan, it was the 5th century carved statues....which are being rebuilt. They were dynamited..by extremists...you know....like abortion clinics in the US.

Gimmesometruth said:

Um, it was Afghanistan, it was the 5th century carved statues....which are being rebuilt. They were dynamited..by extremists...you know....like abortion clinics in the US.

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Oh you mean like the March 6 1970 Greenwich Village Bombing by the Weather Underground only done more competently.

Gimmesometruth said:

Um, it was Afghanistan, it was the 5th century carved statues....which are being rebuilt. They were dynamited..by extremists...you know....like abortion clinics in the US.

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Uhm, yeah I think Hard Truth already said that.....huh?

Except for one difference.....the extremists blowing up abortion clinics aren't spreading to other countries overseas. :roll:

Re: How Do We Win The War on Islamic Terror?

Misterveritis said:

"Am I wrong to see that you are largely anti-American? It has been our actions...had we not interfered...we made our own problems...we are the bullies?"

You should have just said "Yes, Mr. Veritis. I am an anti-American leftist."

That would have been correct and sufficient.

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:roll:

MMC said:

Uhm, yeah I think Hard Truth already said that.....huh?

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No, huh...the statues were not mentioned.

Except for one difference.....the extremists blowing up abortion clinics aren't spreading to other countries overseas. :roll:

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Taliban....are spreading terrorism ....overseas?

Besides, the context was...terrorism within a state by religious extremists against other beliefs.

Ockham said:

Oh you mean like the March 6 1970 Greenwich Village Bombing by the Weather Underground only done more competently.

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Oh, the Weathermen....was a group of religious extremists?

Good to know.

Gimmesometruth said:

Oh, the Weathermen....was a group of religious extremists?

Good to know.

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Nah - just home grown terrorists who blew themselves up more than others. A group full of dull tools in the shed. But I now understand your prior point. :thumbs:

Hard Truth said:

On the other hand, if Attaturk still came to power his promotion of secular government, relatively democratic government and literacy might have spread throughout the region.

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After the genocides, maybe.

Gimmesometruth said:

No, huh...the statues were not mentioned.

Taliban....are spreading terrorism ....overseas?

Besides, the context was...terrorism within a state by religious extremists against other beliefs.

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A little slow today huh.....That's why I bolded about Afghanistan. The Statues part wasn't important as it was just the attacks and in other countries. which we all know there were attacks in Afghanistan.

The Taliban are part of other Terrorist organizations like AQ, the MB, and now the Pakistan Taliban with ISIS. As a matter fact when BO released the Fab 5 they even reported on all the contacts they had. So yes they network.

The OP is what should we do to end the war on terror. So that's where the real context is. Just sayin. :roll:

MMC said:

A little slow today huh.....

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Today? I find you slow all the time.

That's why I bolded about Afghanistan.

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About? Oh my.

The Statues part wasn't important as it was just the attacks and in other countries.

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Dude, you were confused about who, what and where....a trifecta.

which we all know there were attacks in Afghanistan.

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Yeah....against Buddhist statues.

The Taliban are part of other Terrorist organizations like AQ, the MB, and now the Pakistan Taliban with ISIS. As a matter fact when BO released the Fab 5 they even reported on all the contacts they had. So yes they network.

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Oh, they "network"....goalpost moved....as per usual.

The OP is what should we do to end the war on terror. So that's where the real context is. Just sayin. :roll:

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I believe "just sayin" is a give-away of IQ.

Gimmesometruth said:

Today? I find you slow all the time.About? Oh my. Dude, you were confused about who, what and where....a trifecta. Yeah....against Buddhist statues.

Oh, they "network"....goalpost moved....as per usual.

I believe "just sayin" is a give-away of IQ.

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Nah as usual you are always outclassed and outthought. Always two days behind in reality. But it doesn't bother me.....no matter how many smart pills you thought you took today.

lizzie said:

I dont care how crazy Islamists live in their societies, when they are muslim societies, since that is a part of what has produced them, but they have brought it to western societies, and they are a scourge. Imo, it is a shame that we can't turn them into dust. Every single one.

