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How Do We End The War on Terror?

What Should We Do To End The Terror War?

  • The West is doing the right thing.

    Votes: 4 7.5%
  • We need more WAAAUGH! We need to bomb more! Boots on the ground!

    Votes: 6 11.3%
  • The West needs to change their foreign policy. Stop meddling in other countries.

    Votes: 30 56.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 13 24.5%

  • Total voters
    53
This isn't a problem that can be solved. Decades ago, I might have said pulling out of the Middle East and allowing them to control their own destiny might have been enough, but the west has forced generations of Muslims to become radicalized, to the point that even if we pulled out completely tomorrow, they'd still hate us and still want to kill us. Lizzie said that we need to turn them to dust and, unfortunately, that's probably closer to the truth. Not for all Muslims, of course, just for the extremists, but in so doing, you'll just radicalize even more of them. I think we've passed the point of no return, where no matter what we do, we lose and we don't have the balls to do what has to be done to actually solve the problem.
 
I have no clue how to end it, and I suspect nobody else does either. The entire Middle East is a powder keg of history, tribalism, religion, energy, economics, geopolitical influences, constantly shifting loyalties that the brightest and the best (which we've rarely ever had) would be hard put to make sense of. If we had become energy independent thirty years ago we might have been able to extricate ourselves and say "sayonara." But the region is going to go nuclear very soon, and with the rise of extremism that basically means we're stuck there forever, and nothing we do is going to eliminate terrorism.
 
First off, you cant have war on a tactic.
Second off, we need to stop medling in other countries businesses, we need to stop supporting regimes that support terrorism, and the US government also needs to stop supporting terrorist groups either directly, and stop doing actions that create more terrorists.

They're going nuclear very soon, which means we have to do what we can to make sure the craziest elements don't end up controlling the entire region. You can certainly say "Well I don't like that," to which I would respond, "What's there to like?"
 
This isn't a problem that can be solved. Decades ago, I might have said pulling out of the Middle East and allowing them to control their own destiny might have been enough, but the west has forced generations of Muslims to become radicalized, to the point that even if we pulled out completely tomorrow, they'd still hate us and still want to kill us. Lizzie said that we need to turn them to dust and, unfortunately, that's probably closer to the truth.
Not for all Muslims, of course, just for the extremists
, but in so doing, you'll just radicalize even more of them. I think we've passed the point of no return, where no matter what we do, we lose and we don't have the balls to do what has to be done to actually solve the problem.

Now if we could just develop a cruise missile that only targeted extremists we'd be all set.
 
Now if we could just develop a cruise missile that only targeted extremists we'd be all set.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way and the more we meddle in their business, the more we push toward extremism. This is a mess that we could have fixed 30 years ago. I don't think we can fix it now.
 
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way and the more we meddle in their business, the more we push toward extremism. This is a mess that we could have fixed 30 years ago. I don't think we can fix it now.

Yes, I know, I was being sardonical.
 
I understand mines not a popular view as far as some are concerned but i for one am grateful that not every single person living in a Muslim society has been turned to dust.

.

Reading comprehension issues? The subject is ISIS (note my reference to crazy Islamists), not every single person in a Muslim society. ISIS members are the terrorists. And yes, I would turn every single one of them into dust. In a heart beat. I'd take no prisoners. To me, if you're going to war, then kill your enemy.
 
Maybe, I'm too easy going when someone strongly voices exasperation. Maybe, others are more perfect of thought.

No exasperation here. I am of perfectly sound mind, and sober of thought. I have no tolerance for terrorists, and if I had the choice, every single one of them would vanish. I hate war, and I hate violence, and I am almost always a pacifist when it comes to foreign actions. That being said, I am objective enough, and sober enough, to realize what it takes to eradicate a problem, and I am always up to the task, no matter how messy it is.
 
No direct evidence of that.

