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Parents: Punishing Kids [W:361]

is it ever allowable for a Parent to punish their child with force?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 68.3%

  • No

    Votes: 12 19.0%

  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 8 12.7%
  • Total voters
    63
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
More baseless rhetoric.

I'm special because my family has been concerned about each other for generations!

I'm special because I'm a parent!

When you no longer rely on personal and family greatness to support child abuse and hypocrisy, let me know.
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Its just his way of justifying beating children. Child abusers almost universally believe that their abuse of children is justified.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
When I was growing up I used to watch my mother babysit and over the years I picked up on a great many little things she did to get children to behave. My mother is a gentle woman that approached parenting in an interesting and highly effective way. It is a way that I adopted myself to a large degree when I had a child of my own. I did this because of how gentle and yet extremely efficient it was. Her main focus was understanding and choice. She would only issue punishment in extreme situations, and besides that she would never punish the children, but focused her attention on understanding. She wanted to know why the kids misbehaved and deal with their reasons, as she felt that many times children misbehaved for reasons they feel strongly about and that those reasons should not simply be ignored and thrown to the side as unimportant. She felt that resolving a problem meant dealing with it's causes and it was important to teach children to deal with their problems in better more peaceful means. Children are not from my experience through all the years run by mindless impulses, but the same things we as adults are. We have to treat them with respect and unconditional love and try our best to replace punishments with reason.
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What your mother did is fine. And what she did worked for her. But that's her and not me or my family. We are different, not better, different. And for us and our family we HAVE to have some discipline. There has to be authority imposed because without it our family as children have little in the way of self control. And that is dangerous for their well being. There is no one parenting method that works for all families.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
What your mother did is fine. And what she did worked for her. But that's her and not me or my family. We are different, not better, different. And for us and our family we HAVE to have some discipline. There has to be authority imposed because without it our family as children have little in the way of self control. And that is dangerous for their well being. There is no one parenting method that works for all families.
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No, not every form of discipline will work. Every kid is differnt, but beating children is wrong in every family for every child. Adults who beat children are some of the lowest scum on the planet. If child abuse really is a proud and true tradition in your family like you are proclaiming it is, then your entire family should be locked up.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Kreton said:
No, not every form of discipline will work. Every kid is differnt, but beating children is wrong in every family for every child. Adults who beat children are some of the lowest scum on the planet. If child abuse really is a proud and true tradition in your family like you are proclaiming it is, then your entire family should be locked up.
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Beating really? Where did you read that? Do tell. Also what is your version of beating?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Kreton said:
Yea 2 happy, well adjusted kids who aren't abused because I am not a ****ty parent or human being who thinks its ok to beat on defenseless children.
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Good for you. Now tell me again where I said I beat children or for that matter my family as well.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
Beating really? Where did you read that? Do tell. Also what is your version of beating?
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I've already went over that. But I'll reiterate. If you are leaving marks on your child that last more than a few hours, you are abusing them.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

I voted no by accident. I think it's wrong to hit children, but I don't think it should be illegal. OTOH, if you leave the kid bruised and/or bleeding, that should be illegal. I haven't read the rest of the thread, but AFAIK, it's always been illegal if you go too far. The OP makes it sound like a new law.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
So you believe you own another human being? How does that work exactly?
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The words we have do not unfortunately convey the complexity that is life. Ownership in this case is not outright but such that you own the exclusive privilege and responsibility that it is to raise your children till such they are able to make their way on their own. This exclusive responsibility is such that its almost the equivalent of ownership in the level of freedom of action one could take with ones property. I would want to use the would trusteeship in place of ownership, but that makes it more distant than what it is. We don't have a word I am aware of the conveys accurately the relationship of responsibility and freedom of action that goes with parenting.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
Why protect anyone if that is your mindset? Quite honestly, most things that happen in this world are not my business. Why is it my business if someone is raped or killed? It's not really. Hell, chances are I won't even know about it.
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I give parents the benefit of the doubt. Not for them but for mine and me. I don't want people interfering with how my family parents or I parent.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
The words we have do not unfortunately convey the complexity that is life. Ownership in this case is not outright but such that you own the exclusive privilege and responsibility that it is to raise your children till such they are able to make their way on their own. This exclusive responsibility is such that its almost the equivalent of ownership in the level of freedom of action one could take with ones property. I would want to use the would trusteeship in place of ownership, but that makes it more distant than what it is. We don't have a word I am aware of the conveys accurately the relationship of responsibility and freedom of action that goes with parenting.
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Sure we do. The proper term is guardian. Parents are the defenders and protectors of their children. They have the responsibility to keep them safe and well cared for. A parent that hits their children is failing at their duty to keep their children safe and to protect them from harm. They are someone that is unworthy of the title of guardian. They are like the military man that says he is there to protect and serve, but kills innocents in the field. He is a terrible guardian of men, like a man that hits his children is a terrible guardian of children.
 