(And we aren't going to end this war, because we dont have the stomach to do what it takes)

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The conciliatory, apologetic, Islam is wonderful and we have been scum strategy certainly didn't accomplish anything more than to make us a laughing stock and appear timid.

The politically correct strategy hasn't worked. Because every now and then a non-Muslim commits an atrocity, let's just ignore that 90+ percent of terrorist acts and atrocities and attempted terrorist acts and atrocities all over the world are being committed by Muslim extremists or Muslim opportunists. We are supposed to not notice that, do no profiling, avoid using terms Muslim or Islam as much as possible lest we possibly offend a peaceful Muslim. All this has accomplished is to inform the terrorist that terrorism is working, they are effectively affecting our behavior in almost every way, and we are impotent and weak vermin to be exterminated.

The let's buy their friendship hasn't worked. They gladly take our money, but very little of it goes for food, clothes, and medicine for the people as intended. Most, if not all of it, seems to be going to finance training camps for new terrorists and for weapons they hope to use on us.

The whack-a-mole strategy hasn't worked--a missile here, some bombs there, send in a few drones, etc.--and every time the intended targets slip through our fingers, you can almost hear the snickering and guffaws at how stupid and anemic we are. If we do manage to kill or arrest one of them, he immediately becomes a glorified martyr championing the glory of Allah. And if they are lucky enough to get some of the women and children into our line of fire so there will be injuries or deaths, they score big because they can use that effectively in their P.R. campaign to brand us the terrible, evil infidels that they believe that we are.

I suggest we stop all of that ineffective stuff that just encourages and empowers the enemy.

And then I suggest we establish a firm resolve to stop being the world's police force against terrorism. I don't know whether the idea originated with him, but I heard Bill O'Reilly propose a plan recently that made a lot of sense. Call together all the world's leaders of peaceful nations and have each provide X number of well paid and well trained volunteer mercenary fighters to form a strike force of at least 25,000 guys. Each country maybe proportionately by population will help finance the strike force that will go in with overwhelming force to terribly rout out and punish terrorists wherever they commit terrorism or to stop terrorists when plots are uncovered in advance. No punches will be pulled and retaliation for terrorism will be swift and certain. Any nations who do not participate and help with the funding will be on their own and can expect no intervention or help from anybody else. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to be the best idea I've seen put out there yet.

Misterveritis said:

And in a few years you will be blaming george bush for missing the clues and failing to connect the dots...

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Doubt it.

PoS said:

Its been 13 years since 9/11 and yet it seems there are now more terrorists than ever before. Can this war be won? What are your thoughts on this? Are the governments of the West doing the right things or are they making the situation worse?

As for me, I dont want to see another American solider or civilian killed in a pointless war with no end. The West needs to stop minding the business of other countries. No more overseas military bases or occupation- if these Islamists want to live according to their religion then I say let them do it. These very governments like Saudi Arabia, who we are fighting with to maintain their status quo over there are the very people who bankroll these terrorists. The US has got the largest shale oil deposits in the world- more than the entire middle east combined, why not spend billions in developing these fields and get oil form then instead of letting the Arabs do it and paying them for it?

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The war on terrorism can be ended as easily as the war on drugs. Both have become industries, both have claimed a moral high ground and made themselves entrenched, established and irrefutable.
Just stop. Done. Defend yourselves at home and let the crazies fight the lunatics abroad. They don't need guidance.
As for oil, did you know that the US imports twice as much oil from Canada as it does from Saudi Arabia? Those Arabs don't have near the stranglehold on the US that many people believe. They'd be easy to shake off.

Apocalypse said:

You're hilarious and I love you.

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And I have very little respect for you on this subject.

And you still have not proven your matter-of-fact statement.

And, btw, it is impossible to prove your statement (I just asked to see how you would react - and your response was predictable).


Good day.

AlbqOwl said:

The conciliatory, apologetic, Islam is wonderful and we have been scum strategy certainly didn't accomplish anything more than to make us a laughing stock and appear timid.

The politically correct strategy hasn't worked. Because every now and then a non-Muslim commits an atrocity, let's just ignore that 90+ percent of terrorist acts and atrocities and attempted terrorist acts and atrocities all over the world are being committed by Muslim extremists or Muslim opportunists. We are supposed to not notice that, do no profiling, avoid using terms Muslim or Islam as much as possible lest we possibly offend a peaceful Muslim. All this has accomplished is to inform the terrorist that terrorism is working, they are effectively affecting our behavior in almost every way, and we are impotent and weak vermin to be exterminated.