Every country that has had the time, the technology and the will has gotten the bomb eventually. The fact that we've been able to keep them from going nuclear to this point is, frankly, nothing short of extraordinary, and for all our screwups I'm actually kind of amazed we've been so successful in that respect. And it's not just us saying "don't go nuclear or we'll hit you with a big stick" that's keeping them from acquiring the bomb, but for many of them it's the knowledge that us being there is keeping things from getting too crazy. If we picked up and left each leader would be uncomfortably aware that there is no larger power maintaining a semblance of balance (which if you'll notice isn't doing so well lately), and they'll do what they have to in order to protect themselves.

Also, take note of Pakistan. We can not leave that region alone ever again. It is nuclear, the government is always fragile, and extreme elements could take over at any time (it was *this close* to being a failed state two years ago) and take control of its nuclear arsenal. So imagine Pakistan plus the Middle East, and that's our future.

Final edit: Iran is nuclear, they just haven't weaponized their nuclear program. The only reason they haven't done so is because it is the end-all, be-all ace card for keeping us at the negotiating table.
 
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Every country that has had the time, the technology and the will has gotten the bomb eventually. The fact that we've been able to keep them from going nuclear to this point is, frankly, nothing short of extraordinary, and for all our screwups I'm actually kind of amazed we've been so successful in that respect. And it's not just us saying "don't go nuclear or we'll hit you with a big stick" that's keeping them from acquiring the bomb, but for many of them it's the knowledge that us being there is keeping things from getting too crazy. If we picked up and left each leader would be uncomfortably aware that there is no larger power maintaining a semblance of balance (which if you'll notice isn't doing so well lately), and they'll do what they have to in order to protect themselves.
Are you talking about Iran? If so, just come out and say it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/w...see-no-move-by-iran-to-build-a-bomb.html?_r=0
U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb - Los Angeles Times
Clapper: Iran Still Not Building Nukes; Sanctions Intended to Foster Unrest « Antiwar.com Blog
'Mossad, CIA agree Iran has yet to decide to build nuclear weapon' Israel News | Haaretz
Also, take note of Pakistan. We can not leave that region alone ever again. It is nuclear, the government is always fragile, and extreme elements could take over at any time (it was *this close* to being a failed state two years ago) and take control of its nuclear arsenal. So imagine Pakistan plus the Middle East, and that's our future.
Pakistan is worrysome, I agree. But then again there is little threat that Pakistani nuclear weapons will actually fall into the hands of terrorists. Sure parts of Pakistan are unstable, but then again 2014 report: Pakistan ‘most improved’ in nuclear security, India not so – The Express Tribune
 
No exasperation here. I am of perfectly sound mind, and sober of thought. I have no tolerance for terrorists, and if I had the choice, every single one of them would vanish. I hate war, and I hate violence, and I am almost always a pacifist when it comes to foreign actions. That being said, I am objective enough, and sober enough, to realize what it takes to eradicate a problem, and I am always up to the task, no matter how messy it is.


Okayyy,

understood, accepted, and agreed.

I don't know if I should slink away to sit in the corner or get out the pom poms and cheer you on.

Think I'll cheer you on.... :applaud

living is a full time job

Thom Paine
 
We need to pull out of the Middle East. We should just let them fight it out themselves. They have been fighting for thousands of years and will be fighting for another thousand years. We just have to let them know that if they mess with us on our own turf that we will be on them like gummies bears on a set of braces. I know it is not as simple as that, but it is their turf and their problem over there.
 
I have no clue how to end it, and I suspect nobody else does either. The entire Middle East is a powder keg of history, tribalism, religion, energy, economics, geopolitical influences, constantly shifting loyalties that the brightest and the best (which we've rarely ever had) would be hard put to make sense of. If we had become energy independent thirty years ago we might have been able to extricate ourselves and say "sayonara." But the region is going to go nuclear very soon, and with the rise of extremism that basically means we're stuck there forever, and nothing we do is going to eliminate terrorism.

I agree that there are no easy answers to what's going on there. Sometimes I wonder if a pan-Arab state created after WWI would have been the best option for the Middle East, or if that too would eventually have blown up.
 
You know, I must admit that it is kind of humorous to read the awesome display of naivete' in this thread.

