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How Do We End The War on Terror?

What Should We Do To End The Terror War?

  • The West is doing the right thing.

    Votes: 4 7.5%

  • We need more WAAAUGH! We need to bomb more! Boots on the ground!

    Votes: 6 11.3%

  • The West needs to change their foreign policy. Stop meddling in other countries.

    Votes: 30 56.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 13 24.5%
  • Total voters
    53
Misterveritis said:
True. Obama gave away a victory to appease his base. And because it mirrors his belief that we need to be taken down so we are just like all other nations.
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At any rate, US policy in the ME is FAILURE.
 
cpwill said:
:lol: I literally quoted your own link right back to you.

Here are some other fun citations:



That report being Phase 1. Then for Phase 2 of the Report, Democrats took over, having won control of the Senate in 2006. At which point they locked the minority out of the process and proceeded to drive a purely partisan effort.

Page 161 of Phase II Report - Minority Views of Senator Chambliss, Vice Chairman Bond, and Senator Hatch

....The final two Phase II reports and the process that produced them are a great disappointment. The products are poor and the process that produced them was regrettable. Although the Minority requested to be involved in the production of these reports at the start of the 110th Congress, we were excluded from the drafting of these reports and deprived of any meaningful role in the work that produced them...​

Enjoy scrolling up through the proposed amendments. They pretty much go point by point with what you are quoting and destroy them with citation. :)

So, IOW, when the process was actually Bi-Partisan, it decided unanimously that flawed intelligence and analysis - not administration deception - was responsible for flawed statements by senior policy makers.... unlike what you are claiming occurred. The section you are citing was strictly a partisan document.

Again, let me know when you are willing to admit what the vote was on the bit you are citing and claiming is oh-so-bipartisan :) Democrats claiming that the mean ole Bush administration is just a bunch of liars in the middle of a Presidential election isn't exactly credible, but if it's what you need to depend on...
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Read.

Bush Did Lie About Iraq | Consortiumnews
 
apdst said:
Last count I heard was 258 sorties over the past month. During Desert Storm we flee hundreds of sorties a day. We're nowhere close to unleashing hell.
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Im pretty sure the West would be willing to fly hundreds of sorties a day against ISIS if they had more targets so I dont think thats an issue. Unless you mean shooting anything that moves or putting boots on the ground, I dont see how the West could turn it up any more.
 
PoS said:
Im pretty sure the West would be willing to fly hundreds of sorties a day against ISIS if they had more targets so I dont think thats an issue. Unless you mean shooting anything that moves or putting boots on the ground, I dont see how the West could turn it up any more.
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How many airstrikes have been launched agsinst ISIS forces attacking Kobani?
 
apdst said:
How many airstrikes have been launched agsinst ISIS forces attacking Kobani?
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We should be asking that question elsewhere. On one side of the Islamic State is the worlds fourth largest army, on their other side is NATO's second largest army, neither of which have lifted very much at all. Together they could cause us to be asking, Islamic State! What Islamic State?

But I suppose, any port in a storm when criticism of Obama is the objective.
 
Montecresto said:
We should be asking that question elsewhere. On one side of the Islamic State is the worlds fourth largest army, on their other side is NATO's second largest army, neither of which have lifted very much at all. Together they could cause us to be asking, Islamic State! What Islamic State?

But I suppose, any port in a storm when criticism of Obama is the objective.
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Ok! We heard you the first 17 times you said that!
 
apdst said:
Ok! We heard you the first 17 times you said that!
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Then stop bitching that the US isn't launching a full scale war again in the ME, and lean on SA and the Turk's! And it's been 14, can't you even get that straight?
 
Montecresto said:
Then stop bitching that the US isn't launching a full scale war again in the ME, and lean on SA and the Turk's! And it's been 14, can't you even get that straight?
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Who's bitching? I'm only pointing out that this is a half-assed attempt at fighting ISIS. Blame who you want, but it is what is.
 
apdst said:
Who's bitching? I'm only pointing out that this is a half-assed attempt at fighting ISIS. Blame who you want, but it is what is.
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And I'm only pointing out that the Saudis and the Turks have a no-assed attempt at fighting the Islamic State menacing their back yards. So I would prefer that Obama didn't even do a half-assed attempt at it.
 