The let's buy their friendship hasn't worked. They gladly take our money, but very little of it goes for food, clothes, and medicine for the people as intended. Most, if not all of it, seems to be going to finance training camps for new terrorists and for weapons they hope to use on us.

The whack-a-mole strategy hasn't worked--a missile here, some bombs there, send in a few drones, etc.--and every time the intended targets slip through our fingers, you can almost hear the snickering and guffaws at how stupid and anemic we are. If we do manage to kill or arrest one of them, he immediately becomes a glorified martyr championing the glory of Allah. And if they are lucky enough to get some of the women and children into our line of fire so there will be injuries or deaths, they score big because they can use that effectively in their P.R. campaign to brand us the terrible, evil infidels that they believe that we are.

I suggest we stop all of that ineffective stuff that just encourages and empowers the enemy.

And then I suggest we establish a firm resolve to stop being the world's police force against terrorism. I don't know whether the idea originated with him, but I heard Bill O'Reilly propose a plan recently that made a lot of sense. Call together all the world's leaders of peaceful nations and have each provide X number of well paid and well trained volunteer mercenary fighters to form a strike force of at least 25,000 guys. Each country maybe proportionately by population will help finance the strike force that will go in with overwhelming force to terribly rout out and punish terrorists wherever they commit terrorism or to stop terrorists when plots are uncovered in advance. No punches will be pulled and retaliation for terrorism will be swift and certain. Any nations who do not participate and help with the funding will be on their own and can expect no intervention or help from anybody else. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to be the best idea I've seen put out there yet.

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Good idea except for one thing. One cannot eradicate terrorism by force alone. Plus if one were to pile up all the peaceful nation forces in a polar position to terrorists it may polarize positions even more (i.e., may increase recruiting).

The best possible scenario would be for another superpower (e.g., Russia or China?) to attempt to squash terrorists by force. Sometime the smarter members of the country may turn for help towards us. Then we could intervene (with agreement of course) and "remove" the superpowers' suppressive force. Then we could be heroes rather then the enemy and we would eliminate terror.

Thereby perhaps the sum of all and possible other ideas may do better service to aid anti-terror campaigns compared to just force.

Apocalypse said:

Hilarious. I just did. Post #101 names a lot and I bet you can find way more by looking here:
List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That you need me to name it to you and that you do not know of the existence of such attacks yet choose to debate it is insane.

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You gave me a list of attacks by Islamists in countries whose governments have military occupations in Islamic countries. So thanks for confirming what I said and youve proved yourself wrong too. Well done.

And get killed for different reasons. Good luck with that, you might as well commit suicide if this is your "way".

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Why should I commit suicide if Im not harming anyone?

Depends on the circumstance.
Killing people isn't always a crime.
You attack a person with a knife he pulls a gun and shoots you down - a crime? Not so much.
Murder's a crime. Thievery's a crime. Terrorism's a crime.

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And bombing people under false circumstance is a crime and occupying land that doesnt belong to your own country is also a crime. They are called war crimes.

Hilarious. You'd go so far to blame ****ing Indonesia for meddling with terrorists instead of admitting that your claim is bollocks. Simply hilarious.

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Indonesia has been fighting seperatists since they became a country. there are homegrown terrorists everywhere, like Tim McVeigh. But they dont export their terror to other countries because they arent occupied by said countries.

More planes, more countries involved and more attacks targeting the terrorists and killing a larger sum of them.

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What do you think the West and Isreal has been doing? Playing patty cakes? Thery have done all that you suggested. And it isnt working. You are obviously too blind to see that.

PoS said:

Its been 13 years since 9/11 and yet it seems there are now more terrorists than ever before. Can this war be won? What are your thoughts on this? Are the governments of the West doing the right things or are they making the situation worse?