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

SouthernDemocrat said:
Be that as it may, you cannot own another person, even your own child. Your kids are your responsibility and you can and should be able to raise them as you wish, but that does not extend so far as physical abuse or neglect.
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The problem lies with the level of responsibility and the freedom required to execute those exclusive responsibilities. You err on one side, I on the other. One mans abuse is another mans discipline. Which man decides. I say the parent. A parent cannot fear to do what they must because they will be judged by society and then they are punished for trying to execute their exclusive responsibility. Especially since there is no consensus on what is or not abuse, let alone broad consensus.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

IMO, the line between abuse is pretty clear.

The punishment has to match the crime.

I catch my daughter climbing on the counter to get to the chocolate in the cabinet? She gets taken down, and talked to in a stern voice, and I laugh about it to the wife later.

I catch my daughter climbing onto a chair to get to the medicine on the top shelf of the hall closet? She get's pulled down, her hand gets slapped, and she gets a stern talking to. The wife and I contemplate moving the medicine.

I catch my daughter spitting food, throwing food, yelling at her brother, etc? She gets time out in the time out chair, staring at a wall for two minutes.

I catch my daughter abusing the dog, as she has done? She gets yelled at, and depending on the level of abuse, three swats on the but.

I catch my daughter swinging a metal pole at her brother's face? She gets yanked into the house, three solid spanks on the but, and gets sent to her room for a while.

She's 5, so lying isn't yet a problem, but as my parents did before me, when that days comes, she'll get the belt.

Punching your child is abuse. Kicking your child is abuse. Locking your child up in a room for hours on end without food or drink is abuse. Things that cause true physical harm is abuse. Bruises, cuts, broken bones, these are the signs of abused children.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
No, it's your own warped (hateful) perspective of the justice system as a means of extracting revenge. Don't blame your own fraudulent interpretation of the justice system on others.
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Our justice system is almost exclusively built around the concept of "extracting revenge," and anyone with eyes can see it. This frankly isn't even up for debate.

What on Earth else could you possibly call locking non-violent offenders away from decades at a time in the name of "zero-tolerance" and similar non-sense? How else could you describe the death penalty?

Hell! We make many offenders basically wear their crimes around their necks for the rest of their lives like an Albatross, in the form of various "registries" for convicted felons.

For all intents and purposes, our current system is all about using government force to intimidate the population into compliance with established social norms.

I'm sorry, but in the manner that the United States approaches this objective, the simple fact of the matter is that our methods are supremely expensive, and inefficient. Nations like Singapore have achieved far better results for the price of nothing more than a few legal fees and a shaft of bamboo.

If you could understand what the justice system really is (a justification of society itself), you'd have a higher level of understanding.
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If you could see the world for what it really is on a de facto basis, rather than imposing abstract ideological constructs upon it, and trying to warp reality to fit your vision, you'd understand that your "level of understanding" is worthless.

Not at all. Where did you get such an idea?
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Am I to assume that you support our current, primarily retributive, system of justice then?

Perhaps second world, but definitely a ****hole.
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Singapore's Per Capita GPD is higher than that of the United States, and, in many regards, their infrastructure is more advanced.

ecofarm said:
Childish BS.
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Historical fact.

Was Rome more prosperous as a republic, or as an autocratic empire?
 