Montecresto said:
And I'm only pointing out that the Saudis and the Turks have a no-assed attempt at fighting the Islamic State menacing their back yards. So I would prefer that Obama didn't even do a half-assed attempt at it.
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And, covering for Obama. Have you noticed the thread topic?
 
apdst said:
And, covering for Obama. Have you noticed the thread topic?
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Wtf are you talking about dude!!?? I just criticized Obama for doing a half measure, because I want him to do NO measure. Why don't you understand that. As long as you can criticise Obama, your blood sugars are level and you can make it through another day. Why in the hell isn't Turkey and Saudi Arabia crushing the Islamic State? And why in the hell do you want Obama to commit to another war in the ME?
 
Montecresto said:
Wtf are you talking about dude!!?? I just criticized Obama for doing a half measure, because I want him to do NO measure. Why don't you understand that. As long as you can criticise Obama, your blood sugars are level and you can make it through another day. Why in the hell isn't Turkey and Saudi Arabia crushing the Islamic State? And why in the hell do you want Obama to commit to another war in the ME?
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Personally, I don't. I don't think we should have been in any of the other ME wars either. However, we all know that Turkey and Saudi Arabia aren't going to do a damn thing about ISIL, any more than Iraq, Iran or Syria would without outside military support. You don't see anyone in Europe stepping up to do the job, do you? As much as I don't think it's our job, a lot of what we've done in the ME since the 1950s has ultimately brought about radical Islamic extremists and produced ISIL. Someone has to do something, it won't go away on its own.
 
Cephus said:
Personally, I don't. I don't think we should have been in any of the other ME wars either. However, we all know that Turkey and Saudi Arabia aren't going to do a damn thing about ISIL, any more than Iraq, Iran or Syria would without outside military support. You don't see anyone in Europe stepping up to do the job, do you? As much as I don't think it's our job, a lot of what we've done in the ME since the 1950s has ultimately brought about radical Islamic extremists and produced ISIL. Someone has to do something, it won't go away on its own.
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Ok, I guess your saying that we ****ed the ME up, so it falls on us to fix it. This is a problem for the powers surrounding the problematic State to deal with. They could crush the Islamic State if they see it as a problem.

Overwhelming percentages of Muslims in many countries want Islamic law (sharia) to be the official law of the land, according to a worldwide survey by the Pew Research Center.

How is this in conflict with the Islamic State?
 
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I just heard last night that Turkey won't enter into the fray seriously, till ISIL eliminates the PKK (Kurds), then they'll get rid of ISIL from their area.

What a mess.
 
Misterveritis said:
"True. Obama gave away a victory to appease his base. And because it mirrors his belief that we need to be taken down so we are just like all other nations."

I am generous. You are forgiven. Why, in your opinion, did he cut and run?
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You're opinion is wrong. We don't own Iraq. Iraqis do. It is their charge to defend it. They had the training, the technical support, and the firepower. Iraq isn't defending Iraq. No matter how long we stayed, this was the outcome. It is disenfranchised Sunnis who are fueling this. Without them, Isis is toast. We destabilized and opened the door for this, not to mention that we helped ISIS early on (with republican backing to boot). It has nothing to do with the timely handing over Iraq to Iraq.
 
Montecresto said:
Ok, I guess your saying that we ****ed the ME up, so it falls on us to fix it. This is a problem for the powers surrounding the problematic State to deal with. They could crush the Islamic State if they see it as a problem.

Overwhelming percentages of Muslims in many countries want Islamic law (sharia) to be the official law of the land, according to a worldwide survey by the Pew Research Center.

How is this in conflict with the Islamic State?
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So Isis's policies and practices of beheadings, suicide bombings, destruction of Iraqs and Syrias ancient history and zero tolerance of other religious faiths does not come into conflict with the moral sensebillitys of the Islamic world?
 
Montecresto said:
Ok, I guess your saying that we ****ed the ME up, so it falls on us to fix it. This is a problem for the powers surrounding the problematic State to deal with. They could crush the Islamic State if they see it as a problem.

Overwhelming percentages of Muslims in many countries want Islamic law (sharia) to be the official law of the land, according to a worldwide survey by the Pew Research Center.