As for me, I dont want to see another American solider or civilian killed in a pointless war with no end. The West needs to stop minding the business of other countries. No more overseas military bases or occupation- if these Islamists want to live according to their religion then I say let them do it. These very governments like Saudi Arabia, who we are fighting with to maintain their status quo over there are the very people who bankroll these terrorists. The US has got the largest shale oil deposits in the world- more than the entire middle east combined, why not spend billions in developing these fields and get oil form then instead of letting the Arabs do it and paying them for it?

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Grand Mal said:

The war on terrorism can be ended as easily as the war on drugs. Both have become industries, both have claimed a moral high ground and made themselves entrenched, established and irrefutable.
Just stop. Done. Defend yourselves at home and let the crazies fight the lunatics abroad. They don't need guidance.
As for oil, did you know that the US imports twice as much oil from Canada as it does from Saudi Arabia? Those Arabs don't have near the stranglehold on the US that many people believe. They'd be easy to shake off.

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Those suggestions will work fine until there is another 9/11 on the homeland. At this point he strategy is containment, fighting proxy wars and tying up the enemies resources as far away from shore as possible. And it's worked for 13 years.

The only way to end the threat once for all, is to take a step that many aren't prepared to do, and that is to recolonize the middle east, fix the countries under our authority (not give it to them to mess things up and hand over to radicals). That's not something we're ready to do, nor do I think the threat warrants it. Though I do think that at some point in the future (possibly near), it will be something will have consider when a mushroom cloud forms over a major western city. Like I said though, for now, containment works.

PoS said:

You gave me a list of attacks by Islamists in countries whose governments have military occupations in Islamic countries. So thanks for confirming what I said and youve proved yourself wrong too. Well done.

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Indonesia and China and India and the others in the link I've given you do not occupy any Islamic lands.
I'm afraid that it is pretty much a scientific fact by now that your claims are nothing but bollocks.

Apocalypse said:

Indonesia and China and India and the others in the link I've given you do not occupy any Islamic lands.

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Those three countries and many others are fighting Islamic seperatists and those groups havent attacked anyone outside of those countries. You know, like Hamas hasnt attacked the US either.

So youre wrong again.

A note to readers always , ALWAYS , go through these mass source propaganda type posts. You will be surprised what you find.

Remember the incidents in the list are supposed to be a response to this statement

" Funny, I haven't heard of any large Islamic attacks on Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, The Bahamas and on and on "

and are supposed to refute the charge that if you don't get involved in attacking other countries you are safer from attack than if you do

here's the list again and my response will be , because of the sheer numbers/site word restrictions , carried out over a series of posts for reasons of clarity starting at the beginning

2010 Stockholm bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (It didn't happen to Schweden!!11one)
Syrian Islamist group planning terror attack on Norway, warns intelligence service | Daily Mail Online
Norway Faces Terror Attack From Group Linked To Extremists In Syria, Officials Warn
Air France Flight 8969 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Khobar Towers bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Luxor massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2002 Bali bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2004 Australian Embassy bombing in Jakarta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7 July 2005 London bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Coordinated Attacks Kill Dozens in India's Financial Capital
2009 Beledweyne bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Peshawar church attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Westgate shopping mall attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2011 Hotan attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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1. 2010 Stockholm bombings

Two bombs went off in the attacks carried out by a Muslim of Iraqi origin who had posted links to videos of Iraqi prisoner abuses ( presumably Abu Ghraib ) on his face book account. Before the bombs went off an email was sent to the Swedish authorities and a media outlet that stated the attack was a response to Swedish forces involvement in Afghanistan , it also stated “"Now your children, daughters and sisters will die in the same way our brothers and sisters die “

The bomber himself was the only fatality with two people receiving minor injuries

To conclude it was not a “ large scale “ attack . And it actually confirms the opposite of what the poster intended IE Swedish involvement in the war was what inspired it ( get used to the idea , it will appear again soon )


2. Syrian Islamist group planning terror attack on Norway

This second link doesn’t even refer to an attack that has occurred , it only refers to speculation that some Norwegian Muslims might plan stuff on their return from Syria where , you’ve guessed it , Western interference and that of its allies has accounted for much of the death and destruction there. If the US and others carry out the threat to extend bombing campaigns in Syria these people may well carry out their alleged plans.

Once again this runs directly counter to the posters alleged assertion and is not proof of his claims anyhow