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

KevinKohler said:
IMO, the line between abuse is pretty clear.

The punishment has to match the crime.

I catch my daughter climbing on the counter to get to the chocolate in the cabinet? She gets taken down, and talked to in a stern voice, and I laugh about it to the wife later.

I catch my daughter climbing onto a chair to get to the medicine on the top shelf of the hall closet? She get's pulled down, her hand gets slapped, and she gets a stern talking to. The wife and I contemplate moving the medicine.

I catch my daughter spitting food, throwing food, yelling at her brother, etc? She gets time out in the time out chair, staring at a wall for two minutes.

I catch my daughter abusing the dog, as she has done? She gets yelled at, and depending on the level of abuse, three swats on the but.

I catch my daughter swinging a metal pole at her brother's face? She gets yanked into the house, three solid spanks on the but, and gets sent to her room for a while.

She's 5, so lying isn't yet a problem, but as my parents did before me, when that days comes, she'll get the belt.

Punching your child is abuse. Kicking your child is abuse. Locking your child up in a room for hours on end without food or drink is abuse. Things that cause true physical harm is abuse. Bruises, cuts, broken bones, these are the signs of abused children.
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Well put.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
Our justice system is almost exclusively built around the concept of "extracting revenge," and anyone with eyes can see it.
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That's your misconception and it's not your only one. Good luck figuring out what the justice system is really about.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
That's your misconception and it's not your only one. Good luck figuring out what the justice system is really about.
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Again, here you go favoring your ideological dogma over reality as it can actually be observed to exist.

Stick to the "Ivory Tower," Eco. Your ideas don't amount to a hill of beans anywhere else.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

iacardsfan said:
With the recent news of Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson being charged with child abuse in possibly two separate cases, I thought it would be a good time to pose the question of where to draw the line in punishing a child. It was always acceptable for me to get a spanking or slap when I was out of line as a kid, and that wasn't overly long ago. Now all of a sudden, Mr. Peterson is in hot water as a result. Granted, I was never spanked with a stick, but there were always some interesting objects involved. I just wanted to know if you believe it is allowable for an adult to use force that does not cause permanent damage in order to teach/ discipline their children. Please explain you answer.
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A controlled and carefully administered spanking is a useful tool in the parental toolbox for certain types of serious misbehavior, and is appropriate if applied properly... and sparingly.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
The problem lies with the level of responsibility and the freedom required to execute those exclusive responsibilities. You err on one side, I on the other. One mans abuse is another mans discipline. Which man decides. I say the parent. A parent cannot fear to do what they must because they will be judged by society and then they are punished for trying to execute their exclusive responsibility. Especially since there is no consensus on what is or not abuse, let alone broad consensus.
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There is broad consensus on what constitutes abuse. While spanking is controversial in some circles, just about everyone agrees that if after you spank your kid they look as though they have literally been horsewhipped, that's abuse. If you intentionally injure your kid to the point they need medical treatment, that is abuse. If you starve your kid that is abuse and neglect. If a baby is left days on end in their own feces, that is neglect. So really there is pretty broad agreement on what constitutes abuse and neglect. Its very difficult, as it should be, to take kids out of a home due to abuse and neglect, and if kids are removed from a home you can bet there was a damn good reason for it.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
Again, here you go favoring your ideological dogma over reality as it can actually be observed to exist.
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You are the one substituting your own lust of revenge for what the justice system is really about. In your self-centered, tiny little world view, the justice system is there to harm people for you. That's pathetic.

Stick to the "Ivory Tower," Eco. Your ideas don't amount to a hill of beans anywhere else.
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Typical fundie anti-intellectualism. Tell us again how sociology is a scam.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
Again, here you go favoring your ideological dogma over reality as it can actually be observed to exist.

Stick to the "Ivory Tower," Eco. Your ideas don't amount to a hill of beans anywhere else.
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A hill of beans is actually pretty useful. Beans are a low-cost source of protein, low in fat and salt and a great source of fiber. Really, if his ideas amount to a hill of beans that is saying a lot of his ideas.
 
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