It is called a "War" on terror for a reason. I don't think there is a single sane person who seriously believes that there is a diplomatic solution to the Islamic terror threat. Diplomacy requires a negotiation, one in which both sides are interested in resolving the current dispute, and in order to do that, are willing to give up some of their ultimate goal in exchange for agreement. Islamic extremism has clearly demonstrated they are not interested in compromise.

So, diplomacy is off the table.

That leaves only two alternatives .. capitulate or conquer. It truly is no more difficult than that. Either they win, or we win. Anybody who believes there is some magical middle ground is seriously deluded. The opposition is not interested in middle ground.

For purposes of this discussion, we'll assume capitulation is a non-starter. (Although, frankly, I am not convinced that is the case in Washington, DC these days).

So, how do we conquer? Frankly, the military solution to winning the war is relatively easy. We turn loose the world's most powerful military with a mandate to take control of a strategically important area. We recognize that war is ugly, that people die, and that those deaths (whether they be our soldiers or theirs, whether they be our civilians or theirs) are a necessary price that must be paid for successful prosecution of the war.

Then what? I remember two countries ... both of them, as a result of war, were put on a path to democracy. The path was ugly ... people tried to establish their own fiefdoms, people tried to assume command, both countries wrote constitutions that were thrown out and new documents created. Both countries, because of political expediency, were forced to create a whole addendum dedicated to restricting the power of the government. Both countries struggled for 10 years or more, and eventually, they both got it right.

We have no desire to establish a 51st state in the Middle East. But, we need to recognize that, as the most powerful nation on earth, we have a responsibility to support establishment of a state/country that can further the goals of democracy. We need to provide the nascent country the security and protection necessary for their populace to learn, establish, and exercise those activities needed for self government. We need to ensure that the people have the knowledge, the ability, the opportunity and, most importantly, the time for self government. We have done it successfully in the past and we need to do it again.

We were well on the way to this in Iraq - until we quit. We were moving in the right direction. Everybody complains about supporting Maliki ... we didn't support Maliki. We supported the government that the people of Iraq elected. We know it wasn't the final answer ... but then, democracy is ugly, convoluted, and difficult. We need to make a commitment to the people of this new country ... and we need to live up to it, no matter what. Help them to create a functioning government, a functioning economy. Help them to realize the gifts we were given...

Besides, the first time the Iranians look over the fence and see all those big screen TVs and gallons of mayonnaise being carried out of the new Iraqi Walmart ... they will overthrow the government, and create their own new democracy!!!
 
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I agree that there are no easy answers to what's going on there. Sometimes I wonder if a pan-Arab state created after WWI would have been the best option for the Middle East, or if that too would eventually have blown up.

The answers are easy ... it's the execution that's a bitch.
 
Reading comprehension issues? The subject is ISIS (note my reference to crazy Islamists), not every single person in a Muslim society. ISIS members are the terrorists. And yes, I would turn every single one of them into dust. In a heart beat. I'd take no prisoners. To me, if you're going to war, then kill your enemy.

Then perhaps you can clarify this part of your comment?

And we aren't going to end this war, because we dont have the stomach to do what it takes)

What will it take?
 
Its been 13 years since 9/11 and yet it seems there are now more terrorists than ever before. Can this war be won? What are your thoughts on this? Are the governments of the West doing the right things or are they making the situation worse?

The war will be won. Its a matter of who has the will and resources to see it through. The terrorists want to kill us and I think have proved that they're serious about their goals.

No, we're not doing the right things. I think what we will do is show the people who are polling for this latest action some response while those actions are popular and then we'll discontinue until there is another threat brought to light by the media or we're attacked again.

There may have been some things we've done to make things worse. I don't see how we can change those things to the satisfaction of those sworn to destroy us. I think one of the things we've done is support Israel.

As for me, I dont want to see another American solider or civilian killed in a pointless war with no end. The West needs to stop minding the business of other countries. No more overseas military bases or occupation- if these Islamists want to live according to their religion then I say let them do it. These very governments like Saudi Arabia, who we are fighting with to maintain their status quo over there are the very people who bankroll these terrorists. The US has got the largest shale oil deposits in the world- more than the entire middle east combined, why not spend billions in developing these fields and get oil form then instead of letting the Arabs do it and paying them for it?