How is this in conflict with the Islamic State?
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I don't even know that it can be fixed, the ME is pretty much what Europe was 500 years ago under Christianity. Many extremist Christians were every bit as violent and evil then as many extremist Muslims are today. It took secular society to neuter Christianity into the generally non-violent thing that it is today, it's going to take secular society to do the same thing to Islam in the ME. They don't have that today and that's the problem, they see outside influence from the West as dangerous to their absurd religious beliefs and they're absolutely right, but until they do get their violent religious impulses under control, and it isn't going to come from within, it has to be imposed on them, they will never be more than primitive societies ruled by their religious impulses. I think a lot of people in the West have misunderstood that, it's been so long since Christianity was that kind of a problem that they forget that religion, especially radicalized religion, is immune to reason. You can't talk to them. You can't negotiate with them. You can't compromise with them. The only option they have left is to kill them, but the more of them you kill, the more that you create.

The real issue here is religion, not just Islam, but virtually all religion. Even fundamentalist Christians in America would jump at the chance to jihad if given a chance. It's part of extremist religion almost everywhere. They are just not permitted to do so by secular society which has all the power. They need that in the ME and they're terrified of it actually taking hold.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
So Isis's policies and practices of beheadings, suicide bombings, destruction of Iraqs and Syrias ancient history and zero tolerance of other religious faiths does not come into conflict with the moral sensebillitys of the Islamic world?
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Apparently, there isn't but a few women in the Peshmerga worried about the Islamic State enough to confront them.
 
Cephus said:
I don't even know that it can be fixed, the ME is pretty much what Europe was 500 years ago under Christianity. Many extremist Christians were every bit as violent and evil then as many extremist Muslims are today. It took secular society to neuter Christianity into the generally non-violent thing that it is today, it's going to take secular society to do the same thing to Islam in the ME. They don't have that today and that's the problem, they see outside influence from the West as dangerous to their absurd religious beliefs and they're absolutely right, but until they do get their violent religious impulses under control, and it isn't going to come from within, it has to be imposed on them, they will never be more than primitive societies ruled by their religious impulses. I think a lot of people in the West have misunderstood that, it's been so long since Christianity was that kind of a problem that they forget that religion, especially radicalized religion, is immune to reason. You can't talk to them. You can't negotiate with them. You can't compromise with them. The only option they have left is to kill them, but the more of them you kill, the more that you create.

The real issue here is religion, not just Islam, but virtually all religion. Even fundamentalist Christians in America would jump at the chance to jihad if given a chance. It's part of extremist religion almost everywhere. They are just not permitted to do so by secular society which has all the power. They need that in the ME and they're terrified of it actually taking hold.
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I agree with you.
 
Montecresto said:
I agree with you.
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Unfortunately, we can't just sit around and let the religious crazies go unaddressed, we have to do something, even if it will not ultimately solve the problem and we can't wait for someone else to take action because we all know they won't. The people in the ME who are most directly affected are also following the same religion as the extremists and Europe, which is the next stop for the global jihad are too liberal. They think they can solve the problem with kind words. They're wrong.
 
Cephus said:
Unfortunately, we can't just sit around and let the religious crazies go unaddressed, we have to do something, even if it will not ultimately solve the problem and we can't wait for someone else to take action because we all know they won't. The people in the ME who are most directly affected are also following the same religion as the extremists and Europe, which is the next stop for the global jihad are too liberal. They think they can solve the problem with kind words. They're wrong.
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Containment worked fine, until those forces were removed. Are you arguing that the US needs to deal with this problem?
 
Montecresto said:
Containment worked fine, until those forces were removed. Are you arguing that the US needs to deal with this problem?
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If we don't want more airplanes flown into buildings or someone parking a suitcase nuke next to the White House, yes. Christians were bad enough with swords and spears, radical Muslim extremists can and will have access to modern weaponry and the will to use it.
 
Montecresto said:
Jesus Christ dude! That's what I'm saying, women are fighting the Islamic State. But where's Saudi Arabia with the fourth largest military in the world, and Turkey, with NATO's second largest military? Why are the Peshmerga women about the only ones confronting the Islamic State?
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I misunderstood your post.
 
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