I don't want any more blood or money spent until or unless we're committed to seek an outcome that will eliminate the threat and I am quite confident that we will not do that. So we need to stay home.
 
Its been 13 years since 9/11 and yet it seems there are now more terrorists than ever before. Can this war be won? What are your thoughts on this? Are the governments of the West doing the right things or are they making the situation worse?

As for me, I dont want to see another American solider or civilian killed in a pointless war with no end. The West needs to stop minding the business of other countries. No more overseas military bases or occupation- if these Islamists want to live according to their religion then I say let them do it. These very governments like Saudi Arabia, who we are fighting with to maintain their status quo over there are the very people who bankroll these terrorists. The US has got the largest shale oil deposits in the world- more than the entire middle east combined, why not spend billions in developing these fields and get oil form then instead of letting the Arabs do it and paying them for it?

True on our sources of energy. This nation if it wanted to could be totally energy self sufficient in 5 to 10 years. That would mean no more trade deficits amounting to between 500 million to a billion dollars going to pay for oil and the like from the middle east. No more having to keep the sea lanes open so we can receive that oil. Think of all the jobs that would be created here in the good old USA. The money now going to other countries to help their economy and create jobs for them would be spent here to do the same for us. It is a win, win situation, but in the game of both domestic and geopolitics it will not happen.

No, I do not think the war on terrorism can be won. Our best hope is to contain it. If there is a will for some terrorist, individual or organization that wants to do harm here, they can. Especially if they are willing to die. Today, it is more organizations than countries although countries as you stated back the terrorist if it suits their needs.
 
True on our sources of energy. This nation if it wanted to could be totally energy self sufficient in 5 to 10 years. That would mean no more trade deficits amounting to between 500 million to a billion dollars going to pay for oil and the like from the middle east. No more having to keep the sea lanes open so we can receive that oil. Think of all the jobs that would be created here in the good old USA. The money now going to other countries to help their economy and create jobs for them would be spent here to do the same for us. It is a win, win situation, but in the game of both domestic and geopolitics it will not happen.

No, I do not think the war on terrorism can be won. Our best hope is to contain it. If there is a will for some terrorist, individual or organization that wants to do harm here, they can. Especially if they are willing to die. Today, it is more organizations than countries although countries as you stated back the terrorist if it suits their needs.

I meant 500 billion, not million
 
Terror is an emotion. It's with us for life.


Terrorism is a matter of legal definition. It is a tactic. One that has been in use, so far as I know, since pre history. Even God is in on the act of terrorism.

So when will it end?


When the human race expires.
 

See edit.

Pakistan is worrysome, I agree. But then again there is little threat that Pakistani nuclear weapons will actually fall into the hands of terrorists. Sure parts of Pakistan are unstable, but then again 2014 report: Pakistan ‘most improved’ in nuclear security, India not so – The Express Tribune

The stability of Pakistan's government sways back and forth based on who's in charge. Under Musharraf the country was doing okay (at least it didn't give the world too much reason to start chewing its fingernails). After Musharaff? Ehh, not so much. That's just how non-Democracies roll. As long as Pakistan's government can't exercise control over it's entire area it's a serious cause for concern. As for nuclear security I'll be happier when Pakistan moves up into one of those lighter blue colors. Australia, Canada, Norway, France and Iceland are more secure than us? Jesus, aren't we better than Australia at anything?
 
Terrorism is a tactic. You can't defeat a tactic. So long as there are people who don't have any other options, guerrilla tactics and violence will be the resort they turn to. What will end the current drop of Jihadist terrorism will be the Middle East joining the modern world. When the people have sovereignty, security, wealth, and secularism like the west, they will no longer turn to this last resort.
 
I dont care how crazy Islamists live in their societies, when they are muslim societies, since that is a part of what has produced them, but they have brought it to western societies, and they are a scourge. Imo, it is a shame that we can't turn them into dust. Every single one.

(And we aren't going to end this war, because we dont have the stomach to do what it takes)

It only takes three posts before genocide of two billion people is advocated to fight terrorism..and gets four 'likes.'.....
 
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